Steam Greenlight
Erretter Oct 25, 2013 @ 3:23am
Crystal Kindom TAKEN DOWN because of Copyright Lawsuit
For every Fan, that did not get the Newsletter:


Yes you read right - the very same Cyangmou that worked with us on the game for about two years.

He claims copyright on his work and gave explicit instructions of what he wants to be removed:

+ the game & game website
+ all websites containing his art - like:
+ Steam Greenlight
+ Facebook
+ Indiegogo
+ Indie DB


Until yesterday I was totally unaware of his intentions - and even so his C&D is 35 pages long and must have taken ages to create he didn't say nothing about it to me or any other member of the team.

He threatens me with a lawsuit and assertion of compensation if I don't comply.

I keep you posted on whats going on as soon as time permits - but please understand that I'm totally devastated by this news.He ruins about 15 years of hard work on my site not to mention the other guys working with me and you the players and supporters.

I took the game off-line already and started to work down his list.

This guy totally lost it.

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Showing 1-15 of 39 comments
Erretter Oct 25, 2013 @ 7:07am 
It was taken down from greenlight as well...
AusSkiller Oct 25, 2013 @ 7:41am 
This is why you should ALWAYS have a lawyer draw up a proper contract when hiring or collaborating with other people, it allows you to have them sign over the rights to the work they do for your game so you don't end up in such a horrible position. It still totally sucks that they are doing that though :(.
wilco64256 Oct 25, 2013 @ 8:20am 
Yep, perfect example of why you should always have contracts, even with people you know and think you can trust not to do something like this.
Zero Oct 25, 2013 @ 8:36am 
Ironically, the art and stuff of Crystal Kingdom was already stolen/inspired highly from Secret of Mana... I'm a bit surprised Square isn't the one who took you down.

By the way... You aren't telling the full story or one of you is lying. Let me show you... Surely you can explain this to us, right?

Originally posted by Cyangmou:
Yes I hold the copyrights for all the art I created. All of this art has a total workload of ~2360h (stand 09.09.2013)

560h of that (lots of assets not in the C&D catalogue, otherwise parts of early unfinished revisions) were paid with a pocket money next to school - I still hold the copyrights
900h are still open and payment was promised
900h I additionally worked for a 15% revenue share.

During the work on S:CK I finished school and built up my own business in the meanwhile and also had to freelance for my living next to this - since the amount agreed with Pres covered only really little of my monthly living costs - S:CK was my big plan for the future and the 15% revenue-share would have been the backbone for my finances.

Presbyter kicked me out of the project September 17th. I additionally don't received the payment we agreed on for August, September and October. On top of that he don't wanted to talk with me and as I wrote another E-Mail said he currently don't has time to talk with me and he would come back to me - which don't happened within 3 weeks.
Although he released an update in the meanwhile (which also contained a lot more of my graphics and was obviously a lot of work).

I decided to send over a C&D catalogue with all work I own the copyright and I said I will bring that up in front of the court of law if we can't find a solution until October 25th - Presbyter extended that deadline with my lawyer until November 4th. This means that I won't take further steps until that date to bargain out all details - If we'd come to an agreement I won't sue them of course.

Instead of trying to bargain with me Pres already took down the game and all related materials today.
I definitely was willed to give them a license for all the graphics if I just get safeties for all we agreed on earlier (for the work I did).
It was never my intention that the game gets offline, I just want what Pres owes me and that in a legally fixed way, since I can't trust him anymore.

Source link[]
AusSkiller Oct 25, 2013 @ 8:45am 
@Sera, haha, that certainly sheds a different light on things ;).
lil Kennedy Oct 25, 2013 @ 10:16am 
Punymeyer Oct 25, 2013 @ 3:34pm 
I'm glad I stumbled upon this thread, it's pretty entertaining.
Zero Oct 25, 2013 @ 4:20pm 
Originally posted by The Wedge:
That's not fair either and doesn't matter. What matters is either what the settlement is between parties, or what is decided in court. Everything else publicly written is just arm waving and can only serve to complicate the existing problem. Never make unhelpful public remarks....

Originally posted by Erretter:
This guy totally lost it. this. It may cause an amicable settlement to be less likely to occur.
The guy owns all of the graphics though. Reading this thread led me to believe the artist was an ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥. Apparently, he isn't. This thread made public is what is unhelpful. How about he actually talks to the guy before making some big drama thread on Greenlight discussions?

I do think "Presbyter" has some explaining to do but not to us... Both sides lost if this joke goes on. It's probably too late for that, though...

Originally posted by Cyangmou:
It was never my intention that the game gets offline, I just want what Pres owes me and that in a legally fixed way, since I can't trust him anymore.

That said, sorry if you see my post as harsh and offensive but it's the sad truth.
Originally posted by The Wedge:
I probably should have mentioned how important it is to maintain good relationships with your business associates, but really, does that need to be said?
Apparently, it does. There seem to still be some out there who haven't understood that rather key element of working together.
No need to apologize to me. I maintain good relationships with my coworkers. :)
Zero Oct 25, 2013 @ 5:01pm 
The issue is already all on the table though... And I saw what that cyan guy can do and I've played their game so I do think I know what I talk about, here... They need to negotiate something up between themselves and if they can't, Greenlight is not the place to put it. Cyan already said he owns the copyright for the graphics and he also claim Presbyter just went into a take down panic instead of trying to discuss something with him.

It makes me wonder who really lost it, if it's true. I still don't think this kind of thread is fitting for the "public view". This is no longer related to Greenlight.
Zero Oct 25, 2013 @ 5:21pm 
Still... He does own the copyrights of the graphics anyway. He did work he wasn't paid for and now he wants what Presbyter owes him. On the other face of the coin, you get the OP who claims the artist lost it. He took down all stuff while Cyan claims Pres did it in a rush instead of talking to him.

Why is this on Greenlight, already? What is there to discuss here...? If you say nothing then clearly this thread doesn't even belong to start with. If you want to pat him on the back, go ahead. I still think they should talk to each others.
Zero Oct 25, 2013 @ 5:53pm 
I think this big "Ima sue you" thing already goes too far... I still think that if the artist drew all of the stuff, it's only logical he owns it. It was his work, his piece of mind. If there was a contract then yeah, it would state exactly who owns what. What I see here is merely a fight between an artist and a random game's devs. Just by the fact he took down all of the stuff before negotiating anything means he's afraid he would get sued.

I understand what you're trying to explain a little but I still think this schoolyard fight doesn't belong here... This thread shows the artist like some power hungry monster but his side shows a whole different view of things. I doubt he will start to sue everyone who has even a single piece of his art somewhere (unless really stolen). Come on, jeez...
Zero Oct 25, 2013 @ 7:15pm 
Like this thread, for example... Cyan sounds more serious about it, sadly. Of course you will say I don't know but still... There is no point going all panic mode making a thread and claiming the guy will attack anyone who use his materials. I very much doubt it goes so far.
AusSkiller Oct 25, 2013 @ 7:17pm 
Originally posted by Sera:
I still think that if the artist drew all of the stuff, it's only logical he owns it. It was his work, his piece of mind. If there was a contract then yeah, it would state exactly who owns what.
Yeah, as I understand it all artistic works are automatically covered by copyright and belong to the artist that created them, so without a contract Cyangmou is within his rights. Of course that's a terrible thing when working on a game because you need the development company (or publisher) to own everything so that you can't get into these sorts of legal troubles.

If I was writing up a contract for an artist I'd be specifically stating that all work they create for the game belongs to the development company, that way this situation would instead be a breach of contract for not paying Cyangmou and Cyangmou could sue Presbyter for what was owed but Presbyter could still continue selling the game which would probably generate the money to pay Cyangmou (and any legal costs) which makes things better for both parties in the end, which is why it's so important to have these sorts of contracts.
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Date Posted: Oct 25, 2013 @ 3:23am
Posts: 39