There are no events for that yet.

Thanks for answering! Are you planning on working on that? Maybe I could help you with that if you are interested!

Yes, I want it to be possible for the modern Spanish cultures to appear. Ideas on how those events would work are welcome.

Originally posted by qweytr:

Yes, I want it to be possible for the modern Spanish cultures to appear. Ideas on how those events would work are welcome.

Historically Spain was taken over by first the Vandals then the Visigoths, but I don't think we need to be so specific. There are already events to convert Roman culture which would be present in the territory to Germanic culture I think, so that's fine. Probably the best way to have the events work is if Germanic provinces are conquered by an Islamic nation they convert cultures to appropriate Spanish/Portuguese/etc cultures. Maybe work down a list, so that one Germanic culture will turn to one Iberian culture. In the historical case Spanish to Visigoths and Portuguese to Suebi. Thinking about it that isn't a perfect solution, since in fact what largely happened was that the Germanics were driven north, then they conquered Islamic territory and their culture spread, emerging from the mix of Germanic, existing Latin, and Arabic influences. Maybe if a Germanic nation in the territory of Iberia is neighbouring a country with Islam as its religion.

Originally posted by Firesoul:

Originally posted by qweytr:

Yes, I want it to be possible for the modern Spanish cultures to appear. Ideas on how those events would work are welcome.

Historically Spain was taken over by first the Vandals then the Visigoths, but I don't think we need to be so specific. There are already events to convert Roman culture which would be present in the territory to Germanic culture I think, so that's fine. Probably the best way to have the events work is if Germanic provinces are conquered by an Islamic nation they convert cultures to appropriate Spanish/Portuguese/etc cultures. Maybe work down a list, so that one Germanic culture will turn to one Iberian culture. In the historical case Spanish to Visigoths and Portuguese to Suebi. Thinking about it that isn't a perfect solution, since in fact what largely happened was that the Germanics were driven north, then they conquered Islamic territory and their culture spread, emerging from the mix of Germanic, existing Latin, and Arabic influences. Maybe if a Germanic nation in the territory of Iberia is neighbouring a country with Islam as its religion.

Currently it's extremely unlikely for Islam to spread to Iberia, so I wouldn't like to tie the appearance of the Spanish cultures to that. At least not unless I first make it more likely for the Caliphate to conquer Iberia.

Originally posted by qweytr:

Currently it's extremely unlikely for Islam to spread to Iberia, so I wouldn't like to tie the appearance of the Spanish cultures to that. At least not unless I first make it more likely for the Caliphate to conquer Iberia.

Then our priority should be to help the Caliphate to conquer Iberia, Spanish and Portuguese culture simply wouldn't have appeared without Arabic influences.

Well, I think it might be far more easier to make something like:

If a province has galician culture (except galicia itself) it could change to leonese or portuguese depending on the region.

The same way for celtiberian to castillian/aragonese depending on the region and for iberian to catalan in the proper area.

All of them in case that the owner is a kingdom, and it's galicia, leon, castille, aragon, navarra or it has one of the iberian cultures as primary culture.

That will propiciate the appearing of andalusian culture just in case the owner is from arabic culture.

I think it might be an idea close to what I saw in the mod files.

And then maybe an event that makes asturian people revolt against either visigoths or arabs or whoever is the owner, so that would make in a longrun game the chance to get the kingdoms in iberia instead of just turning it into Spain that wasn't born until 16th century.

Originally posted by Salinevsky:

Well, I think it might be far more easier to make something like:

If a province has galician culture (except galicia itself) it could change to leonese or portuguese depending on the region.

The same way for celtiberian to castillian/aragonese depending on the region and for iberian to catalan in the proper area.

All of them in case that the owner is a kingdom, and it's galicia, leon, castille, aragon, navarra or it has one of the iberian cultures as primary culture.

That will propiciate the appearing of andalusian culture just in case the owner is from arabic culture.

I think it might be an idea close to what I saw in the mod files.

And then maybe an event that makes asturian people revolt against either visigoths or arabs or whoever is the owner, so that would make in a longrun game the chance to get the kingdoms in iberia instead of just turning it into Spain that wasn't born until 16th century.

That wouldn't be historical however. If Spanish/Portuguese culture wouldn't have appeared historically given the history ingame then it shouldn't in the mod either.

Well, I don't think anyone can precisely determinate when any of the iberian cultures emerged because they are a mix of lots of cultures, mainly roman/latin and iberian tribes that came from celtic or phoenic culture, mixed with arabs in the south and east mostly and a bit of visigothic.

So I don't understand exactly what you mean with not historical.

Also if you want to be historically accurate you shouldn't speak about "Spanish" as if all people in the Spanish part of iberia has the same culture because that really would be historically inaccurate.

In the end it's the modders call, I'm just trying to adjust the posibilities of the game to make it playable and fun.

Originally posted by Firesoul:

Then our priority should be to help the Caliphate to conquer Iberia, Spanish and Portuguese culture simply wouldn't have appeared without Arabic influences.

Definetly, the Caliphate still almost never expands as much as it did historically and most of the time just stays in Arabia. The problem seems to mostly be with the AI now as it simply doesn't understand that it has massive buffs...I have no clue how one would fix that though, maybe some event that gives them cores on neighbouring countries?

Originally posted by Salinevsky:

Well, I don't think anyone can precisely determinate when any of the iberian cultures emerged because they are a mix of lots of cultures, mainly roman/latin and iberian tribes that came from celtic or phoenic culture, mixed with arabs in the south and east mostly and a bit of visigothic.

So I don't understand exactly what you mean with not historical.

Also if you want to be historically accurate you shouldn't speak about "Spanish" as if all people in the Spanish part of iberia has the same culture because that really would be historically inaccurate.

In the end it's the modders call, I'm just trying to adjust the posibilities of the game to make it playable and fun.

Sometimes I forget that in English Spanish is used both for what I would call castilliano, and what I would call español. To clarify, by saying Spanish in this context I'm using it as a blanket term to refer to Aragonese, Castillians, Galicians, Catalans, Andalucians, Cantabrians, everyone in Spain.

Also, Arabic influence is absolutely massive on Spanish, and not just in the south and east. For example all the time Spanish speakers say 'Ojála', which means 'if Allah wills it'. I could also make a list of the words in Spanish that come from Arabic, but it would take forever, there's at least as many words from Arabic in Spanish as from Latin. This is what I mean by these cultures not emerging if not for the Arabic influence.

Originally posted by Firesoul:

Originally posted by Salinevsky:

Well, I don't think anyone can precisely determinate when any of the iberian cultures emerged because they are a mix of lots of cultures, mainly roman/latin and iberian tribes that came from celtic or phoenic culture, mixed with arabs in the south and east mostly and a bit of visigothic.

So I don't understand exactly what you mean with not historical.

Also if you want to be historically accurate you shouldn't speak about "Spanish" as if all people in the Spanish part of iberia has the same culture because that really would be historically inaccurate.

In the end it's the modders call, I'm just trying to adjust the posibilities of the game to make it playable and fun.

Sometimes I forget that in English Spanish is used both for what I would call castilliano, and what I would call español. To clarify, by saying Spanish in this context I'm using it as a blanket term to refer to Aragonese, Castillians, Galicians, Catalans, Andalucians, Cantabrians, everyone in Spain.

Also, Arabic influence is absolutely massive on Spanish, and not just in the south and east. For example all the time Spanish speakers say 'Ojála', which means 'if Allah wills it'. I could also make a list of the words in Spanish that come from Arabic, but it would take forever, there's at least as many words from Arabic in Spanish as from Latin. This is what I mean by these cultures not emerging if not for the Arabic influence.

While Arabic culture has had a significant impact on the historical Spanish cultures, that doesn't mean that the Spanish cultures that appear in alternative histories have to be like that.

Originally posted by qweytr:

While Arabic culture has had a significant impact on the historical Spanish cultures, that doesn't mean that the Spanish cultures that appear in alternative histories have to be like that.

Then what is the best solution? Railroading Spanish culture doesn't seem a good way of going about it, especially if we have the situation say where the player plays as a Germanic tribe from the beginning, conquers all the tribes on Rome's borders, then in the migrations grabs France and Spain, maybe Italy too. Would we have that the player looks on helplessly as potentially three cultures start spreading through their empire for no reason, none of them in their own culture group or in each others culture group?

Well, I should have pointed first that I'm Spanish, but not castillian, leonese (from Salamanca exactly).

Starting from there I can tell you that all the regions in the Kingdom of Leon (Reinu de Llión), aswell as the regions in castille north from the Tajo river were repopulated with people from galicia, asturias, leon and cantabria, so the influence of arabs in that case is not as much as you may think.

But for example in the Crown of Aragon that didn't happen. It was more usuall to make the arabs force-convert to christian religion, that created the moriscos and mozarabes in that regions of the east. They were tolerated, in Castille, they usually were expelled or marginated.

The people in our country that was more influenced by the arabs were the Andalusian people as the south of Extremadura and regions like Murcia.

It's true that we have a lot of words from arabic language (ojala, almohada, alhambra, acequia, etc), but that doesn't mean it influenced all of our culture.

For example:

Leonese culture comes from a mix of asturian, galician and celtiberian tribes aswell as roman.

Castillian culture is more or less the same; true that they had the most known kingdom at the end, but you should know that the first kingdom in iberia after the arabs was asturias, then leon, an from leon came castille. Later the fights between brothers made castille own leon and galicia, starting the reconquest against the taifas from the Tajo river to the south.

People from the east, specially catalonia, had a great frankish influence because they were the "mark" that was supossed to prevent invasions of france from the moors.

In fact, catalan language is a "mix" of spanish (castillian) and french, but old castillian, not new castillian spanish.

Also Portugal excinded from Leon in the peace of Zamora in 1043 or something like that, and their culture and language are a mix of leonese, galician and their one development.

So, putting all toghether:

-I'ts true that we are influenced by arabs, but more in language and art (mozarabe,moriscos) from all the arabs that were forced to convert than in other aspects, were we are pretty catholic.

- Not all the cultures in the iberian peninsula have the same root, not even close in lots of cases (like leonese and andalusian cultures that have almost nothing to do one with another)

In conclusion:

I agree with qweytr about the appearing of the cultures, arab culture is not necessary to form the others except maybe for andalusian culture.

Will be nice to have iberia occupied by arabs but I don't think we should tie that to the culture because in the end its a game and someone like me would like to revolt against Rome (cantabrian, basque people) and to be able to form a modern Spain within time.

And no, there is not as much arab rooted word as latin, trust me :D

Originally posted by Firesoul:

Originally posted by qweytr:

While Arabic culture has had a significant impact on the historical Spanish cultures, that doesn't mean that the Spanish cultures that appear in alternative histories have to be like that.

Then what is the best solution? Railroading Spanish culture doesn't seem a good way of going about it, especially if we have the situation say where the player plays as a Germanic tribe from the beginning, conquers all the tribes on Rome's borders, then in the migrations grabs France and Spain, maybe Italy too. Would we have that the player looks on helplessly as potentially three cultures start spreading through their empire for no reason, none of them in their own culture group or in each others culture group?

We can just adjust that so in case the government has not visigothic culture or something like that then it wouldn't pop.