Hearts of Iron IV

Hearts of Iron IV

BlackICE Historical Immersion Mod
Why do my troops lose the battle in just 1 sec?
I'm playing as China as a challenge and Its impossible to play it. Maybe I'm missing out on some hidden mechanics, but China is super weak in this mod just like how France was taken out of the game in 6 weeks of time irl.

The problem is my troops would just retreat literally after 1 second of battle even after total mobilization. It doesn't make sense a Japanese division made up of between 10,000-20,000 Manpower is able to destroy an entire army group made up of 298,000. In WWII, China actually put up a pretty good fight. Japan couldn't win against China completely, and even volunteered to negotiate a peace treaty in 1938 taking place in Hong Kong, but Chiang rejectedi it. Japan had 3 million casualties in China during ww2 and struggled to maintain occupied cities due to guerillas, and communist hideouts.They had to use Chinese collaborationist troops as garrison and police. My casualties is at 85,000 right now meanwhile Japan is at 5,000. On one occasion, I had 3 Japanese divisions surrounded, and somehow 20 of my divisions can't kill 3 Japanese divisions? I lost bunch of equipment trying to wipe out 3 encircled japanese division, while Japan launched another naval invasion that reconnected the broken supply lines which gave me a huge stroke.

Please help me out on this, its giving me a huge stroke lmao. Thank you.
Last edited by I'm a Fascist; May 21 @ 9:17pm
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It is because You are a Fascist...
What's your org? Usually retreat happens whenever your troops fall below 1.0 organization, so if your organization base level is already close to or below 1.0 then your troops will just flee immediately. This can be caused by having too many support divisions, bad unit template, horrible national spirits, no military strategy techs, terrible equipment, or a number of other things.

China in particular is likely to struggle from some combination of all of these things. I've never played china myself, but historically China's military preparedness was so backward and stunted and the political landscape so fragmented that they took almost 10-1 casualties vs the Japanese. The only reason they didn't capitulate was sheer numbers.
Originally posted by Caramelle:
What's your org? Usually retreat happens whenever your troops fall below 1.0 organization, so if your organization base level is already close to or below 1.0 then your troops will just flee immediately. This can be caused by having too many support divisions, bad unit template, horrible national spirits, no military strategy techs, terrible equipment, or a number of other things.

China in particular is likely to struggle from some combination of all of these things. I've never played china myself, but historically China's military preparedness was so backward and stunted and the political landscape so fragmented that they took almost 10-1 casualties vs the Japanese. The only reason they didn't capitulate was sheer numbers.

Yes it was backward, but it was united. Forget about the historical inaccuracies shown in HOI4. Irl, Every warlord were unified already in 1928. 10-1 casualties vs Japan is fake news. If you are including civilian casualties then sure the casualties difference is huge. China lost between 3 million to 10 million in military casualties, not exactly at 10 million. Meanwhile, Japan lost 3 million which is pretty bad considering Japan had better industry compared to China, an agricultural nation. The Chinese actually had better weapons compared to Japan. Japan just had more.

If we compare rifles to rifles. China adopted German rifles Gewehr 1888 and Kar 98K. The Kar 98K was considered the best rifle, the most reliable and the most accurate rifle during WWII way better than the Type 38 Arisaka. Japan just had more.

If we compare HMG, Japan adopted the French mechanism of the Hotchkiss Which consistently jammed, while China adopted the old but reliable MG 08 with water cooling technology.

If we compare tanks to tanks, The Chinese bought T-26 from the Soviets after Battle of Shanghai which is much much better than the Type 95 Ha-Go that be penetrated by a 50 cal.

If we compare planes to planes. The Chinese used I-15s which was known for its speed against early models of Japanese planes. Later in the war, Japan had the zero which was better than P-40, but China did not use default P-40 but variants. Not to mention, P-43, P-51 were used in the Chinese Air Force.
Last edited by I'm a Fascist; May 25 @ 11:18am
Caramelle May 25 @ 12:32pm 
Originally posted by I'm a Fascist:
Yes it was backward, but it was united.

Right, they were united. That's why they were all controlled under a single central government and didn't have any corruption or political infighting and they cooperated in a well oiled harmonious machine. And while we're in fantasy land, they also apparently had the very best equipment in the entire world. Truly, the Japanese never stood a chance.

Back in reality though, you asked why the Chinese are so easily beaten in this mod. I told you why. You fanboying to 1940s China is kinda off topic.
Originally posted by Caramelle:
Originally posted by I'm a Fascist:
Yes it was backward, but it was united.

Right, they were united. That's why they were all controlled under a single central government and didn't have any corruption or political infighting and they cooperated in a well oiled harmonious machine. And while we're in fantasy land, they also apparently had the very best equipment in the entire world. Truly, the Japanese never stood a chance.

Back in reality though, you asked why the Chinese are so easily beaten in this mod. I told you why. You fanboying to 1940s China is kinda off topic.

Yes you told me, but you started this by saying it’s accurate because China was backward and stunted. Off topic but this mod is pretty unfair if I’m playing as China. To say China didn’t get defeated because of sheer numbers is bs. I don’t fanboy any country, or China I studied each of their respective history and concluded Nationalist China actually did fairly well judging by their industrial capabilities. Like I said I only played China as a challenge.

The warlords were united in the same political party. Name me one occasion where there was political infighting... You can’t because there isn’t any. Each one of the warlords cooperated with Chiang Kai Shek in every single battle against Japan. The Chinese did have one of the best equipment in WWII. They were firearm imports from Nazi Germany, and United States, and produced locally with license. Japan just had more.
Sir as stated above low org will cause you to lose immediately. In fact the troops won’t attack on their own with low org so you would have to force attack on offense. This can also be seen with SOV volunteers in the Spanish CW if you have done the purges before sending them
Look at your div org, does it have a -hq_modifier at the bottom? if so i posted a fix in the main comment section just now.
i'm fascist. says nazi germany, blown his cover already
Waldo Jun 13 @ 6:45am 
Originally posted by TPPL King Leonidas:
i'm fascist. says nazi germany, blown his cover already

Are you saying I'm fascist is fascist?
Waldo Jun 13 @ 6:48am 
There was infighting among the Chinese factions. TThey were also far from equipped with the best equipment. If the Chinese had perfect unity and the best equipment coupled with their massive manpower advantage Japan should have been crushed
Originally posted by Waldo:
There was infighting among the Chinese factions. TThey were also far from equipped with the best equipment. If the Chinese had perfect unity and the best equipment coupled with their massive manpower advantage Japan should have been crushed

Name one battle between Chinese factions. Perhaps... go on Wikipedia and find me one and that's if you can...

"They were also far from equipped with the best equipment."

Clearly you don't do any research and just spit out information based on what you think not actual facts of weapon statistics.

The Japanese weapons compared to standard Chinese rifles were garbage.

Chiang Kai Shek rifle = Karabiner 98K (The most reliable, and the most accurate rifle during WWII) It can shoot further ranges, with a faster bullet velocity compared to Japanese Type 99 (The rifle that succeeded Type 38 Arisaka)

Chiang Kai Shek rifle > Type 99

Majority of the Japanese Artillery could shoot further than this Chinese Artillery.

77mm Type 14 Liao = 8 cm Feldkanone M18. M18 is made by Austrians (Inferior Germans compared to Germans from Nazi Germany) It can shoot up to of 13,209 yd while majority of the Japanese Field Artillery don't shoot that far, the only counter to M18 is Type 4 Howitzer only 280 were built and Type 90 but only 786 was built. Therefore, most of the Artillery Japan used during WWII did not shoot 13,209 yd.


Type 24 Maxim = MG-08 with water cooling technology. MG-08 is basically a Maxim gun which was the most reliable HMG in WWI. Meanwhile, the Japanese adopted French mechanism such as Type 1 HMG which consistently jammed, but had good mobility. Guess who ♥♥♥♥♥ French? That's right Germany did. The French don't make good weapons at all, and Japan adopted their ♥♥♥♥♥♥ ♥♥♥ weapon.


I won't compare planes, tanks, even though China used tanks/planes that were better than A6M Zero and Japan's obsolete tanks like the Type 95 Ha-go, but except they were foreign and not locally produced. Therefore, I won't bring it out if that makes you happy.

The Chinese really were equipped with the best weapons, except they weren't mass produced like the Japanese garbage due to having less factories.
Last edited by I'm a Fascist; Jun 13 @ 12:49pm
WhatMan Jun 27 @ 4:55am 
How many tanks where avaiable in 1936 out of there 82 t-26/cv 33 and leichtractor ? 30-50 don't remember well. vs the 1000/2000 japaneses tank also the main tank for japan was the chi ha not the ha go?

Japan used motorised/armored formation well combined arm, their military was proprely trained tought their where outdated in doctrine but not as much as China. they got air superity, better aviability weapon better doctrine in all aspect.

China don't have AT gun nor they get training, nor they get spare change for their weapon.

Plane you said A6M serie beat the ♥♥♥♥ out of the P40 séries you have to wait for the P40N who come in 43 for get a decent plane, bomber ? well a handfull of old russian junk bomber, again have to wait 43/44 for getting B25. They got no navy.

If the war as to be won by the better equipped side why Germany lose ?
Originally posted by WhatMan:
How many tanks where avaiable in 1936 out of there 82 t-26/cv 33 and leichtractor ? 30-50 don't remember well. vs the 1000/2000 japaneses tank also the main tank for japan was the chi ha not the ha go?

Japan used motorised/armored formation well combined arm, their military was proprely trained tought their where outdated in doctrine but not as much as China. they got air superity, better aviability weapon better doctrine in all aspect.

China don't have AT gun nor they get training, nor they get spare change for their weapon.

Plane you said A6M serie beat the ♥♥♥♥ out of the P40 séries you have to wait for the P40N who come in 43 for get a decent plane, bomber ? well a handfull of old russian junk bomber, again have to wait 43/44 for getting B25. They got no navy.

If the war as to be won by the better equipped side why Germany lose ?

It doesn't matter how many tanks against how many tanks. Japanese tanks were obsolete like the Type 95 Ha-go which was just a piece of toy. Japanese tanks could be destroyed by bundled Stielhandgranate and suicide bombers. Japan didn't deploy thousands of tanks to China because not only they lack the oil (The reason why the invaded Dutch Indies), the terrain made it difficult for tanks to operate. Japan saved most of their tanks in the Pacific, and also homeland defense. At the end of the war, less than 1,000 tanks were captured by the Chinese forces.

Good for Japan. Motorized/Armored formation doesn't mean ♥♥♥♥ when your country lacks oil. Tell me. Why did Japan halt their advance further into China in 1938? Was it not because of lack of resources due to sanctions? Japan suffered major territory losses in China in 1940s because Japan had its oil trade embargoed. Japan didn't take much territories in the 1940s because they couldn't afford it. Japan also lost assets in the United States due to Japanese invading China which destroyed American interest in investing into China. Japan did not have better doctrine compared to China. In terms of tank superiority sure, but comparing weapons to weapons they were equal for the most part in terms of which one is better. Japan just had more. Japanese troops were not trained that well compared to foreign troops, they were more discipline and more determined that's all. At the end of the day, despite superior training than the Chinese military, they couldn't even defeat tiny communist army hiding in the mountain at the time. Very impressive training eh?

China doesn't need AT guns. A bundled Stielhandgranate can destroy Japanese tanks, and also suicide bombers. At the end of the day, most the fighting was not done by tanks, but by infantry to infantry.

A6M is better than P-40 but thats why Chinese Air Force didn't use default P-40 models lmao. They used variants, and P-43, and some P-51. The I-16s which the Chinese used had better maneuverability and speed compared to default A6M btw. If you are talking about early war in 1937, China's I-16 is better than A6M, but China had less obviously.

The Chinese used bombers that were capable of performing fast bombings. Japanese bomber Mitsubishi G3M was a slow bomber with far operation ranges. I'd rather take a plane that flies faster which bombs faster too than a plane that flies slower but with a further bombing range. In a war, you want to bomb factories as fast as you can otherwise you are gonna get shot down. Just like the Doolittle Raid. The B-25 Mitchell was able to fly 438 Km/h which makes it harder for AA gun to shoot it down due to the barrel rotation. The faster the better.

"If the war as to be won by the better equipped side why Germany lose?"

Because Germany didn't have better equipment... That's a lie and a meme that you probably listened from watching Youtube Videos. The USSR had better weapons compared to the Germans in WWII, and also MORE. The USSR had more casualities because USSR had an offensive army not a defensive one. If the Nazis didn't invade Soviet Union, Soviet would have invaded Germany and Europe. Weeks before Germany invaded Soviet Union. Soviet Union was mobilizing the entire country's military to the German border ready to attack Europe. It was a plan by Stalin to spread Communism to Europe so Hitler reacted by launching a sudden attack on Soviet without letting them know. It was a highly classified file that only SS knew. Soviet wasn't expecting Germany to suddenly attack so they got distracted and tilted. Therefore they got disorganized. By 1943, Soviet consolidated and pushed Germany back. Nazis basically saved Europe from Communism lol.
Last edited by I'm a Fascist; Jun 27 @ 8:10pm
nazi nazi nazi nazi is all i hear Never Germany or NS germany.
Anyways for the battle of france the germans in terms of tanks diden't have anything better then the french in terms of pure battle performance, the germans had Radio and diffren't training relying on squad leaders more to make there own decisions.in the battle in russiia in the start. the germans had better tanks exept for the KV series
Last edited by [TPPL] King Leonidas; Jun 28 @ 3:21am
Originally posted by TPPL King Leonidas:
nazi nazi nazi nazi is all i hear Never Germany or NS germany.
Anyways for the battle of france the germans in terms of tanks diden't have anything better then the french in terms of pure battle performance, the germans had Radio and diffren't training relying on squad leaders more to make there own decisions.in the battle in russiia in the start. the germans had better tanks exept for the KV series

Germans did not have better tanks. T-34 85 was produced more than 76. T 34 85 > Panzer IV. Russia also had more. The IS and KV series were better than the Tiger I. Not Tiger 2 because you need IS-3 for that. French lost because they were incompetent. The French generals thought Germany would attack France at the border, but German attacked Paris right away through Ardennes forest. French had better tanks but it doesn’t mean ♥♥♥♥ when you use them in the wrong place.
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