[Level updated!] Factory feedback thread

[party time]

Hey guys, what do you think about Factory, the latest SpeedRunners level?

It's just been updated to address issues discussed in this thread.

[PlaceHolder]

Only played it for less than ten minutes, so my opinion is subject to change.
The first thing I noticed is that there are a lot of switches. Maybe that's for the factory theme.
The second switch seems biased towards the lead player.
Whoever happens to be in the lead in the long, narrow hallway will get a large advantage in lead and will get an item to boot.
Bug report: a rocket shot into the ceiling of the long hall shot me into the bottom one for some reason.
Also, I didn't realize the effective radius of Shockwave was large enough to break the top layer of breakable boxes from that one area.
It was done by using a Golden Hook right before a bot used Shockwave.
I imagine that the Shockwave force works as a gradient.
If this map-specific nitpick is a bother, either make the zero-threshold in the gradient higher, or make the boxes less susceptable to a breeze through solid concrete.
i assume this factory is made out of concrete

The area in the right side is a most tricky maneuver at first. I like what was done with the place.
If everyone spawns right before the grappling area, a newer player who doesn't pull off the grapples will lose.
Getting to the roof of the next part without using boost or Golden Hook should deserve a medal.
More often than not, a bot will boost into his death in this area. Not a big issue.

When those four layers of breakable boxes are gone, I don't see a reason to ever take the top path.
Those that take the breakable path will be so far ahead in the long, narrow hallway that the ones that took the 'normal' path might as well be out.

The risk-reward for the last switch is a bit extreme.
Maybe it's due to my lack of experience with the map, but I never closed the switch in time before a bot passed it.
This map is definitely not for the newbies.

[jeff]

I got the last switch cut-off a few times, but only when I had a pretty big lead already.

I don't like the switches in the narrow tunnel, they just give a big advantage to the player in first for no reason. This is especially problematic right at the beginning of the match, since the players who start off in front can get the first two weapons and (depending on what weapon it is) use them to extend their lead enough that they get the advantage from the switch.

[「Luckless」]

Man, you guys had me excited when I thought it was the level I had made a while back because of the name and everything. (http://i.imgur.com/LtRgdUP.gif)
I have to spend more time on this to get to know it a bit better. It's confusing at first.

[jeff]

I've figured out how to get on the roof consistently. You have to take the wall-jump route, then do an extra wall jump so you get high up on the right wall. From here you can jump across to the left and get a really fast swing which gives you enough momentum to get onto the roof. No boost needed. It's a pretty well-balanced risk/reward since it's possible to accidentally swing into the spikes.

[Casper van Est]

@Brad, yeah I know, sorry! :D

[PlaceHolder]

Casper van Est님이 먼저 게시:

@Brad, yeah I know, sorry! :D

You seem pretty happy for a sorry person.
Unless that is one of those 'sheepish' smiles.

I was actually thinking, "Wasn't there a fan map with the same name?"
But with only be so many generic location names to work with, 'Factory' is bound to come up.
Not that generic is bad.
I mean, I'm sure maps called, 'Restaurant', 'Marina', 'Tower', or 'Stripper's Club' can each have unique flavors to them.
I'd actually like to see a 'Tower' map. Silo sort of fits the card, but not specifically.

I have a feeling that second switch in the new map is going to be a hot topic of the week.

[「Luckless」]

Casper van Est님이 먼저 게시:

@Brad, yeah I know, sorry! :D

It's all good, man :D Maybe next time :P

[Deon]

My only real concern is the long tunnel at the beginning is overly punishing simply for being more than half of a second behind. Right at the start of round one the first set of items will be rewarded to the first two players, then the second switch will increase their lead further and give them another extra item. This has the curious side effect of giving whichever players happen to be in slots three and four an advantage as they spawn with enough of a lead to take advantage of this.

Otherwise most of the paths seem relatively balanced, except for maybe the ending path after the blocks have been broken. I've only played through a handful of times but there seems to be a lot of room for people on the upper path being knocked out just because the camera isn't tall enough.

jeff님이 먼저 게시:

You have to take the wall-jump route, then do an extra wall jump so you get high up on the right wall. From here you can jump across to the left and get a really fast swing which gives you enough momentum to get onto the roof. No boost needed. It's a pretty well-balanced risk/reward since it's possible to accidentally swing into the spikes.

I'm a bit skeptical on the risk/reward myself, since the time added through this whole process would possibly negate time saved on the upper path vs. just hitting the grapples, with added risk of hitting the spikes. Seems a little more risky for a questionable reward but maybe we'll see once we play it more.

Overall the first tunnel is my problem area, but otherwise it gets a thumbs up from me.

[heroo]

PlaceHolder's thorough post pretty much summed up my feelings, but wanna touch up on some stuff:

The second switch is wayyy too biased for the lead player, it's very hard for the other players to recover once they fall down into the pit.

PlaceHolder님이 먼저 게시:

The risk-reward for the last switch is a bit extreme.
Maybe it's due to my lack of experience with the map, but I never closed the switch in time before a bot passed it.

I agree, the pathway itself is a bit lengthy and could only easily be covered while using a boost.

[SBC saboya]

Like people said, it seems wait too lenient for the lead player. While I don't think 1st place should be punished for leading (as in, making the switch benefit the player behind him), it's tough when you have sooo many switches that benefit the leader.

[jeff]

Deon님이 먼저 게시:

jeff님이 먼저 게시:

You have to take the wall-jump route, then do an extra wall jump so you get high up on the right wall. From here you can jump across to the left and get a really fast swing which gives you enough momentum to get onto the roof. No boost needed. It's a pretty well-balanced risk/reward since it's possible to accidentally swing into the spikes.

I'm a bit skeptical on the risk/reward myself, since the time added through this whole process would possibly negate time saved on the upper path vs. just hitting the grapples, with added risk of hitting the spikes. Seems a little more risky for a questionable reward but maybe we'll see once we play it more.

Now that I've played it in a real match I'd tend to agree. The grapple route is much faster than I thought. The roof is balanced relative to the normal walljump route but not the grapple route. Also the lead detection is a bit harsh on the walljumpers when there are walljumpers and grapplers.

[werdmath]

Most of the main issues have already been touched on.
That first tunnel double gate is to harsh on the people down below, maybe move the bottom gate back an inch or two.

Grapple vs walljump. I've found grappling to be much faster and like jeff said the lead detection is harsh for the people who walljump.

The area with 4 break away block lines isn't that much faster to drop down than to just go up and over. so unless you're in the lead or have some boost saved for it you're smarting going over it.
The rocket launcher down there has been pretty useless. I've never seen it actually hit anyone, or even come close. I would straighten out that tunnel and replace the rocket with a laser.

The far left upper switch is only viable with a large lead, it takes to long to navigate. So the people you block may end up ahead of you if you don't have boost to make the switchbacks.


Overall though it is a fun level, and with a little tweaking I could see it becoming my new favorite level.

[Baq]

i think the 1st (?) switch(the double switch) is a little bit to close to the trap, since if the leading player just has a little advantage, he will easily be able to pull it off and DESTROY the other player. i honestly thinks it needs a fix. i really like the grappling part with the spike wall, which has a high risk vs reward factor of hugging that spikey wall :D

I also think the 2 extra parts/routes are unnecessary and dont bring any advantage at all. actually they seem to bring disadvantage. not sure what you could do about that tho...

all around a good concept, way better than the themepark, which just seems like the worst map in the game to me.

Really nice to see that you guys are updating the game so often tho :)

Keep it going and, keep making maps/weapons ! :)

[CanadianTick]

I hate it. If you have the slightest lead at all, you hit the switches and pretty much win. There's nothing anyone can do.

[Casper van Est]

Alright, I've made some tweaks to the level, which I hope you'll all appreciate.

- The "shortcut" section caused by removing those falltiles is gone now. It was a difficult section to balance, because there's not a lot of space there. Additionally, the rocket launcher didn't do much and (most importantly) opening up that section by running over those tiles wasn't actually all that fun. Instead the area is now a small breather from all the other jam-packed areas.
- The long corridor has been tweaked a lot, making the bottom route a lot easier and faster, which should make for interesting mini-races, as far as we can judge from our playtest session. Any feedback on this corridor is still welcome though!
- The top route at the leftmost section of the map has been altered to be a bit quicker, making it a more viable, but still risky, option to expand your lead.

I'm looking forward to hearing feedback on these changes!