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redeemerke Jan 22, 2015 @ 2:49am
Steam Refunds Tips : Valve ignores European law?
I have bought a game recently but I did not read that there was a 3th party DRM service called UPlay involved.

Naturally I did not want any part of this. I did not see any problems because Steam is, by Eurpean law ( http://europa.eu/youreurope/citizens/shopping/shopping-abroad/returning-unwanted-goods/index_en.htm ) obliged to give me a refund if I ask for it in 14 days. I asked for it the day after.

However, Steam support decides to ignore my request. It looks like they dont even read the things I ask or say and just spout out standard answers that are not accurate.


Does anyone have some experience with this? How do I best proceed to enforce my right?
I am considering a lawsuit, since I see no way to loose, but I am a fan of steam and valve so I'd rather not have it come to that. It is extremely frustrating and dissappointing to see how they handle their support however, its the first contact I had with them.

Regards,
R.
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Showing 1-15 of 26 comments
TastyToast Jan 22, 2015 @ 2:52am 
lol
Middle Sister Jan 22, 2015 @ 2:54am 
What game is it?
Teutep Jan 22, 2015 @ 2:59am 
Really? You didn't bother read, thus you bought the product and now you feel violated?

Also, as far as it comes down to, you agreed to the Steam Subscriber Agreement.
http://store.steampowered.com/subscriber_agreement/

->
Originally posted by SSA:
3. BILLING, PAYMENT AND OTHER SUBSCRIPTIONS

ALL CHARGES INCURRED ON STEAM, AND ALL PURCHASES MADE WITH THE STEAM WALLET, ARE PAYABLE IN ADVANCE AND ARE NOT REFUNDABLE IN WHOLE OR IN PART, REGARDLESS OF THE PAYMENT METHOD, EXCEPT AS EXPRESSLY SET FORTH IN THIS AGREEMENT.

IF YOU ARE AN EU SUBSCRIBER YOU HAVE THE RIGHT TO WITHDRAW FROM A PURCHASE TRANSACTION FOR DIGITAL CONTENT WITHOUT CHARGE AND WITHOUT GIVING ANY REASON UNTIL DELIVERY OF SUCH CONTENT HAS STARTED OR PERFORMANCE OF THE SERVICE HAS COMMENCED. YOU DO NOT HAVE A RIGHT TO WITHDRAW FROM A TRANSACTION OR OBTAIN A REFUND ONCE DELIVERY OF THE CONTENT HAS STARTED OR THE PERFORMANCE OF THE SERVICE HAS COMMENCED, AT WHICH POINT YOUR TRANSACTION IS FINAL. YOU AGREE THAT DELIVERY OF DIGITAL CONTENT, AND THE ASSOCIATED SUBSCRIPTION, AND/OR PERFORMANCE OF THE ASSOCIATED SERVICE, COMMENCES AT THE MOMENT THE DIGITAL CONTENT IS ADDED TO YOUR ACCOUNT OR INVENTORY OR OTHERWISE MADE ACCESSIBLE TO YOU FOR DOWNLOAD OR USE.

Also, since it's Uplay, you'd have more luck contacting Ubisoft for refunds, as Steam is the one working in the middle.

Edit: May I ask, what game are you talking about by the way?
I see Rayman: Origins in your most recent 2 weeks with 0.1 hours, so I was assuming it's that (It's an Ubisoft game too at that), but that game does NOT use Uplay surprisingly enough.

http://steamcommunity.com/app/207490/discussions/0/558748653741823246/#c558748822634785889
Last edited by Teutep; Jan 22, 2015 @ 3:03am
redeemerke Jan 22, 2015 @ 3:03am 
@Teutep : Yes, I read that agreement. It is not valid however, even when I agreed to it.

European Law overrides that EULA, stating that I have the right to a refund in the first 14 days of purchase.

edit: Also, since I bought from Steam, its at Steam I have to ask for a refund, not at Ubisoft.

@Middle Sister : Might and Magic : Heroes VI
Last edited by redeemerke; Jan 22, 2015 @ 3:07am
Middle Sister Jan 22, 2015 @ 3:05am 
Originally posted by redeemerke:
@Middle Sister : Might and Magic : Heroes VI

"Incorporates 3rd-party DRM: Ubisoft Online Service Platform"

It says this on the store page.
Hextravert Jan 22, 2015 @ 3:06am 
Who didn't read first here?

You have the gall to complain about their standard, inaccurate answers—yet you were the one who missed something as unmistakable and important as a 3rd-party DRM warning to begin with.

Unfortunately, you don't have a leg to stand on .

Originally posted by redeemerke:
I have bought a game recently but I did not read that there was a 3th party DRM service called UPlay involved.

Originally posted by redeemerke:
It looks like they dont even read the things I ask or say and just spout out standard answers that are not accurate.
redeemerke Jan 22, 2015 @ 3:06am 
@Hextravert : Fortunately I do have a leg to stand on. European law overrides their EULA, therefore I am entitled to a refund. The law also states I don't even have to give a reason to why I want this refund.

edit: Also, I am not denying I did not read the warnings correctly, as I am to blame for that. This does not change my right to a refund by European law.

Last edited by redeemerke; Jan 22, 2015 @ 3:08am
redeemerke Jan 22, 2015 @ 3:10am 
Originally posted by Middle Sister:

"Incorporates 3rd-party DRM: Ubisoft Online Service Platform"

It says this on the store page.

I am aware of this. It does not change the right to a refund.


A quote from the EU law :

You also enjoy the right of withdrawal within 14 days from concluding the contract for online digital content. However, once you start downloading or streaming the content you may no longer withdraw from the purchase, provided that the trader has complied with his obligations. Specifically, the trader must first obtain your explicit agreement to the immediate download or streaming, and you must explicitly acknowledge that you lose your right to withdraw once the performance has started.
Last edited by redeemerke; Jan 22, 2015 @ 3:12am
Teutep Jan 22, 2015 @ 3:12am 
http://steamcommunity.com/discussions/forum/search/?q=European+law

To quote TirithRR from another thread
Originally posted by TirithRR:
There are certain exceptions to the European laws that allow for no refunds on digital content once delivered. If I remember right they are listed right after the most commonly quoted sections of the law. But are not read or just plain ignored by most users when the topic comes up.
http://steamcommunity.com/discussions/forum/10/35222218799661277/#c35222218800001742
spoof Jan 22, 2015 @ 3:13am 
it does for vavle.

if the store page failed to say it uses uplay valve would give your money back.
Last edited by spoof; Jan 22, 2015 @ 3:13am
redeemerke Jan 22, 2015 @ 3:16am 
@Teutep

The specific conditions he quotes are the following :

You also enjoy the right of withdrawal within 14 days from concluding the contract for online digital content. However, once you start downloading or streaming the content you may no longer withdraw from the purchase, provided that the trader has complied with his obligations. Specifically, the trader must first obtain your explicit agreement to the immediate download or streaming, and you must explicitly acknowledge that you lose your right to withdraw once the performance has started.


I was not notified my right dissappeared if I tried to launch it.
Also, I did not even play the game, I launched it, saw UPlay and immediately asked for a refund.


@Spoof : The store page stated correctly that the game incporporated UPlay, I failed to read it
spoof Jan 22, 2015 @ 3:16am 
yes i understand that.
Meatbug Jan 22, 2015 @ 3:17am 
When buying here on steam, you are accepting, that you'll lose your right of withdrawal.
This is totally in line with the EU law.

By clicking "Purchase" you agree that Valve provides you immediate access to digital content as soon as you complete your purchase, without waiting the 14-day withdrawal period. Therefore, you expressly waive your right to withdraw from this purchase.

Read also this:
http://europa.eu/youreurope/citizens/shopping/buy-sell-online/rights-e-commerce/index_en.htm

Specifically, the trader must first obtain your explicit agreement to the immediate download or streaming, and you must explicitly acknowledge that you lose your right to withdraw once the performance has started.

Found under "Digital Content".
redeemerke Jan 22, 2015 @ 3:22am 
@Meatbug : So you are saying I did not have to 'play' or 'access' the content of the game but simply download it?

Since that last sentence clearly states 'performance has started'...
Teutep Jan 22, 2015 @ 3:23am 
Originally posted by redeemerke:
@Meatbug : So you are saying I did not have to 'play' or 'access' the content of the game but simply download it?

Since that last sentence clearly states 'performance has started'...
The fact you have immediate access to it removes your withdrawal period. By clicking purchase you agreed to that.

The part you should pay attention to in the Europa Law is 'the trader must first obtain your explicit agreement', which Valve did. You ticked the box upon purchase; which in this context serves as the 'performance'.
Last edited by Teutep; Jan 22, 2015 @ 3:26am
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Date Posted: Jan 22, 2015 @ 2:49am
Posts: 26