RimWorld

RimWorld

Vanilla Factions Expanded - Mechanoids
GenericMeme Dec 22, 2020 @ 3:53pm
Total War mechanic
To quote from my original comment -

'I really dislike the idea of the total war mechanic, I get that in the base game you're supposed to venture out to complete quests and what not but it seems like it would become problematic when the world is of a larger size and I am essentially forced to download another mod so I can reach the crashed ships or have my colony destroyed. I understand it's tied into the core features but I feel a good middle ground would be to make it so once you hit a certain goal whether it be a technology or wealth level then the whole mechanoid upgrade event will fire every so often. And with my mod list being how it is, having this being forced as a major focus for my runs is annoying to balance with other mods that demand focus.'
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Showing 1-15 of 77 comments
GenericMeme Dec 22, 2020 @ 3:56pm 
I am in the process of playing this mod myself and have yet to experience everything first hand but I expect that the Total War mechanic will operate as follows, a random ship will drop randomly on the world and if you do not defeat it but instead allow them to accumulate the faction will grow stronger and the raids will become larger and more powerful overtime.

Surface level my main problems with this are as follows

- The ships can land generally anywhere on the map (which makes sense) but I can't venture out and destroy them unless I get SRTS ships and even then building one that could make the venture would be time consuming so more ships would land.
- Since it is no longer tied to wealth I must raise my wealth to have enough firepower to defeat such ships causing any faction raids to subsequently be larger as well. This makes playing on harder difficulties even more difficult to a point of fault.
- I am not experienced with just how much more power each ship will add nor how often they land but surface level I expect that defeating these ships will become a priority for my colonies which would make balancing this with other DLC sized mods that also command attention be rather difficult
Last edited by GenericMeme; Dec 22, 2020 @ 4:03pm
JC Dec 22, 2020 @ 4:00pm 
he can you help me play idk how i need 1.0 mod but i play on 1.2

Oskar Potocki  [developer] Dec 22, 2020 @ 4:04pm 
Alright. And this is how vanilla game works:

The longer you play, the more wealth you have, the larger raids will come. To reduce raid size you need to destroy your own wealth or kill off your own people.

This is how total war works, bear in mind it only applies to our mechanoid faction:
Over time, mechanoid bases appear on the map at a steady interval. Each ship adds X amount of points to raid size. To reduce raid size you need to destroy the ships. Remember: the new mechanoids don’t scale with wealth at all - so if you have a mega base and a 100 pawns, as long as there is no ships on the map (for example you destroyed them all), the faction will not raid you, at all.

We made sure ships landing raid power increase is roughly the same as the wealth acquisition raid power increase on normal vanilla faction, except our new total war mechanic allows you to reduce their raid power by fighting them instead of forcing you to cheese it by burning your sculptures and banishing colonists.

TL;DR:
Vanilla faction increases raid power using wealth. Total war mechanoids increase in raid power based on the amount of ships that SLOWLY land on your planet. By destroying ships, you knock down their raid size, or even remove their raid size altogether.

Does that clear it up?
Oskar Potocki  [developer] Dec 22, 2020 @ 4:07pm 
On top of that, the ships can only land up to 90 tiles away from you. Drop pod can take you 66 tiles far.

Around 5 ships can land in a year.

Most of them are frigates which add 2 scythers worth of points to their raid power.
GenericMeme Dec 22, 2020 @ 4:07pm 
Originally posted by Oskar Potocki:
Alright. And this is how vanilla game works:

The longer you play, the more wealth you have, the larger raids will come. To reduce raid size you need to destroy your own wealth or kill off your own people.

This is how total war works, bear in mind it only applies to our mechanoid faction:
Over time, mechanoid bases appear on the map at a steady interval. Each ship adds X amount of points to raid size. To reduce raid size you need to destroy the ships. Remember: the new mechanoids don’t scale with wealth at all - so if you have a mega base and a 100 pawns, as long as there is no ships on the map (for example you destroyed them all), the faction will not raid you, at all.

We made sure ships landing raid power increase is roughly the same as the wealth acquisition raid power increase on normal vanilla faction, except our new total war mechanic allows you to reduce their raid power by fighting them instead of forcing you to cheese it by burning your sculptures and banishing colonists.

TL;DR:
Vanilla faction increases raid power using wealth. Total war mechanoids increase in raid power based on the amount of ships that SLOWLY land on your planet. By destroying ships, you knock down their raid size, or even remove their raid size altogether.

Does that clear it up?
I edited my post I assume as you were typing this up, sorry.

Yeah I assumed this was how it worked and I'm in the process of experiencing it first hand so I'll have a feel for how balanced this is so I could be jumping the gun on this mechanic but surface level it sounds unappealing to a degree imo
Last edited by GenericMeme; Dec 22, 2020 @ 4:10pm
Naxdar Dec 22, 2020 @ 4:16pm 
I would like there to be an option to "contain" the total war mechanic and not allow ships to land if the additional raid points would exceed X% of the (largest) colony's current raid points.
That would still give an incentive to go out and destroy the ships without making the game feel like a race against time.
GenericMeme Dec 22, 2020 @ 4:22pm 
Originally posted by Naxdar:
I would like there to be an option to "contain" the total war mechanic and not allow ships to land if the additional raid points would exceed X% of the (largest) colony's current raid points.
That would still give an incentive to go out and destroy the ships without making the game feel like a race against time.
I like this suggestion a lot, you could cap the amount of ships/raid points relative to the colonies wealth
Toast Dec 22, 2020 @ 4:23pm 
Every ship landing is an incident. If you don't want to deal with the mechanoid faction, you can disable them all. It gets a lot harder to get mechanoid components, but there's still the factory quests, vanilla mechanoid clusters, and a mod that makes them craftable. I agree that an option to just do this in the mod settings would be nice, but I can see why the mechanoid faction mod wouldn't want a toggle on said mechanoid faction.
Oskar Potocki  [developer] Dec 22, 2020 @ 4:23pm 
You can disable specific ships from landing using scenario editor.
GenericMeme Dec 22, 2020 @ 4:37pm 
I do feel like a major flaw is when you play on harder difficulties it essentially forces you to accumulate wealth to defeat the ships
Oskar Potocki  [developer] Dec 22, 2020 @ 5:03pm 
Accumulating wealth is the purpose of this game at the end of the day. And if it isn't for you, then don't subscribe to this mod. You know what it comes with, it's all written on the box.
GenericMeme Dec 22, 2020 @ 5:11pm 
Originally posted by Oskar Potocki:
Accumulating wealth is the purpose of this game at the end of the day. And if it isn't for you, then don't subscribe to this mod. You know what it comes with, it's all written on the box.
Fair enough
blitz_liar Dec 22, 2020 @ 5:58pm 
My only feedback on this would be to delay the start of the Total War/mechanoid invasion until a certain wealth level is reached. Let the player get their feet on the ground before introducing this new threat. I tried the new scenario and by day 91 I have had 1 carrier, 1 troopship, 2 Cruiser, 2 destroyers, and 6 frigates land. I checked out a frigate and I don't think that my 8 pawn colony could even take out the 10 defenders for the smallest ship. Based on the mod's description of the raid I will face, I don't foresee any chance the first time they come my way.

Cassie 2x pop (mod), 155% scaling. ~100k wealth currently.
Last edited by blitz_liar; Dec 22, 2020 @ 6:00pm
Ham Dec 22, 2020 @ 6:42pm 
Its an interesting concept, one I think could work well for the Insectoids faction. They start with *few* bases but branch out more and more.

Sadly I'm encountering similar bugs to those already being discussed in the report thread, I tried dumping a hugslib log a couple of times and my game just crashed both time so nothing I can add to that. (my pc is garbage yes)
Last edited by Ham; Dec 22, 2020 @ 6:42pm
GenericMeme Dec 22, 2020 @ 10:42pm 
Originally posted by blitz_liar:
My only feedback on this would be to delay the start of the Total War/mechanoid invasion until a certain wealth level is reached. Let the player get their feet on the ground before introducing this new threat. I tried the new scenario and by day 91 I have had 1 carrier, 1 troopship, 2 Cruiser, 2 destroyers, and 6 frigates land. I checked out a frigate and I don't think that my 8 pawn colony could even take out the 10 defenders for the smallest ship. Based on the mod's description of the raid I will face, I don't foresee any chance the first time they come my way.

Cassie 2x pop (mod), 155% scaling. ~100k wealth currently.
This is what I was talking about, I feel not having this mod take wealth into the equation somewhere is a flaw. Colony wealth should cap the ship count to some degree or like you mentioned don't begin the ships until a certain point or make it once you hit a certain point of wealth the ship count is no longer limited
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