STEAM GROUP
IndieGameStand gamestand
STEAM GROUP
IndieGameStand gamestand
32
IN-GAME
166
ONLINE
Founded
November 16, 2012
Language
English
Location
United States 
Godofhellfire Jul 24, 2017 @ 3:29am
Time to say...?
t would be the right time to make an official statement, what's happening with Indiegamestand and our keys! We all wait for the relaunch for months now! Don't treat your customers like dumb persons!
Last edited by Godofhellfire; Jul 24, 2017 @ 3:29am
< >
Showing 1-15 of 24 comments
Player Review Jul 24, 2017 @ 1:14pm 
Disclaimer: Really long, probably redundant rant below. TL;DR: This group is not affiliated with the IndieGameStand site or ownership, so I don't think members here can answer your inquiry, though agree with you wholeheartedly.

------------------

I'm completely unsure what the new owners are doing. I've never been in communication with them. Things have been awkward for many months now though and an almost complete lack of communication to customers. IGS was a fantastic idea and was ran very well for quite awhile after its launch in 2012 through 2016 or so, then things just started to fade.

The domain expires in August and is likely also up for renewal of its security certificate. I'm unsure how or if the new owners plan on moving things forward. I have been involved in non-IGS site and database migrations and honestly, it shouldn't have taken more than a day. Perhaps they lack the knowledge on how to migrate a database? It can only be speculated upon and I don't think the current owners are in the Steam group.

Feel free to openly discuss this here in any way. Mike Gnade and Dan Liebner were and are visionaries to launch IGS and the many industry leading innovations it came to introduce over the time it was overseen by Mike. It is sad that the current downfall under the new ownership is negatively affecting the customers that Mike cared so much for. It could even be that the new owners are looking to sell the site and the 'migration' is part of a semi-truth on this intention, but that is pure speculation on my part.

In any case, at this point I think it is fair to say that as customers, we've all been neglected and treated so poorly that a relaunch or migration may never be able to recover consumer trust again. Unless it went back to Mike (still not sure he sold it, but I suspect so as his social media hasn't discussed IGS in a long time to my knowledge (maybe mid-2016 or so)). I believe it became so time consuming and wasn't producing enough profit at the end to make it worthwhile when he has so many other ideas and ambitions. He also started IndieGameMagazine back when the Indie genre wasn't mainstream accepted, then later sold it. He's a great guy, but you can't always guarantee that the people you sell your site to have the same customer loyalty and passion as you do.

While any of us could easily reach out to him to verify if/when he sold it or still has any stake in the company, I just haven't personally had the ambition to. I'm confident he'd answer inquiries on the matter. I suppose I would be willing to ask him, in the event nobody else wants to. Maybe we could get him to post on this group a brief statement as to when/if he sold IGS.

This Steam group was created by him on my behest, a relatively long time ago. I could have him delete the group, but it is still a forum (if not widely used any longer) where we can have discussions like the one you're posting on; But, without a site to be proud of at this time (since it has been offline for month(s), it is almost more just a reminder of a great idea that was carried out that revolutionized the way the industry did things (including every major bundle site, even Humble). To my knowledge, IGS was the first 1 game indie deal site, they were setting up the storefront before Loot or whatever that site was called did, they had one of the closest developer to customer communications systems ever, one (if not the first) subscription services (this is where I think they inspired Humble) and a number of other trendsetting ideas (many of which fostered Indie growth and consumer respect for Indies). Many developers loved that they got their money very quickly compared to other sites and didn't have a $500 type requirement like Desura had. They could get their game featured on IGS and make more in 4 days than they could years of being on Desura. Their feature could often see a very real jolt in their Steam Greenlight upvotes, back when being Greenlit meant something).

I'll always remember IGS fondly, but to me it is something in the past. It is most unfortunate though that I no longer have access to my couple hundred games in my IGS wallet, though I did salvage all my Steam keys at least. Lots of DRM-Free only games that I bought and forgot and now will never remember or be able to play without purchasing them all over again.

Let me know what you think. Should the Steam group stay up, as a remaining forum for the members and developers that joined in days past, or is it maybe a good idea to delete the group? I'm certainly not affiliated with IndieGameStand, but as the first moderator on this group still feel some responsibility to answer questions here that are, for the most part, unanswerable.

This group has no affilition with those that currently run IGS, it was essentially a fan-forum for IGS, or whatever those groups are called. I'm very proud to have been a part of one of the best communities back when Mike was at the helm of IGS and it is very unfortunate to see where things have gone since then.

In short, I don't think anyone in this group can answer your question, since this group isn't 'IndieGameStand', despite the name. But, I think we would all like to see what you're asking for, though I have no idea where you would submit the question and if it would ever be answered.
Godofhellfire Jul 24, 2017 @ 11:38pm 
Thank you so much for the clarification, information and emotional text! And excuse my little rude opening of this thread: But IGS was a very good idea and site, so there is frustration that it vanished.

I understand that Mike has (probably) sold his idea and website, this is his right. But what's not okay from his side, is the lack of communicating this to us, the consumers. Lots of misunderstandings and misinterpretings would have been avoided, if he was honest and open-minded talking to the community of IGS.
That the new owners of IGS do not manage to get the site back again, is sad. And they do not communicate on any canals in the internet, too. How can we understand, what's happening, when there is just a sentence on white screen? Or like today nothing at all? Unfortunately the advantage from IGS, to offer DRM-free Indiegames is beating us back: All of the data will be lost, cool packages and games not on steam and so on. Most of us will have redeemed our Steam-keys, though.

What concerns this group, I have no problem with letting it alive; but maybe you have to write some info anywhere, that IGS is (nearly) dead and you are not affiliated with the new owners,

Again thanks for your kind answer and we will see, what will happen next (if anything). Maybe I'm going to write on facebook to Mike... :140Stop:
devotee Jul 25, 2017 @ 9:29am 
I've been charged $29 today for my for my Quarterly Elite Membership subscription, even if I've tried to contact IGS for a month to ask them what was going to happen to Elite subscriber and, a week ago, to ask them to cancel my subscription and to avoid charging me with the subscription renewal. Of course, I didn't receive any answer.

I've contacted Stripe and they have been very helpful (irony), they just told me: "Hi there. We can't initiate refunds for businesses, so we suggest that you reach out to the business directly". After a more extensive explanation, they gave me an extended answer (now in Spanish) but that was mainly the same: "we can't do anything about it, go dispute the payment with your bank". Which I'm doing but it's a pain in the ass because they might ask me to file a police report and I might even have to replace my current card for a new one, leaving me a few days unable to make card payments. Great.

The last thing I heard from Mike was on Twitter and it wasn't good news. I'd love to know who is actual owner of IGS, because I'd harass him until he refunds me the last two IGS Elite Membership subscriptions and he sends me my game keys (Steam and non-Steam) from my IGS account (I tried to recover all my keys when things looked bad, but there was a limit on how many keys you could reveal each day, so I couldn't retrieve all of them -it would have taken me weeks thanks to that stupid limitation-). So if anyone can tell me who is the actual IGS owner, I'd be grateful.

Regarding this group, I'd keep it as an archive since it contains quite a lot of useful information (even if IGS never comes back). What I'd do if I were you is to clearly state what you wrote on this discussion via an announcement on the front page so people won't bother you too much thinking you have something to do with the site, or that you can help IGS customers in any way.
Player Review Jul 25, 2017 @ 1:38pm 
Originally posted by devotee:
Regarding this group, I'd keep it as an archive since it contains quite a lot of useful information (even if IGS never comes back). What I'd do if I were you is to clearly state what you wrote on this discussion via an announcement on the front page so people won't bother you too much thinking you have something to do with the site, or that you can help IGS customers in any way.
I agree with you. I've reached out to Mike, but only via Steam, which he doesn't always check. I'll reach out to Matt tommorow (or so, depending on my time and energy) on a couple channels and see if I can get comment from him. Matt was in charge of marketing and later I believe became co-owner or at least co-ran the site with Mike (his co-management was sometime after Mike bought out Dan's share of IGS). If I don't have anything by the week's end or so, since I'd prefer one of them make such announcement, then I will do an announcement (in a nutshell) and attempt to avoid any speculation and just what I truly know. It won't be any sort of rant like I initially responded with, because I obviously am almost as clueless as to what is going on as anyone else in the community. It is probably the Elite members that I empathize the most with, though all of us with game wallets have lost content we paid for (at least for the last months and unforeseeable future). I believe it is a registered company and all that, so if I really had the energy, I'm sure I could locate the business address and contacts registered (but, I don't see myself wanting to exert that energy, but someone could).

So, I'll do what I can to get someone more in the loop to announce. If I, or anyone else is unable to contact them to provide a better explanation, then I'll post an announcement as aforementioned. Great idea of yours and thanks to everyone in the thread for sharing your experiences (good and otherwise). This damage really needs to be mitigated.
devotee Jul 25, 2017 @ 2:16pm 
Originally posted by Player Review:
I believe it is a registered company and all that, so if I really had the energy, I'm sure I could locate the business address and contacts registered (but, I don't see myself wanting to exert that energy, but someone could).

I think the new owner(s) did not even update that. The phone number that was sent in the e-mail receipts was Mike's Graduate Games old(?) number: (320) 379-whatever :apafrog:
canj Jul 28, 2017 @ 2:57pm 
Hey everyone, just want to clear up a few details after reading through this post. Mike and I (Matt) sold IndieGameStand to new owners in August '16. Mike stayed on to help with some development in the Fall but we've had no access since the sale. The new owner requested we did not make a large deal of the sale, as is common with many small businesses.

Unfortunately, there is nothing that we can do at this point. Personally, I dedicated over 4 years of my life to IndieGameStand and it pains me to see this happening. Mike and I are great friends and talk regularly, he has a family now and I've moved on to other projects.

A few of the community members have reached out to me already and it's incredibly frustrating to feel so powerless. We spent so much time and energy fostering a great reputation for years without receiving almost anything in financial return.

Mike and I needed to sell IGS when we did, and Ben (the current owner) was the most suitable candidate at that time. If for some reason I receive any information, I will do my best to pass it on to this community.

Again, my deepest apologies to anyone who has been affected by the loss of their IGS wallet and games. Hopefully there is a rational explanation for this downtime.

- Matt
@mattcanj
MIDIManNI Jul 30, 2017 @ 10:59am 
Sadly like many others it seems I paid for an Elite Subscription of $99.00 just this year and have had Nothing in return and no way of getting it back it seems... it is theft - plain and simple.
Last edited by MIDIManNI; Jul 30, 2017 @ 11:01am
The Chaos Engine Jul 31, 2017 @ 9:50am 
Let's hope all the STEAM keys that we activated on STEAM won't get deactivated resulting removal of the corresponding games form our STEAM accounts.

It's a real shame that IndieGameStand went silent (offline), it was a great indie games site. :/
Last edited by The Chaos Engine; Sep 1, 2017 @ 6:20am
devotee Aug 1, 2017 @ 9:21am 
Originally posted by MIDIManNI:
Sadly like many others it seems I paid for an Elite Subscription of $99.00 just this year

Wow, that sucks! I think I finally managed to locate Ben Chong on Facebook. I sent him a private message a day ago and I still have to hear from him, despite being active on that social network (he shared a picture there like 12 hours ago). Not sure if it's the correct Ben Chong, though :saddie:

EDITED: Changed FB link.
Last edited by devotee; Aug 1, 2017 @ 9:40pm
SickTeddyBear Aug 1, 2017 @ 9:12pm 
Originally posted by devotee:
Originally posted by MIDIManNI:
Sadly like many others it seems I paid for an Elite Subscription of $99.00 just this year

Wow, that sucks! I think I finally managed to locate Ben Chong on Facebook. I sent him a private message a day ago and I still have to hear from him, despite being active on that social network (he shared a picture there like 12 hours ago). Not sure if it's the correct Ben Chong, though :saddie:

If you're not sure, what made you even assume that you had the right one, even just a little bit? Just the name?
devotee Aug 1, 2017 @ 9:43pm 
Originally posted by SickTeddyBear:
If you're not sure, what made you even assume that you had the right one, even just a little bit? Just the name?
Sorry, my mistake... I posted a link to the wrong FB profile, I've corrected it. The current link is the one I sent a few messages to (still waiting).

Should be the correct one because of the friends and a couple of the FB groups he is in.
SickTeddyBear Aug 1, 2017 @ 10:32pm 
Originally posted by devotee:
Originally posted by SickTeddyBear:
If you're not sure, what made you even assume that you had the right one, even just a little bit? Just the name?
Sorry, my mistake... I posted a link to the wrong FB profile, I've corrected it. The current link is the one I sent a few messages to (still waiting).

Should be the correct one because of the friends and a couple of the FB groups he is in.

OK, that may be the right person, because of the scarf. This is the person I was looking at:

https://twitter.com/malayben

https://medium.com/@marketjs

https://www.linkedin.com/in/marketjs

https://www.quora.com/profile/Ben-Chong-3

http://www.gamasutra.com/blogs/author/BenChong/910876/

His company:

https://angel.co/marketjs-1

https://www.marketjs.com/about

And a Twitter note about a stolen game on his company's web site:

https://twitter.com/photonstorm/status/885499469726351360

He's actually involved in the gaming industry and has a focus on corporate branding and marketing, and my fear is that IndieGameStand has fallen apart because he intends to change it into something other than what it already was. This person is not interested in indie gaming, and he's going to use the IGS brand for something else.
Tex Murphy Aug 3, 2017 @ 6:53am 
I was able to dig up some e-mail addresses for this guy:

benchong86@gmail.com
ben@indiegamestand.com
ben@marketjs.com
paypal@indiegamestand.com

Edit: added more addresses
Last edited by Tex Murphy; Aug 3, 2017 @ 2:52pm
MIDIManNI Aug 4, 2017 @ 2:00am 
I think this is truly disgraceful behaviour from a company that I held in high regard...They take my $99.00 renewal fee and at the same time shut up shop...Now they definately knew they were closing so why did they basically STEAL from me (and others)?
They did so because they knew they could get away with it...the fact that their Staff Members have gone into "hiding" and no longer reply, confirms this.
If this was a UK Company, I would be able to do something about it but because they are in the US and I am in N. Ireland, my hands are tied. I certainly understand that many companies face hardships and close all the time but the least they could have done was to contact Subscribers and let them know what was happenning and make some financial reparation.
I would not have minded SO much if I had paid my Annual Sub this year and even got some games from them but I got none yet they took my cash.
Time to start posting on their Twitter & FB Pages and blacken their names and cause as much upset for them as possible methinks...

Last edited by MIDIManNI; Aug 4, 2017 @ 2:06am
Player Review Aug 4, 2017 @ 1:19pm 
Originally posted by MIDIManNI:
I think this is truly disgraceful behaviour from a company that I held in high regard...They take my $99.00 renewal fee and at the same time shut up shop...Now they definately knew they were closing so why did they basically STEAL from me (and others)?
I'd probably be doing the same, to make life not as easy for the current owners. I'd issue a chargeback on my card (payment option) for goods not received. I'd report them to Better Business Bureau (BBB) and would make posts bringing to light the injustices. I wasn't an elite member, so my investment isn't enough for me to do so, but if I put myself in your shoes... I'd probably do the things you're mentioning. I'm overly nice, so I probably wouldn't be posting mean stuff, but I'd certainly make sure the facts were out there. Maybe even contact some YouTubers, like Jim Sterling and see if he'd do a Jimquisition on it.
< >
Showing 1-15 of 24 comments
Per page: 15 30 50