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3 tuntia sitten
Aiheessa: Make First or Even Third Person?
Prima lähetti viestin:
I was speaking with myself in the mirror... lol. To me personally this game has a relaxing element in it the way it is designed, I like it because of that.

You still really have no idea what's going on.
11.8. kello 7.48
Aiheessa: Make First or Even Third Person?
Psymon² lähetti viestin:
This thread makes me uneccessarily irritated.

1. "people dont seem to like/understand your game, so change it"
2. "change it to something that litterally wouldn't work with isometric (first person) or to something that it already is (third person)"
2a. Probably meant "over the shoulder", but again wouldn't work because isometric
3. "I don't understand what isometric means but I might buy your game if you change its primary feature"
3a. can we respect a bit of artistic integrity? let them make what they want. if you don't like it, move on?
4. first reply, "I'd like to see you do better" which is just the worst retort to any criticism.

Insert a calm rational explanation from dev.
Basically, isometric is part of the challenge.
Someone more immature might say: git gud

5. "I'm going to ignore everything you said because I still don't like it, or understand it".
6. "make us all lose out" I've seen nonsense like this so often. its either "you could make more money if you do what I tell you" or "more people could be happy with a game if you do what I tell you" both of which seem agressively selfless but are obviously a weak attempt to disguise the a more selfish "i dont want to buy this game, make a better one that I do want"
7. "I still don't understand isometric but heres some changes you should make anyway".
8. "I'll claim I understand isometric despite the vast evidence to the contrary"
9. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
10. "isometric looks good, but doesn't play good" - I'm fine with this, pretty much sums it up.
11. the most important bit, admits doesn't understand.

I gotta stop coming to the steam forums... not good for my health.



Psymon² lähetti viestin:
This thread makes me uneccessarily irritated.

1. "people dont seem to like/understand your game, so change it"
2. "change it to something that litterally wouldn't work with isometric (first person) or to something that it already is (third person)"
2a. Probably meant "over the shoulder", but again wouldn't work because isometric
3. "I don't understand what isometric means but I might buy your game if you change its primary feature"
3a. can we respect a bit of artistic integrity? let them make what they want. if you don't like it, move on?
4. first reply, "I'd like to see you do better" which is just the worst retort to any criticism.

Insert a calm rational explanation from dev.
Basically, isometric is part of the challenge.
Someone more immature might say: git gud

5. "I'm going to ignore everything you said because I still don't like it, or understand it".
6. "make us all lose out" I've seen nonsense like this so often. its either "you could make more money if you do what I tell you" or "more people could be happy with a game if you do what I tell you" both of which seem agressively selfless but are obviously a weak attempt to disguise the a more selfish "i dont want to buy this game, make a better one that I do want"
7. "I still don't understand isometric but heres some changes you should make anyway".
8. "I'll claim I understand isometric despite the vast evidence to the contrary"
9. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
10. "isometric looks good, but doesn't play good" - I'm fine with this, pretty much sums it up.
11. the most important bit, admits doesn't understand.

I gotta stop coming to the steam forums... not good for my health.

7. "I still don't understand isometric but heres some changes you should make anyway".

I don't understand why I come to these forums when people write a list that is using quotation marks to quote specifically written things then also use the same quotation marks to quote what they're thinking inside their own heads which can cause other people to easily misconstrue their point (or lack of) and then get them into potentially unnecessary arguments with other people....

Hmmm... Well...

First of all, if you're going to post an antagonistic response that includes me in your quotes then quote me with a choice of either or all: correctly/accurately/chronologically?

Are you talking about me who doesn't understand isometric or someone else? Is your list chronological or are you just randomly letting out all your frustration in no specific order at all?

Because if that quote was aimed at me, substantiate your points otherwise it will remain in the same category: "nonsense".

I gave an opinion and I understand isometric. Maybe you didn't read the discussion properly about the changes to the filtering being relative to after a possible change of camera perspective.

You obviously didn't read everything clearly and seemingly just brought your bad mood into discussion (which is obvious) ... Your previous engagements with other steam users has nothing to do with me and has caused you to throw your upset in the wrong direction. Understandable considering some of the garbage I've read in these posts...

But you misread my point almost entirely when I read your ridiculous list...

I was clear:

Game looks great as it is, but I won't buy/play it if the gameplay mechanics are broken and that's the reason I suggested third person, the dev even stated that they discussed the idea (sort of).

A nice looking game is fine, gameplay is more important though otherwise you venture into the category of art...

Sure, a game can be both... But with broken gameplay mechanics, I'll stick it in the art category.

If I can make a suggestion and have an opinion then it's my right to do so. I wasn't being rude, but I was saying what I'd like to see... And people certainly are missing out because this game looks great, but bad mechanics are bad mechanics and I wouldn't waste my time.

Okay, so... maybe relieve yourself before coming on the forums next time? Or avoid them entirely, because my comments were not toxic or stupid, other comments were... Yet you dragged me into your stupid list.

No thank you.
hahaha, wow that's so... dodge haha, thanks... I'll try remember that. Such a strange bug though!
Looking a lot nicer, perhaps there is hope for this game then :P
21.7. kello 15.32
Aiheessa: Typical Developer response to feedback.
Okay so I was reading through the reviews today and I run into this review by "Blushing Boo"

"Oh god i thought i wouldnt see snaking again for the rest of my life but then this game comes along and lets you buffer drifts long enough to constantly switch between drifting directions, essentially letting you easily drift on a straight line."

The developer responds like this:

"Hi Blushing Boo!

We regret you didn't like this aspect of the drifting system of All-Star Fruit Racing in specific. Due to the target of our game, which is very wide, we needed to implement a drift system that resulted easy to understand for everyone but hard to master for the more expert players. After many tries during the Early Access stage our community approved this system which became the final one: now all users are able to win a race, even without drifting, but only expert players are able, for instance, to get every Gold medal of the game on Time Attack by drifting continuously, without making a single mistake and stepping on all the boostpads. We will take note of your suggestion.

Thanks for the feedback.

3DClouds Team"

I'm sure anyone with half a brain can see the "everybody gets a ribbon" mentality that is dragging gaming down and has been since more and more low skilled players have begun to give their "feedback".

When people state a game is "too hard" that is because they haven't practiced enough.

Games used to be hard for a reason and the thing is: Even the worst of players still became appropriately skilled enough to come close to finishing games or even getting half way through when upon first playing they couldn't even get past the first level.

I remember when I was a kid playing Alex the Kidd in Miracle World at around age 10 and the game was incredibly difficult for a young one like me to master.

When it was too difficult I would just ask for help to learn how to play it... Imagine if I could give feedback and make the spike pits in the bouncy water just a bit wider so my noob♥♥♥♥♥could fit through. That would have just been a massive shame to squander that challenge and ruin the game fun due to a bunch of hyperactive people with poor concentration and unhoned gaming skills?

So now we complain or give feedback to the developers, because everyone needs a ribbon? Absolute nonsense and not a good direction to take any game because it waters down the challenge and lowers gameplay value for even the players who gave feedback as they don't understand how watering down games and making them easier affects all players experience negatively.

Sometimes too hard is too hard? Sure! Go back to games like BattleToads on the Sega and you'll see brutality. People talk about "Dark Souls" as being a hard game and from comments, I hear it's really not that HARD, it's just learning the game to the point that it's easy? Yet the series is successful because it doesn't hand hold and water itself down for lazy gamers.

But this isn't a story game; It's a racing game! There's no point in making it easier... This is a challenge game (as racing games are) and by giving everyone a ribbon?

If everyone wins, isn't that the same as everyone also losing?

If developers stopped feeding players through their games with hand holding and watered down challenges then maybe the replay value would go up.

Who wants to play a game more than once unless the story was just incredibly mesmerizing?

Challenge can be just as mesmerizing as a great story, but from reading this review and the developer response, sounds like a great way to destroy a game before it even leaves the dev studio.
20.7. kello 0.03
Aiheessa: Make First or Even Third Person?
Prima lähetti viestin:
Pffffrrr I want to see what game you can come up with and design... so easy to just criticise.

This is constructive criticism aimed at reaching a larger audience.

If people are complaining that they're unable to actually enjoy the game due to the camera actually causing issues with even being able to see certain parts of combat then there could be a work around to this.

This issue also extends to the depth perception of projectile trajectory and the inability to fully understand if it's a hit or a miss means that this is even more of a reason to switch perspective.

Lofar lähetti viestin:
It's ok to have ideas - No need to defend the game here Prima... Funnily enough we used to joke about making a first person mod, but it was always only really a joke because in T42 one of the core precepts of the gameplay is the isometric view point.

For one the artstyle would be completely different from close up, and secondly the slowed-down bullets wouldn't make any sense in first/third person, and we'd have to change so much in the way of balance to make it play well.

Essentially, the game is intended to be the way it is because we wanted there to be an realtime isometric puzzle element to the gameplay - getting rid of it is akin to making an entirely new game. So, as it stands we definitely won't be going down this route I'm afraid.

It is your choice, but sticking to something because it was the initial plan and rolling with what seems to not succeed is only going to make us all lose out. That means you as the devs and us as the players.

I could see a better game and understand that I would not purchase a game that has reviews stating that the trajectories and predictions are random at best.

You could have 2 views? And sure, maybe the graphics need some tweaks... But switching to first person mid game could be interesting or even have a dual view system or something.

I do understand that these graphics are designed to look better from Isometric perspective, but I think they could do just fine with a little filtering etc.

*shrugs*

Game looks pretty nice tbh, keep up the good work in that regards, but I personally don't see the point in sticking to a premise that seems to be causing such gameplay hindering issues.

Doesn't make any sense to me.
19.7. kello 23.50
Aiheessa: Does this have third person?
Okay that sounds cool. Third person is immersion ruining and basically cheating. :P
18.7. kello 22.41
Aiheessa: Make First or Even Third Person?
Hi guys!

So I'm reading reviews of the game and watching some gameplay video and seeing the issues about clunky and unintuitive controls as well as the bullets that seem undeterminable whether they are going to hit you or not...

How about the developers use the same game and bring it into First or Third person and be gone with this silly camera flipping business?

Maybe then it might be a better game to avoid the spoken of issues?

Would be interesting to see that implemented then I might buy it.

Thoughts?
18.7. kello 21.28
Aiheessa: Does this have third person?
The video suggests yes.

Not a good design choice for a tactical shooter as essentially it's a form of cheating... Unless there's some sort of invisible and invincible drone flying around that sends visuals to the user.

I don't think games like this should have any third person option.

Thoughts guys?
18.7. kello 21.12
Aiheessa: This actually has very positive review? wth?
Beagle lähetti viestin:
not trying to be off-topic but, i did not expect this big of a discussion. woah

Nah that's just me, I'm a bit of a wall of texter. Some people don't like it, but I prefer to get my point out rather than just looking like an angry troll. lol

I am a little grumpy though, been looking for a new game for a while and I just can't seem to find that one. :/
18.7. kello 19.45
Aiheessa: This actually has very positive review? wth?
SkywalkerFoe lähetti viestin:
Bar lähetti viestin:

Asking me what I would play over this game right now, honestly... I'd be tempted to play this instead of other games... Which is a bit of a problem. I wasn't trying to be condescending, but I guess that was unavoidable without writing an essay.. So here's a better attempt:

The point of the discussion/complaint/vent is that the game seems very poorly designed or rather sub par to what is available to be created with the tools available today, but also seems like maybe a better option than much of the crap that is unloaded onto steam for us to sift through.

I didn't say this game is specifically garbage, I'm saying it looks visually terrible, the physics look poorly implemented at best (Which might be a feature if you find it funny?) and it has terrible animations.

However, I'd honestly be more likely to play this over most of the shovelware that that gets flung at us like a wad of cow patties.

I guess I'm just disappointed in the quality of games over the past few years and the pointlessness and lack of challenge to them yet many of them get a thumbs up with relatively poor play time and/or testing to actually review it correctly which further hides possibly better quality products even deeper into the pile of garbage that steam has been filled with. Not to montion the endless greenlit garbage that gets scammed into the system with fraudulent upvotes.

So if this game is picked as a great choice seems a bit lame. Again, I'm not saying this game looks like the worst game ever, I'm saying comparatively to what could be made; this game looks awful. Yet somehow it looks like it could be better than most the junk on steam... (Even though the assets look like a completed tutorial for the most basic shape and animation creation that is possibly available within a freeware 3D design program for people who don't know the blender exists)

Disappointing.

What other games are worth my time is not relevant here. In fact, this discussion isn't really relevant to anything specific anyway. It's just a general complaint about games in general. Not specifically this one, It's just where I landed when I was going through piles of garbage on steam and it prompted me to think about how good the reviews for Goat Simulator were yet no one even plays the game for more than a couple of hours because it truly is just garbage that people found funny for a few minutes.

Maybe this isn't total garbage, but it sure does look like it... And if it truly is better than many other games and is a choice as an enjoyable title. That to me truly says something about the quality of games right now.

Sorry if this is insulting to anyone. But this is just disappointing.
I guess I see what you mean. Games are very disappointing these days, especially the ones pushed out by big corporations, but I can assure you, the devs of this game really do care about this game, and the people who play it. They're not just trying to get money out of it. However as of the graphics they don't mean everything to me in a game as i'm sure is the same for you, but on the engine they're on currently the potential for graphics are... limited. However the'yre reconstructing the game on Unity 5 currently and It's looking very good. If you look at some of their devblogs or if you follow them on instagram you can find some pics and videos at how they're coming.
All in all, if you see so many people positive about a game, then there must be something interesting about it. Granted, this game's not for everyone, and watching content on youtube can help some with that but in reality there's no way of knowing until you try it out.

Actually a decent response and amicable to hear you write that the way you did.

I probably should not have been so abrasive to begin with and sorry for doing that. Maybe there is something to this game and I could check it out later if I can't find anything else to do.

For me, I would love a physics based game with something challenging to do, not just for lols.

As for graphics: I play a Free game called Warframe and have a lot of hours put into it, but the game is so ridiculously easy that I'm losing interest.... It was worth my time till the realisation that there really has been no challenge at all.

I guess I'm just looking for some sort of challenge and something fun to do and I'm just not finding it. Shouldn't take it out on a thread like this...

I guess that leads to a suggestion: As the physics get better in this game (If that's going to happen) I would love to see some actual difficult challenges and lots of them. Not just silly business that seems funny for 10 minutes or so.

If that was to happen, and I mean genuine challenges that require 10-15 minutes to get through... Then it would be fun and I might even drag a friend in... Can't find much else to do at the moment.

Anyway, Thanks for the reply. Hope you're enjoying yourself playing this :D
18.7. kello 19.28
Aiheessa: This actually has very positive review? wth?
SkywalkerFoe lähetti viestin:
Bar lähetti viestin:
The majority of games released are of such poor quality at this point in time that people are actually enjoying this game above others?

Enjoy it, sure... It just clearly points out how bad other games must be if this is a choice above anything else to play.

Lame.
ok senor condesending, what game is worth your oh-so valuble time?

Asking me what I would play over this game right now, honestly... I'd be tempted to play this instead of other games... Which is a bit of a problem. I wasn't trying to be condescending, but I guess that was unavoidable without writing an essay.. So here's a better attempt:

The point of the discussion/complaint/vent is that the game seems very poorly designed or rather sub par to what is available to be created with the tools available today, but also seems like maybe a better option than much of the crap that is unloaded onto steam for us to sift through.

I didn't say this game is specifically garbage, I'm saying it looks visually terrible, the physics look poorly implemented at best (Which might be a feature if you find it funny?) and it has terrible animations.

However, I'd honestly be more likely to play this over most of the shovelware that that gets flung at us like a wad of cow patties.

I guess I'm just disappointed in the quality of games over the past few years and the pointlessness and lack of challenge to them yet many of them get a thumbs up with relatively poor play time and/or testing to actually review it correctly which further hides possibly better quality products even deeper into the pile of garbage that steam has been filled with. Not to montion the endless greenlit garbage that gets scammed into the system with fraudulent upvotes.

So if this game is picked as a great choice seems a bit lame. Again, I'm not saying this game looks like the worst game ever, I'm saying comparatively to what could be made; this game looks awful. Yet somehow it looks like it could be better than most the junk on steam... (Even though the assets look like a completed tutorial for the most basic shape and animation creation that is possibly available within a freeware 3D design program for people who don't know the blender exists)

Disappointing.

What other games are worth my time is not relevant here. In fact, this discussion isn't really relevant to anything specific anyway. It's just a general complaint about games in general. Not specifically this one, It's just where I landed when I was going through piles of garbage on steam and it prompted me to think about how good the reviews for Goat Simulator were yet no one even plays the game for more than a couple of hours because it truly is just garbage that people found funny for a few minutes.

Maybe this isn't total garbage, but it sure does look like it... And if it truly is better than many other games and is a choice as an enjoyable title. That to me truly says something about the quality of games right now.

Sorry if this is insulting to anyone. But this is just disappointing.
18.7. kello 14.22
Aiheessa: This actually has very positive review? wth?
I've been sifting through games for the past hour or so and the quality of games is literally so poor right now that even this looks like it could be more enjoyable than most of them and that just made me feel really disappointed lol.

Maybe there is some fun to be had? Just looks like a clone of Goat Simulator of some sort. (Which is fine, but that game was so bad that most thumbs up reviews had less than an hour or 2 of play time... People love the memes over quality which is just sad)

I was looking up reviews or a trailer for "Satisfactory" who made a great series called "Sanctum" which were great tower defense games with substance... Then the video says "From the makers of Goat Simulator" .... What the?

:facepalm:

It's just so lame how the quality of games is taking such a dive that is is a choice above much else.
18.7. kello 14.16
Aiheessa: This actually has very positive review? wth?
The majority of games released are of such poor quality at this point in time that people are actually enjoying this game above others?

Enjoy it, sure... It just clearly points out how bad other games must be if this is a choice above anything else to play.

Lame.
28.6. kello 22.42
Aiheessa: Marketing video doesn't show much at all
Sorry to say this but literally 2-3 seconds at a time of gameplay isn't enough.

I'd suggest remaking your showcase video to show off the game a bit more and for a bit longer, show off some more enemies etc.

Looks alright, but I'm not gonna fork out $10 till I can see. Sure I can google it, but it's probably your job as a developer to showcase it properly.

Other than that... the 15% off sale is not good enough.

Thanks.
haha, interesting... Well I lost interest in this game also so... Thanks for the random tip of how a broken game lets you through with a visual setting.

I remember I played through further at one point than this jump.

Then playing again another time after reinstalling windows etc... I just couldn't get through. First time was easy, next time it just failed and failed. Definite bug. Fixed with Vsync? .. Random! lol

Sometimes it works, sometimes it doesn't... Over and over again... I'd say it's like a lottery jump tbh.
3.4. kello 8.26
Aiheessa: COOP
I'll buy this if/once there is co-op. I just don't really buy single player games, I never end up playing them... 500+ games or something and I've only played a small amount. :P

I think this game would sell a lot more copies if there was co op mode.

Probably worth the investment if this game is already selling well... Seems it's not doing too badly for a single player indie title.
lol
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