STEAM 群組
Linux User Group s-lug
STEAM 群組
Linux User Group s-lug
199
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1,426
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創立
2010 年 4 月 16 日
語言
英文
目前顯示第 1-10 項,共 175 項
9
1 月 9 日 下午 7:52
Game dev has some harsh words about Linux support
intok 發表:
Cheeseness 發表:
IMO it's better to remind people that each title is an investment in building an audience and accumulating loyalty among that audience. First titles are always going to have teething issues and a bumpy road should be expected from the outset. Ideally, developers who're not prepared for that should stay away so that we can focus on building positive narratives with the developers who are, and users who're not willing to have a few rough edges in the stuff they pay for should be more choosey and less vocal so that they can have positive experiences without shitting on devs who're still finding their footing.
Most Linux gamers are willing and able to help figure out where the problem is and how to fix it, some devs just have NIH disorder, like Bethesda, all of their games are a buggyPOS that requires you to install user made patches to be able to even play the game half the time.
It's really hard to say whether that's "most users" these days. 5+ years ago, definitely, but for the games that I've worked on and the developers that I help out, there's been a significant drop in the usefulness/helpfulness of Linux users and their bug reports. People who're keen to invest time in helping are still out there, but they are in my experience comparatively few and far between today. The number of people who expect/demand flawless experiences from new-to-Linux developers on the other hand has dramatically increased.

Edit: I guess where I'm coming from is that that "Linux users are super helpful" stereotype is something that needs specific and conscious effort to maintain (not just at the individual level, but at a cultural level).
intok 發表:
Was this game launched on Windows first? If so he should compare the percentages to that and their severity, not just totals. I would also assume that the majority of crashes are over the same thing making it a simple fix for a large number of the users having issues.
I'd definitely played Linux builds before it launched on Steam Early Access. I think it's pretty safe to say that the crash report figures are OK to take at face value.

The thing I'm not certain of is whether that 0.1% includes Kickstarter backers or not. My gut says it's probably not and that since the game offered Linux support at a time where this was kinda rare, a higher percentage of the game's eventual audience hopped onboard for that.

That said, I think that trying to find discrepancies in the numbers ignores that this kind of feeling is echoed by many developers - regardless of whether the numbers are right, the outcome of developers having these kinds of experiences is still a reality we have to face. Picking apart numbers just gives the impression that Linux users are in denial whenever these things come up.

IMO it's better to remind people that each title is an investment in building an audience and accumulating loyalty among that audience. First titles are always going to have teething issues and a bumpy road should be expected from the outset. Ideally, developers who're not prepared for that should stay away so that we can focus on building positive narratives with the developers who are, and users who're not willing to have a few rough edges in the stuff they pay for should be more choosey and less vocal so that they can have positive experiences without shitting on devs who're still finding their footing.
I dunno. Everything from his tweets sounds like a positive first experience to me (regardless of how that developer who wasn't involved with support or much Linux-specific stuff sees it). In a world where we don't have cert, best practices, pervasiveness of relevant skills across the industry, there are going to be teething issues for a new and unfamiliar platform, and so far as I can tell, the vast majority of Linux players had positive experiences.

All things considered, Uber Entertainment is in a good position to build on their previous experiences and continue to give Linux users even better experiences in future titles if they choose to do so.

Whether or not that particular developer will skip Linux or not is probably not so relevant since they don't work at Uber any more.
13
2018 年 12 月 12 日 上午 3:10
Aiming to add Linux support to Zero G Arena. Anyone up for some beta testing?
25
2018 年 10 月 8 日 下午 12:57
Steam Surveys and negativity to game developers for Linux.
chillions 發表:
Cheeseness 發表:
OK. The "people who spend more money buy more games" thing was the logical leap you hadn't provided. You also hadn't said anything that was framed as being about your own purchasing habits.

Well I said I was a linux user, and I am here on steam aren't I?
Apparently. Regardless, you never said "I buy more games" or even really said anything at all about anybody buying more games. Just some stuff about performance and that there was some action that software devs should get in on because Linux users had to have better hardware in order to run games.

At any rate, thanks for the clarification.
chillions 發表:
Better hardware costs more money, and people who spend more money buy more games. I don't see why you are struggling with this. I provided myself as evidence.
OK. The "people who spend more money buy more games" thing was the logical leap you hadn't provided. You also hadn't said anything that was framed as being about your own purchasing habits.
chillions 發表:
Cheeseness 發表:
I think we have very different perspectives on what the industry is and what the industry should be. I'm very happy to be doing what I do and don't plan to change that. You seem to be under the mistaken impression that this is a stable industry with a stable market. It's not - it's the fastest changing creative medium that has ever existed on this planet. That it's been commercialised more rapidly and more aggressively than any other medium has probably contributed to that.

It's normal for people to be underpaid, overworked, and provided with fewer benefits than they deserve. Most of the studios you could name as successful ride on the mistreatment of their people in order to make a profit. For those of us who try to make sure we're doing things properly, the overheads are much higher than you might imagine.

I'm sorry if I have offended you, I mean no harm. As a musician in 2018, I know what it is like to have to work a more fiscally resourceful job to support my less fiscally resourceful passion. My point was a general concern for your wellbeing, not a stab at what you love.
I'm not offended. I'm just hoping to give you a better understanding of some things that your words suggest you don't have. Your posts seem to imply that there's a degree of stability, safety, and guaranteed revenue from both making games and supporting Linux. In reality, there are far more factors involved than any developer can effectively control, and most developers are sensibly in risk mitigation mode, and if larger platforms are enough to sustain a studio, it doesn't really make sense to blame a developer for being OK with with that.


chillions 發表:
cheeseness 發表:
chillions 發表:
Obviously linux CAN perform better, actually wine could probably run some games faster in theory, but it just isn't that way yet. There needs to be more devs determined to support the platform first. You can't have the chicken before the egg, can you?
...
Users that spend more money on their rigs are definitely a piece of action that software developers want.

Why is this important to a developer?

More customers=more money. I have already given evidence that linux users may buy more games than windows users, per-capita.
I've seen speculation in your posts, but no evidence so far. Here's a free one though[cheesetalks.net]. I have evidence of Linux users paying more for games in Humble Bundles, gathered from the first 105 promotions, which shows Linux users paying 47% above the cross platform average, but only contributing 6.7% of revenue. For better or worse, more and more Linux users are waiting for sales and buying stuff cheaper as we move into a post-scarcity market where there are more Linux-supporting games out there than any one person can reasonably buy. If Linux users are still paying more, it's by even less and that margin is decreasing every day.

At any rate, that doesn't explain why you think that users having better hardware is something that benefits software developers.

chillions 發表:
Cheeseness 發表:
chillions 發表:
I don't buy into the narrative that linux users are harsh on the devs
Whether you buy into it or not does not really change the reality of the situation. If you find yourself needing to write things like "Sorry for yelling at you devs," then you might even be contributing to that problem yourself.

That may be the case, but then you would also be contributing to the narrative that hungry developers can't take a joke. I was obviously not really yelling, as no amount of caps is.
I'm beginning to see a trend here of shifting the topic instead of addressing the point. This is not a good way of discussing things.
3
2018 年 8 月 30 日 上午 2:12
Steam Play - some numbers
LINUX facePlanted 發表:
Do you have any idea if Proton gives to devs some possibility (like a config text file) where to specify wine dependencies and tweaks, for their games ?

And if not, I really wonder how a dev can improve his game compatibility with wine ...
wouldn't that require to:
1. understand why wine has a problem with that specific visual issue / sound issue / input issue
2. change the code (and/or library) in the engine and fingers crossed that it works
???

Sounds to me like a task that is better suited to engines studios (unity / unreal / cryengine)
but moreover, imo, the root of the issue is wine not replicating some obscure, undocumented windows / directx feature ...
I haven't come across any documentation at Valve's end for things that developers can do for improved Proton compatibility beyond the recommendation that developers use Vulkan renderers.

As another example, I had someone ask me the day after Proton became available whether or not I could reach out to a developer I sometimes work with to ask them to fix a problem with saving (pretty sure it was this upstream Wine bug[bugs.winehq.org] which has since been fixed).

The WineHQ AppDB has many DLL override and registry recommendations for particular games, and the Wine bug tracker has many issues which shed some light on what compatibility issues might be present.

Regardless of who the best person to ask/hassle is, my point was that it's far too early to be making requests of anybody but Valve.
LINUX facePlanted 發表:
this is all very new and the keyword is BETA.
I sure wish more people would take this to heart.

I see a concerning number of Linux users asking developers to take actions to make their games behave better with Proton without stopping to consider that those developers may not be willing to make further adjustments if/when this stuff becomes stable (say, for example, asking developers to remove WIP Linux ports even though Valve may add an option later allowing Linux users to force a Windows version to be run when a Linux version is present).

It reminds me of when SteamVR for Linux went into beta and people started asking developers for Linux builds of their games, not considering that updates (and the instability of Valve's SteamVR Unity plugin, etc.) would mean that their initial efforts would eventually not run/not behave correctly. In some cases, those developers are now less likely to consider doing Linux ports of future projects.

It's very important to make sure that a developer is likely to be interested in maintaining/updating their stuff throughout a beta period before making requests or even bringing Proton to their attention as something that's ready for them to target IMO.
4
2018 年 7 月 17 日 上午 7:42
Nifty script for launching a random installed Steam game
23
2018 年 5 月 29 日 上午 12:19
Looking for a project to replace Twitch
9
2018 年 1 月 1 日 下午 11:11
7 Days to Die can´t start
64
7 月 19 日 下午 2:48
remove GNU from the group description and promotional materials
Maleko 發表:
Well, they are against non-free software from an ethical standpoint. Steam is non-free software as are most of the games. But wouldn't you prefer if Steam and all the games were FOSS? Of course, but that isn't realistic. I don't expect a 5 star chef to give out his recipes either.

"However, if you're going to use these games, you're better off using them on GNU/Linux rather than on Microsoft Windows. At least you avoid the harm to your freedom that Windows would do."

It's not what I would call disparaging. Anyway, I guess whoever wrote the group's description wanted it that way. I call it Linux, but I don't mind if others want to call it GNU/Linux. If you don't want to use the term "GNU/Linux" then don't.
Hi! I'm the person who originally wrote the group description, and while I am in general terms aligned with GNU philosophies (there are some legitimate concerns that can be raised about specific GNU/FSF actions, but I see none of them mentioned here), my main motivation for including it is recognition of the hard work and significant contribution that GNU projects have given to what we think of and experience as "Linux".

In my eyes, projects under the GNU banner provide the majority of what we recognise to be "Linux", and in a time when more and more "Linux" distributions are offering a choice of kernels, continuing to call them "Linux" (as opposed to "GNU/kFreeBSD" for example) ends up being not just inconsiderate, but also misleading.

As Maleko highlights, the Stallman's stance on Steam and proprietary games is contextually positive, so it's difficult to take arguments seriously that revolve around his anti-proprietary sentiments being relevant here (or even outside of here given that GNU/Linux distros exist independently of Steam and/or this group).

All that said, I resigned from running this group several years ago so that I could focus on game development (both proprietary and Free), and my opinions don't matter so much anymore. If the current organisers want to change the description, they have the power to do so. I, for one, hope that they do not and that this group continues to highlight the GNU and its projects' contributions to our operating systems of choice :)
3
2017 年 4 月 7 日 上午 6:34
Sorgina: Tale of Witches - Enlarge, move, freeze and more in this puzzles & platforming adventure!
6
2017 年 3 月 21 日 下午 4:26
TF2 crashes when joining match
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