Who designed this Save system?? is it a console thing?

[Brogan]

I just lost literally 7 hours of gameplay because of this travesty of a system. Why does one slot overwrite another one? Why does the Quick Load button not work in tandem with the Quick Save button, so that regardless of the game autosaving for you, you can still go back to when you hit quick save??

Hello? That is a dynamic that has been in place, and worked perfectly, for at least 20 years!

Is this because of some lazy console design characteristic? Seriously, I tried to use the multiple slots they provide, but even if you have multiple saves at specific times, once you load ANY save that's farther along (OR SEVEN HOURS BEHIND) in the game, YOU LOSE EVERYTHING previous to it? How is that possible?

[OJ191]

Originally posted by Wurm65:

Originally posted by OJ191:

Because you can't replay levels like in Thief (and even if you could it would be kinda pointless unless it somehow retconned your new choices into the storyline)

Regardless, using just one slot has always been like playing Russian Roulette.

I erase all my manual saves at the start of every chapter and start again from slot one. I average around 14 saves per chapter.

Look this isn't an RPG where you can mess up whole decision trees theres nothing that I can think of that you can "screw up" that can't be fixed with under half an hour of gameplay even if you only manual save at the start of each chapter.

I understand some people are OCD about saving and it would be nice for you to have that option, but it is simply not necessary.

[*Evil Vasile]

Originally posted by OJ191:

Manual save: Creates a Manual Save
Checkpoint Save: Creates a checkpoint save, also known as autosave
Closet Save: Overwrites Checkpoint Save
Quick Save: Creates a quick save
Manual Load: Can load manual, checkpoint, or quick saves.
Quick Load: Loads the most recent save (not sure if this includes manual saves but if you have a more recent checkpoint save than your last quick save it will load this instead).

I think Quick Load always loads the latest Quick Save or maybe latest manual save?...

[rider]

Quick Load loads always only the latest save, no matter was it manual or qs.

[Wurm65]

Originally posted by OJ191:

it would be nice for you to have that option.

You do have that option, that is my point entirely. And since you have that option, there is no need for someone to come in here complaining about losing game progress if they choose not to use it.

[*Evil Vasile]

Originally posted by Dr.ξινός:

Quick Load loads always only the latest save, no matter was it manual or qs.

It most certainly does not. Was continuing another playthrough, and my latest save was a checkpoint after exiting the Burrick Tavern. When I hit F9 for quick load, it instead loaded me at the clock tower after I had just finished chapter 2.

Checking the auto-save slot, The Clocktower is my last manual save, while Stonemarket is my last checkpoint save.

[rider]

Originally posted by Elisav the Evil:

Originally posted by Dr.ξινός:

Quick Load loads always only the latest save, no matter was it manual or qs.

It most certainly does not. Was continuing another playthrough, and my latest save was a checkpoint after exiting the Burrick Tavern. When I hit F9 for quick load, it instead loaded me at the clock tower after I had just finished chapter 2.

Checking the auto-save slot, The Clocktower is my last manual save, while Stonemarket is my last checkpoint save.

It most certainly does for me and many others who have checked this at least.

About that F9 system I dunno if it somehow alters loading slot order or something, but I always get that save loaded which is the most recent, be it a manual or qs. There were few bug reports though, where people encountered some issues with save slotting and/or data replicating whatsoever. Never read them that carefully so I don't remember.

But then again, dunno really what's the deal with them then.

[*Evil Vasile]

Hmm, perhaps there is some option that configures how quickload works that we have missed? Or I guess it might be a bug that it behaves differently...

[lehipi]

:O You all have Quick Save??!? A swift pressing of the usual F-buttons (F5 and F9) on my PC resulted in nothing, so my "Quick Save" is a Manual Save, since I don't like the timing of the Cabinet Saves inside the gameplay. The "Reload last save"-option always gives me the last save, no matter if it is a Manual, Cabinet or Checkpoint Save, but choosing the "Load"-option gives me the choice of the last save of all types.

[Moon Punisher]

Originally posted by lehipi:

:O You all have Quick Save??!? A swift pressing of the usual F-buttons (F5 and F9) on my PC resulted in nothing, so my "Quick Save" is a Manual Save, since I don't like the timing of the Cabinet Saves inside the gameplay. The "Reload last save"-option always gives me the last save, no matter if it is a Manual, Cabinet or Checkpoint Save, but choosing the "Load"-option gives me the choice of the last save of all types.

Yeap everyone does , but it is hard to notice.

Just look at the top left corner when you press f5 , it should show it saving the game.

[OJ191]

Originally posted by Wurm65:

Originally posted by OJ191:

it would be nice for you to have that option.

You do have that option, that is my point entirely. And since you have that option, there is no need for someone to come in here complaining about losing game progress if they choose not to use it.

I was referring to the option of having dozens of manual saves. Personally I don't see how you can ever need more than 3 saves, but some people would rather that so eh.

• one for saving at major checkpoints in case something cataclysmic happens and both your checkpoint and in-action saves get messed up somehow
  
• one for saving at checkpoints in case the in-action save gets messed up
  
• one for saves in the action in case you do something wrong and need to redo it quickly. These are the easiest to accidentally mess up, hence why you have checkpoint saves

Now you can do that with all manual saves in the case of games without autosaving/quicksaving, or you can do it with a combination of manual/auto/quick depending on what the game has. But regardless of methodology behind the saves its a very robust system which I have yet to ever fail me.

[xxcoy]

Originally posted by bloodraven43:

it dosent....pc games have always been like this...you have an auto-save that overwrites itself and a manual save....what is the probllem with that...unreal...lol

Not true. Not at all for Thief and older pc games. Did start with the growing numbers of console adaptions.
The save system of thief on pc was pretty straightforward. No autosaves, except for one at level start.
Apart from that you could save anytime and anywhere - and if you'd reload, you'd not end up at a completely different point because your quick save was deleted for some strange reason, your manual save by options menu - hours ago - was the only one left and the last checkpoint happened to be *exactly after* the scene you wanted to replay.

The savegame-system is a complicated nuissance in "nuthief", especially if you play ghost with no-kill, no-knock-down - which means trying a lot of different approaches in some situations to get what you want - and therefore a lot of reloading.

[kmanitou81]

BLarM COrNsole!

[Irx]

Well, at least we can save anywhere, at this day and age where dev brains have long been infected by consoletardism it's all we can hope for.

[‒| Kim |‒]

Just to jump across the quicksave dilemma:

Skyrim/Oblivion/Morrowind's method of quicksaving event saved the mod data. I am not sure how the data format worked in the TES engine but I think it saved all the stats of your character and the scripts/assets in the location and if you went to that location with the changed assets it would bomb out. As much as people would like to call out Elder Scrolls / TES Engine for being buggy. Still, the previous saved game systems from older PC gamers "just 'worked'."

Same with the saving in the earlier Thief games (after patch 1.1? 1.2? in the Dark Project from rough memory) as well . You just had manual-saving and quick saving and that was it. It didn't need chapter saves, auto saves. You knew where you stood. Not what you had to choose.

It was very important that a developer back then got the conditions and the agreements right for the player so the player wasn't confused. These days, however, sometimes developers get a bit mixed up when they still try to attune themselves to agreed conventions wiht players. They keep forgetting that even if design decisions change there are still players who've been around here 10 or 20 years and these players are used to the agree upon conventions. It is also the same conventions that induct newer players into the gaming experience.

[‒| Kim |‒]

What's more one of the other unsung agreed upon conventions with players is to have the latest autosave at the top of the save function menu or have the latest quick save at the top of the function menu and a date and time following thusly and clearly label the saves as "AUTOSAVE", "MANUAL SAVE" and "QUICK SAVE" and not labelling them appropriately to the function is an absolute disgrace in gaming. Just like not having the function to change the field of view in first person shooter games or even third person games.

Having saves inside saves inside saves games or a cluster ♥♥♥♥ in the menu is a disgrace and what's more having a menu with 10 presses/clicks just to get a single option is ALSO a disgrace because the options can be cycled. Another disgraceful thing for game developers to do is have sliders without numbers on them or the 'programming measurement'. For example having volume sliders without numbers from 1 to 100. Clearly communicating that the volume is a percentage of 100.

It's a really simple thing. But some developers just continue to forget all these little agreed upon conventions and if a developer doesn't do that communicating with the player via the User Interface what an option does, then WHY ARE YOU EVEN DEVELOPING?.