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faijeya Jun 9, 2015 @ 2:40am
Master of Orion: CTS - MEGA thread!!
http://store.steampowered.com/app/298050/

Ok, so we (Wargaming) finally unveiled our take on Master of Orion:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MtQhNef17zw

In regards to the project I'm officially nobody (and absolutely in no way in marketing, to rehash that old discussion), so I can comment only on publicly available info.

UPD: a-a-and, it's out there -

Severian is the boss on the project and he lurks here, so grab your constructive keyboards and type away!


Army Pea's lets play is on the way
http://youtu.be/RqKl5duZaRw

Release Trailer

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5XPF69SjMF4

They're coming...

https://explorminate.net/2016/11/25/master-of-orion-theyre-coming-announcement/

eXplorminate's Content

eXplorminate review - https://explorminate.net/2016/08/25/master-of-orion-conquer-the-star-review/

ReeXamination #1 -https://explorminate.net/2016/12/27/master-of-orion-conquer-the-stars-reexamination-1/
Last edited by Mezmorki; Oct 22 @ 6:50am
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Showing 3,001-3,015 of 3,329 comments
Mr.Kill Jun 22, 2017 @ 6:32am 
There were just too many massive changes in NuMoo that never really helped the game. Planets needed food and couldn't export it. Diminishing returns on production really makes building ships take forever. Most ships past the first two hull sizes take way too long to build to the point that you will never build them. Destroying your enemies takes way too long and thus fails to feel satisfying.

Both Moo1 and Moo2 are relatively fast paced. There were plenty of terrible choices in NuMoo that were being railed against (Real-time combat with no ship tactics at all for example was universally criticised). Few if any of these terrible choices were fixed. The only one I can recall that people complained about and it actually got fixed was the lack of leaders. Basically everything else never got fixed. Combat is still terrible. Killing your enemies is boring. I don't want to conquer the stars in Master of Orion conquer the stars because it reminds me of chores.

If we really want to push the argument that immature complainers ruined the game (like it sort of did with Eugen's Act of aggression), we need to actually list changes to the game that occurred because whiners that didn't make the game better. The only one I can list is leaders, but that's only because leaders weren't given any real bonuses that made that all that useful and that is really on the dev's and not the whiners.
TheFunMachine. Jun 22, 2017 @ 7:23am 
Eh, I remember building battleships en masse and thinking it never took that many turns. Titans were meant to be... Titans? I dunno, I just do not remember build times for large ships to be egregious.
RayFowler Jun 22, 2017 @ 7:41am 
Originally posted by Mr.Kill:
The only one I can recall that people complained about and it actually got fixed was the lack of leaders.

I was always under the impression that MOO4 was a MOO2 remake and that the Antarans, leaders and 3 MOO2 races would be eventually added.

I think the whole thing was a lose-lose proposition for Wargaming but I appreciate them trying to revive a franchise for a bunch of fans that would rather live in a "what if" universe in where their favorite game from the 90s is still popular if only X and Y had been different.
Last edited by RayFowler; Jun 22, 2017 @ 7:41am
Emperator Orionii Jun 22, 2017 @ 7:59am 
In general I don't mind changes. I see some merit behind them but I also see they were half baked. Farmer/worker/scientist slots (diminishing returns and unavailability due to climate) for example were not sanity checked for edge cases. During EA it was possible to end up with a colony which could not feed even 1 pop or would take whole game to grow 2nd pop.

When the game was announced they were bragging about bringing the original team and people quickly noticed that Steve Barcia was not among them. They were quite tight-lipped about who were programmers and who was game designer. That information was impossible to get if you didn't participate in EA before release and after release it turned out it they didn't have that role. Instead they had "game director" role who was in charge of "sustaing a coherent vision" so I imagine programmers were guess working through game rules on their own. On the other hand they had very complex task of bringing these three things together: making an game, balancing a game and making it accessible to non-hardcore players. That would usually be task for three different kinds of workers: programmers, game designers and UX experts. Ambition level was like stock FPS ^3 (cubed).
RayFowler Jun 22, 2017 @ 9:14am 
They announced the game was being developed by NGD Studios on Day 1. You could go to their website and see who they were and what they had made. It wasn't impossible to get.

The real problem is that they never had any intention of making the game that most MOO2 fans wanted or expected them to make.
Last edited by RayFowler; Jun 22, 2017 @ 9:15am
Mr.Kill Jun 22, 2017 @ 9:27am 
Originally posted by TheFunMachine.:
Eh, I remember building battleships en masse and thinking it never took that many turns. Titans were meant to be... Titans? I dunno, I just do not remember build times for large ships to be egregious.

I just booted up the game on the family account and double checked. On a high production planet, still takes 20 turns to build a battleship and even more for a titan. Anything over 5 turns is too much for any ship, especially when battles are to the death.
ashbery76 Jun 22, 2017 @ 10:10am 
irrational lashing out?

What twaddle.The pre release trolling was all about starlanes,real time combat and continued well after release.


I never had an issue with building big ships either.You could get some monster production worlds.I dont really see Moo2 mechanics being anything but simple apart from the tactical combat that the A.I could not use very well anyway.It was based on Civ2 after all.

Mr.Kill Jun 22, 2017 @ 10:36am 
Originally posted by ashbery76:
irrational lashing out?

What twaddle.The pre release trolling was all about starlanes,real time combat and continued well after release.


I never had an issue with building big ships either.You could get some monster production worlds.I dont really see Moo2 mechanics being anything but simple apart from the tactical combat that the A.I could not use very well anyway.It was based on Civ2 after all.

Huh guess its just me. I'm basically stuck in a game where it takes forever to do anything. Maybe I messed with the game speed settings?
ashbery76 Jun 22, 2017 @ 10:39am 
I've played with normal production but you can set it to fast.
ilitarist Jun 22, 2017 @ 10:46am 
I don't think it was right to remake MOO2 or listen to fans for that matter. The only thing I miss from it was a research system with alternatives but I understand it would be hard to sell to modern audience - indeed, it's hard to explain why our scientists refuse to work on shields after we've researched mass drivers - but it's was such an important part of the game creating assymetric experience on the fly instead of forcing them on factions. It would work better with Stellaris/Endless Space 2 approach or something.

It just felt boring. Battles weren't complex enough for me to get interest in as I would in something like Age of Wonders 3 and quick combat didn't reflect technological or design choices and supremacy. They spend resources on live orchestra and famous voice actors but not on refining the formula and pacing and balance. I understand it's not a zero sum game - Wargaming had money to throw and throwing the money at developers instead of orchestra and actors wouldn't result in a better game automatically - but something felt off. Maybe it'd become a masterpiece with continuous updates but it seems like it's abandoned. A pity.
TheFunMachine. Jun 22, 2017 @ 11:08am 
Originally posted by Mr.Kill:
Originally posted by TheFunMachine.:
Eh, I remember building battleships en masse and thinking it never took that many turns. Titans were meant to be... Titans? I dunno, I just do not remember build times for large ships to be egregious.

I just booted up the game on the family account and double checked. On a high production planet, still takes 20 turns to build a battleship and even more for a titan. Anything over 5 turns is too much for any ship, especially when battles are to the death.

Weird.. I seriously don't remember it like that. I'll have a look for myself and see if I can replicate sometime later :)
Emperator Orionii Jun 25, 2017 @ 3:52am 
Originally posted by Imirak:
They announced the game was being developed by NGD Studios on Day 1. You could go to their website and see who they were and what they had made. It wasn't impossible to get.

The real problem is that they never had any intention of making the game that most MOO2 fans wanted or expected them to make.
It's a bit presumptuous to think that whole 50 man strong company is going to work on single project and still there is and was no information on who is doing what on the project.

About the other remark, they were showing intention to remake MoO 2. They were doing it in a weird way, claiming to remake MoO 1 while showing obvious MoO 2 inspiration and throwing business speak about MoO 1&2 "story items". Even with starlanes, real time combat and blander racial traits it could have had stellar reception (not necesserly from MoO 2 fans but from some target audience) if they followed through with all decisions they made.
Nasarog Jun 25, 2017 @ 4:07am 
Originally posted by Emperator Orionii:
Originally posted by Imirak:
They announced the game was being developed by NGD Studios on Day 1. You could go to their website and see who they were and what they had made. It wasn't impossible to get.

The real problem is that they never had any intention of making the game that most MOO2 fans wanted or expected them to make.
It's a bit presumptuous to think that whole 50 man strong company is going to work on single project and still there is and was no information on who is doing what on the project.

About the other remark, they were showing intention to remake MoO 2. They were doing it in a weird way, claiming to remake MoO 1 while showing obvious MoO 2 inspiration and throwing business speak about MoO 1&2 "story items". Even with starlanes, real time combat and blander racial traits it could have had stellar reception (not necesserly from MoO 2 fans but from some target audience) if they followed through with all decisions they made.

Okay, here's how I understand the situation. SOmeone at Wargaming.net (not Chris Keeling) got inserted between him and NGD and they were countermanding his orders and inputing their own. Feedback that he compiled, collated and presented went ignored so that this person who be heard of all others.That is why the game feels "off". Then there was the major "ball-drop" from PR and that had to do with even more mismanagement at another level. That's the gist of it.
Mr.Kill Jun 25, 2017 @ 5:52am 
Originally posted by Nasarog:
Originally posted by Emperator Orionii:
It's a bit presumptuous to think that whole 50 man strong company is going to work on single project and still there is and was no information on who is doing what on the project.

About the other remark, they were showing intention to remake MoO 2. They were doing it in a weird way, claiming to remake MoO 1 while showing obvious MoO 2 inspiration and throwing business speak about MoO 1&2 "story items". Even with starlanes, real time combat and blander racial traits it could have had stellar reception (not necesserly from MoO 2 fans but from some target audience) if they followed through with all decisions they made.

Okay, here's how I understand the situation. SOmeone at Wargaming.net (not Chris Keeling) got inserted between him and NGD and they were countermanding his orders and inputing their own. Feedback that he compiled, collated and presented went ignored so that this person who be heard of all others.That is why the game feels "off". Then there was the major "ball-drop" from PR and that had to do with even more mismanagement at another level. That's the gist of it.

So its just like how Master of Orion 3 got ruined so badly?
Emperator Orionii Jun 25, 2017 @ 8:20am 
Originally posted by Nasarog:
Okay, here's how I understand the situation. SOmeone at Wargaming.net (not Chris Keeling) got inserted between him and NGD and they were countermanding his orders and inputing their own. Feedback that he compiled, collated and presented went ignored so that this person who be heard of all others.That is why the game feels "off". Then there was the major "ball-drop" from PR and that had to do with even more mismanagement at another level. That's the gist of it.
Auch, that's sad to hear. I work in big company (2k employees) working under even bigger company (20k employees) in other country, I know how mere miscommunication can be problematic. Fortunately I've never witnessed an internal sabotage but it's easy to imagine how a single stubborn manager can derail whole system. I feel sorry for Chris Keeling for getting all the flak.



Originally posted by Mr.Kill:
So its just like how Master of Orion 3 got ruined so badly?
MoO:CtS is miles better, it's decent, actually managed repair some franchise reputation damage from MoO 3 and bring it to a positive zero. I can't talk about people behind the project but technology was much better this time. MoO 3 team had to code basically everything on their own while CtS team leveraged quite powerful and stable Unity engine.
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