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Door Kickers
mrazael 21 czerwca 2013 o 18:30
Veteran of Rainbow Six -series
I put my small thoughts on comment at first but I though I'd put more effort into it in here since I really want this game to shine and stand out from others.

Disclaimer: I've had my fair share of Close Quarter Combat -training in military. I love this game.

I only downloaded the free alpha after watching god TB's video about it (bless that man), and managed to complete all 9 missions, even though not all with 3 stars. The beach one was by far the hardest mission, and silliest one perhaps the "Solomon Islands Embassy" one.

Problem with the latter was that you could just hard push the assault by having your south team go straight into the trigger-happy man's room and rescue hostage in there, which after you were able to continue with the pace you wanted. Putting a timer in here (think of it as a deadline until they start shooting) would be great.
Also problem with these situations is the lack of suppressed weaponry; the reason why spec ops and some special police forces use suppressed weapons is not because it's cool and ninja-like but because they are darned effective and save multiple lives. Stealth is a great weapon, but at the moment the game doesn't even give option to use it.
Speed is the greatest key when clearing rooms in CQC, but when your enemy doesn't even know that you're there with you doubletapping the heads in question with your suppressed weapons, you get a lot more room and maneuverability to execute different strategies.

To make the game in your favor there could be few things that you could do to help out:

  • (Suppressed weapons)
  • Capability to cut off electricity from building just before takedown or during takedown for small amount of time (+ NVG goggles)
  • If we're liberating a bank etc which has cameras, let us access to their system (in case the opposition hasn't taken them out) to give intel before assault.
  • As in Rainbow Six (I'm sorry if this is implemented already), if we're doing a full on assault with no hostages, let us carry heavier armor which is capable on making the guys survive longer, in cost of reduced speed and agility.

    To make things work against you:

  • Bad guys communicate through radio link, say once every 30 seconds (? depending of the map), if they can't reach one (because you've killed him) they get more cautious.
  • Boobytraps on doors, noisemakers and so forth.
  • Aggressive enemy able to shoot you through door if you're making noise and they know you're at other side of it.

    Lack of windows isn't groundbreaking but it makes the game lose a few possibilities on how to do the assault. It could work both for and against you with bad guys noticing you and you being able to snatch intel through them with spycams.

    Features that I'd like to see:

  • Capability to fully customize your team starting from how many people you take for the job to what weaponry are they using.
    ===> I read a note about pistol/carbine and I really don't agree. Yea, pistols are more maneuverable, but really they're secondary weapons when your mag runs out. Submachineguns/short carbines are way more effective and faster to use for deadly force. Do you want to rush into house with 9 bullets ready to use at once or 31?

  • Multi-level buildings with roofs (and chance to start assault from there, helicopter?), basements and so forth. It'll be a nightmare to manage and execute, but that's challenge for you! And we all love challenge, right?
  • Better chance to give orders. Like putting multiple Charlie waypoints out there, and pressing the command only executes the 1st one w/o having to re-assign those again.
  • Chance to throw flashbangs more effectively. The way you'd want to do it is not toss it forward (in open doors), but literally smack your whole arm against the wall next to the door with your fist releasing the grenade to the room. That way you're out of sight and line of fire from whatever comes from there. Added to this giving the command of "Enter room upon explosion" would be lot better for assault group to function, since the sound flashbang makes is clear and everyone would know that NOW is the time to move in. Being able to link two soldiers into throwing two synchronized ones would be even better. I think the time that enemies are disoriented by flashbangs right now is quite good.
  • Being able to share all your custom maps with other players. This'd basically make the game INFINITE in length since I doubt you'd ever run out of maps to play.

    Just throwing out some ideas which I think that could bring more realistic environment into the gameplay. I CAN'T WAIT to get my hands on the full version of this and hope that it passes the Greenlight with ease.
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Vulpe Nebuna  [producent] 22 czerwca 2013 o 0:26 
Hi Lestuniem!

Thanks for your thoughts and suggestions!

Some of them (suppressed weapons, customizable inventory, multi-level buildings, share custom maps, etc) are on the to do list, while some others are on the "nice to have" list.

On the other hand I don't think Door Kickers will have Night Vision as we're kinda modelling a lower budget SWAT team :) but maybe night/dark missions with flashlights. At this point however I'd rather see the daylight tactical picture fully framed first ;)

Regarding the Solomon Islands embassy, I understand where you're going, you do realize that in 40 seconds from mission start a hostage gets executed, right?

Regarding the pistol vs carbine debate, I get where you're headed, in the final game you can simply choose to go in with carbines or SMGs and no pistol guys. Additionally, your long gun guys will also indeed carry pistols and automatically transition to them if the long gun runs dry in combat, this I expect to change the game dramatically. You'll also be able to order them to switch to sidearm for some very tight spaces.

Running a pointman with just a pistol will always be an option and for the player to decide. I can't tell if 7+1 rounds are enough for you, its up to you to decide, but customizing gear means you might opt to equip a 9mm Glock or the HK45 instead of the 1911, increasing the mag capacity but losing some stopping power or maybe follow-up shots speed.
mrazael 22 czerwca 2013 o 1:45 

Yea I realized the timer, point was that it only affected that trigger-happy man so once you took him out you could take the big conference room in relative peace.

Początkowo opublikowane przez Vulpe Nebuna:
Additionally, your long gun guys will also indeed carry pistols and automatically transition to them if the long gun runs dry in combat

You are gold!

I just put the more "negative" thoughts because for me it's easier to categorize those than what I liked about, but trust me there are a lot of things I like! ^^

Can't wait to play it some more *thumbs up*
mrazael 22 czerwca 2013 o 3:14 

Encountered a bug on 1st mission which I was about to Fraps.
Things I did pre to this:

- Alt tabbing back and forth between 2nd screen
- Starting Fraps midgame

Dunno if either of those had any effect on this, just wanted to share with you so it can be squashed.

First of all the flashbangs, as you can see in the last room, didn't show the bounce-off thing from wall at all, and second.. well, you see!

I put the video as unlisted so only people with the link can see it.

KillHouse Games  [producent] 24 czerwca 2013 o 3:18 
It's the second time I've seen this and both times it had something to do with Fraps, will try to reproduce.
mrazael 24 czerwca 2013 o 5:57 
2nd bug:

Doing the airplane mission, starting Fraps midgame, didn't actually get footage of this, but:

After all my 4 operatives died, the map kept on going without saying "Mission Failed" until the bomb had exploded. Not a big thing, though, since it can be manually restarted from menu.

p.s. Getting from 2 to 3 stars on Airplane mission is kind of sick and feels really rewarding... <3 :)

Edit: Small hick up with flashbang and defusing bomb. First of all the Flashbang exploded mid-path and didn't go to its destination.
Secondly you can do anything that a normal shooter can when you're defusing the bomb.

Ostatnio edytowany przez: mrazael; 24 czerwca 2013 o 6:31
mrazael 24 czerwca 2013 o 6:36 
Managed to reproduce the bug. Started Fraps midfight, didn't affect the current one, but started on one after.

===> Restarting map, dirty
===> Restarting map, dirty
===> Turning Fraps off, restarting map, clean
===> Restarting map, clean
===> Turning Fraps on, restarting map, dirty
===> Restarting map, dirty

Video below:

mrazael 24 czerwca 2013 o 14:15 
Just an update about the M4 some of the guys have... it's just mocking the real life reaction time as it is. When it takes over an second for person to shoot target he can already call himself a dead man.

And pistol guy shoots target off 20 meter distance with 3 headshots. I know you want to like pistols but SMG's are still way more effective.
Ostatnio edytowany przez: mrazael; 24 czerwca 2013 o 14:17
Vulpe Nebuna  [producent] 24 czerwca 2013 o 14:25 
Yes, aiming time vs distance is not properly modelled, and AT THE MOMENT there are various issues with the aiming time in any case ;)
Ostatnio edytowany przez: Vulpe Nebuna; 24 czerwca 2013 o 14:25
mrazael 24 czerwca 2013 o 14:27 
Yeah. I want to kill these cartels so bad and I have to take so careful because it's dependant on whether my guys can make the shots or not ^^
mrazael 27 czerwca 2013 o 5:00 
There's currently problem with the game that it doesn't support 2nd screen actions. So if I fex want to have movie playing on my 2nd screen, it freezes when I alt-tab back to the game window.
KillHouse Games  [producent] 27 czerwca 2013 o 7:31 
Did you change the video mode in options.xml? What OS are you running?
mrazael 27 czerwca 2013 o 7:54 
Windows 7, haven't changed video mode options.
in door kicker i think you guys should add gernades because some times a flash bang is not enought and i think you should be able to pick up wepons because well it would add a dynamic where you can do long missions so when you run out of ammo take it off the guy next to you and longer missions
mrazael 5 lipca 2013 o 13:16 
Początkowo opublikowane przez collinfuerst1:
in door kicker i think you guys should add gernades because some times a flash bang is not enought and i think you should be able to pick up wepons because well it would add a dynamic where you can do long missions so when you run out of ammo take it off the guy next to you and longer missions

Going into assault it takes no effort to carry 10 magazines with you, so I see no real reason for weapon pick ups. Also you don't just pick unknown weapon unless in dire need of one. Your personal weapon has your diopter set for your eye, since every person shoots a slightly different way; so picking up random person's weapon you take a risk of not being able to hit the target exactly where you want to.

Also grenades themselves are bit meh. Despite what you see in movies, full on raids where the objective is to kill and not "kill or capture" don't really happen. You try to give the criminals a chance to surrender. Most favorable would be to get them in front of the court of law where they be convicted and sent for life+eternity of imprisonment... as well as taking into account that throwing a live grenade in normal apartment will most likely harm you more than it does good, since those shrapnels really go through a lot of things.
i guess but it a real sore seeing someone shoot a automatic and then you haveing to shoot a punny hand gun if im not wrong the swat uses automatics when theres no hotages and the misson is just to capture or kill and you are right about the gernade one time shrapnel hit someone a mile away and it killed him but i see the game something that needs new wepons then just plane old semi
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