i9-11900 - 65W TDP - too high TDP

[in]

Have MSI MEG Z590I UNIFY latst bios. When i run Cinebecnh R23 benchmark, the TDP is 130+, far out of the 65W TDP this CPU is rated for. Why? How can i change this?

https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=2648797919

[Monk]

Makes perfect sense, the TDP isn't under heavy loads and isn't harmful in anyway.

[in]

Cinebench is heavy CPU load - i dont understand. Why is the CPU not limited to 65W ?

[Monk]

Because your asking it to be pushed to its max performance accross all cores, if it sat at 65w you'd loose most of the performance along with it, but, I don't get why it really matters.

Honestly, if you want to do production work, you bought an awful chip gir it as the 12th gen is a bit of a dumpster fire.

[in]

it's a mini gaming PC with 3070 - small system. I want to figure out WHY this is happening and tune the CPU to run as cool as possible

[nullable]

https://www.anandtech.com/show/13544/why-intel-processors-draw-more-power-than-expected-tdp-turbo

There's a bit more nuance to TDP than you might realize. The TDP Intel often states is based on the base lock, not the turbo boost clock.

The reality is no one cares about the base clock, we just get big ass coolers and that can run the CPU at max turbo boost nigh indefinitely. And the power draw at max turbo boost is naturally much higher than base clock.

Disable Turbo Boost, and you'll be a lot closer to 65 watts I'm sure. But you probably don't want to give up that performance either because your expectations about power usage weren't met.

[_I_]

intel way underrated the tdp on the 10-11th gen cpus
at idle or light load it will be under the rated tdp, but at full load it will be about 2x the rated tdp

cinebench is an unrealistic workload, the cpu will very rarely be at that kind of load even with more demanding real world jobs

you cant change it, its how the cpu works
as long as the board can deliver the power needed, its fine

130+w cpus were not uncommon even 10+ years ago
fx9 was 220w, i7 920-970 were 130w


12900k appears to be rated more correctly
https://ark.intel.com/content/www/us/en/ark/products/134599/intel-core-i912900k-processor-30m-cache-up-to-5-20-ghz.html
Processor Base Power = 125 W
Maximum Turbo Power = 241 W

[in]

thanks for the info, i was not aware the TDP in reality is lot highter. I'll try undevolting.
Anyone has good tested values of voltage for i9-11900 ? If i limit the clock to 4.6GHz would be fine

[_I_]

check on overclock.net
they have good guides on most cpus

[r.linder]

TDP doesn't mean max power draw. For Intel, it's the power expected to be used when the CPU is running at its base clock, that's it. When the CPU is boosting, it's using more power.

AMD's TDP is based on thermal watts and not power draw at all; their 65W Ryzen CPUs have a stock power draw limit of 88W from the socket, their 105W CPUs have a stock limit of 142W.

So let this be a lesson learned: TDP doesn't mean anything. Companies have their own definitions and calculations for TDP, and since they don't ever line up properly, it means nothing.

[Monk]

As long as a cpu isn't throttling temp doesn't really matter, it could happily run at 90c (Intel) all its life and not care just as easily as at 45c.

[Illusion of Progress]

Originally posted by Escorve:

AMD's TDP is based on thermal watts and not power draw at all; their 65W Ryzen CPUs have a stock power draw limit of 88W from the socket, their 105W CPUs have a stock limit of 142W.

Furthermore, I wonder and think that 88W value may be for the cores alone, and not the entire CPU. At least, on my Ryzen 7 3700X, HW Monitor will often show 88W in particular as the highest value the cores will collectively be able to run to, but the CPU as a whole will reflect up to ~125W or so.

[r.linder]

Originally posted by Illusion of Progress:

Originally posted by Escorve:

AMD's TDP is based on thermal watts and not power draw at all; their 65W Ryzen CPUs have a stock power draw limit of 88W from the socket, their 105W CPUs have a stock limit of 142W.

Furthermore, I wonder and think that 88W value may be for the cores alone, and not the entire CPU. At least, on my Ryzen 7 3700X, HW Monitor will often show 88W in particular as the highest value the cores will collectively be able to run to, but the CPU as a whole will reflect up to ~125W or so.

PPT is just the total power pulled from the socket itself, I don't think it necessarily means it CAN'T draw more power from elsewhere

[Illusion of Progress]

Originally posted by Escorve:

Originally posted by Illusion of Progress:

Furthermore, I wonder and think that 88W value may be for the cores alone, and not the entire CPU. At least, on my Ryzen 7 3700X, HW Monitor will often show 88W in particular as the highest value the cores will collectively be able to run to, but the CPU as a whole will reflect up to ~125W or so.

PPT is just the total power pulled from the socket itself, I don't think it necessarily means it CAN'T draw more power from elsewhere

Oh, I'm... not quite sure what PPT is.

I was just adding that the actual power use could possibly be higher than the 88W you stated, further supporting the notion that TDP often isn't an accurate measure of wattage used.

[r.linder]

Originally posted by Illusion of Progress:

Originally posted by Escorve:

PPT is just the total power pulled from the socket itself, I don't think it necessarily means it CAN'T draw more power from elsewhere

Oh, I'm... not quite sure what PPT is.

I was just adding that the actual power use could possibly be higher than the 88W you stated, further supporting the notion that TDP often isn't an accurate measure of wattage used.

One of the three power limits on AM4.

PPT = total power the CPU can draw from the socket

TDC = sustained current limit (long term, thermally constrained)

EDC = peak current limit (short term, electrically constrained)

[Illusion of Progress]

Oh, I see.

I just noticed in HWMonitor (which is one reference point) that if I leave it open in the background, after a day of use, I tend to see the combined power draw of the cores at 88W and the total CPU watts anywhere between 100W and 125W, so based on that I was thinking maybe the 88W "limit" was for the cores themselves and the SoC as a whole might be able to go higher, but I'm not sure.