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And the reason I got defensive was because it was merely about VIDEO GAMES and the response was 50-50 "screw u idiot" and genuine dialogue for AND against me, and Amazon returns stuff when they have to destroy it much of the time, so it seemed weird at first that a digital product that could cheaply be refunded with pre-programmed commands had such strict policies. It feels like people are hypervigilant about giving others an ounce of pity unless they go through a complex screening process, and is that really necessary? I doubt people would try to dunk on/one-up you for being "stupid" or "entitled" if they weren't behind a screen. They'd say, "That's life", or say something nice about the game and something encouraging like, "I'm sure you can make more money soon. Good luck, and I hope you find value from the game", instead of acting like Pokemon fans (tm). The whole point of "Karen" is when people act so entitled that they make it a hell for everyone else. I complained QUIETLY, NOT to Steam staff, due to ignorance about the policy, and that's way different than cussing out a minimum wage worker. You don't have to be a jerk just because you don't like my attitude or perspective and want to win the "argument". Some people live just for an opportunity to act smarter and/or morally superior, and the lack of respect not just here but in modern culture at large is disgusting. Bite thy tongue, for there are greater things to get worked up about, and it's why Buddhism needs to be taught.
Companies make video games to earn money. Once you're out of the refund window, it costs those companies money to issue your refund, more so when several different companies are included in the chain. Seeing as companies don't want to lose money even for mere VIDEO GAMES they prefer to set limits for when you can be granted a refund. Limits which will have the least impact on their business while allowing you some leeway in case you have a technical problem. Just remember going forward that the refund limit for MOST places, including Steam is less than 2 hours played AND less than 2 weeks owned. It is not either / or.
Complaining on the steam forums that you can't return something that you bought on steam because you didn't read the return policy just makes you look silly.
Especially when they get argumentative about the policy when it's become the industry standard because of how fair it is, and talking about boycotting the company or worse, pirating games because they failed to read/ understand the policy to begin with.
Steam, or any other online retailer, is not obligated to give you a refund after you've downloaded a game, and that used to be how a lot of retailers outside of Steam operated. They'd let you refund a purchase within 2 weeks, but if you downloaded the game at all you couldn't refund it. Saying you're going to boycott a company that helped push the standard away from this mentality is just asinine. Saying that you're going to start pirating software so that you can steal from devs to try to affect the storefront out of spite is just criminal.
Saying that you're more than welcome to leave, and to not let the door hit you on the way out might be rude, but a fair response to someone who believes they should get a free pass to screw over devs by pirating their games because they don't agree with a refund policy. As soon as your thinking went down this route, I completely threw trying to be helpful and explanatory out the window, as I've no respect for people that do this.
I know this situation sucks but this is part of adulting: You made a mistake and now you have to cope with that mistake. Hopefully this will be a learning experience for you. Next time read the return policy before you buy something.
This does not apply to just online digital goods either. It would be a good idea to read the return policy at any retail store in real life (like walmart) before you buy something expensive there. Just go to customer service and ask about their return policy before you buy. They will be happy to explain it to you.
I specifically said that I've tried to stop pirating games, especially from indie devs, and if Gabe said piracy is a service issue than a price issue, I have a right to complain about how the paid experience is worse than the pirated experience even if money isn't a factor in the comparison. That's another issue I have with this forum. People have awful reading comprehension and are cynical. I rarely ever legally acquired PC games because I hated the idea of using a proprietary launcher (almost always bought console games tho), then I started buying Steam games since September, and I assumed it would be less of a hassle because gaming companies know they're competing with video game piracy being easier and less socially stigmatized than ever before.
HOWEVER, look at F2P games. They still make a ton of money if you personally don't pay. Same thing with many AAA games. Piracy is a first world problem for non-indie companies (especially since the work environment sucks and probably doesn't pay too well in large studios), since even though piracy is EASIER, you still have to visit sketchy sites and risk malware even with organized and well-trusted piracy communities (since some popular scenes/uploaders like I think maybe Skidrow got exposed for having crypto miners or something). And for indie devs, I've bought EVERY game I've played in the last few years, since the prices were reasonable for at least a few hours of fun (with the exception of about one game I bought that was a total dud, but it was only about 50 cents or something, so no big loss). I have legal licenses for FL Studio, Windows 10, Procreate, AnkiMobile, Spotify, and ToonSquid as well.
So don't call me a pirate. ~95% of all of my software was obtained legally. For the 5% that wasn't, I deleted as much of it as I could find while writing this post, since I didn't have much save progress and I could just reinstall the mods later since I put them all in a mods folder. It's more of a matter of waiting for my next payment than not having access.
It will be mildly inconvenient to not have an Alan Wake 2 or Cyberpunk 2077 demo for benchmarking purposes, but at least Cyberpunk 2077 might be worth actually buying. If I wanted to be a bit stingier, I could buy the most demanding games across multiple platforms only once a year (to avoid getting flagged for fraudulent refunding activity) and refund them after I've completed the benchmarks. (Or in the case of Cyberpunk 2077, I might keep it if I buy it, since it gives off a way less trashy first impression than Alan Wake 2. If anybody has any recommendations for demanding games that either DON'T suck and/or have free demos or reliable free benchmarking tools, I'd prefer that over exploiting the refund system, regardless of any excuse I'd make.) I can complain about the game industry or Steam service, even if the point I made in the OP was founded under ignorance, even more than normies because I'm one of the few people that switched from piracy to legal acquisition for moral reasons RATHER than getting a threatening letter in the mail or being too stupid to pirate without getting malware (I know the most trusted uploaders, scenes, crackers, sites, and methods, and I have good cybersecurity, so I face a low risk there and it's therefore not the reason I avoid pirating games now). My character development gives me a TAD bit more complaining privilege. If you disagree, I guess you're just too ignorant to acknowledge your own ignorance.
I didn't say my ignorance was an excuse. I'm just complaining that I had to be ignorant to something that didn't feel intuitive. The pieces should just connect without the BS. I assumed with the rampant competition from piracy, different game stores, consoles, and occasionally physical releases for PC games that there wouldn't have been a TWO WEEK refund policy. I've never heard of a TWO WEEK refund policy before this post. It was either YES or NO, not this weird middle-ground nonsense. Most brick-and-mortar stores have a ONE MONTH refund policy. I don't know why digital games, which are inconvenient because you can't sell them, they require a launcher, often have DRM, and so on have a considerably stricter refund policy than grocery stores or the big bad anti-consumer Amazon and Walmart. The only justification is in how the refund/transaction system of Steam works. There are fees for that stuff, so they understandably want to reduce the amount of fees they have to pay out. It's kind of like filing a charge-back to the publishers/devs as well. It can be a headache, so Steam holds onto the money for two weeks (or TWO HOURS, not a great amount of time since even EA, again an anti-consumer bad guy vs good guy Steam, gives you 24 hours since launch, and many games take about 3-4 hours to get going with all the cutscenes and tutorials and crap). At that rate, though, I wish Steam gave us the option of partial refunds depending on the circumstances. Even a 50% refund would be better than absolutely NOTHING, especially if it was just the two-week mark instead of the two-hour mark.
Moreover, I stand by the refund policy being a bit tl;dr and sloppy. To propose how it could be improved, I'll give constructive criticism.
"Refunds on Titles Purchased Prior to Release Date
When you purchase a title on Steam prior to the release date, the two-hour playtime limit for refunds will apply (except for beta testing), but the 14-day period for refunds will not start until the release date. For example, if you purchase a game that is in Early Access or Advanced Access, any playtime will count against the two-hour refund limit. If you pre-purchase a title which is not playable prior to the release date, you can request a refund at any time prior to release of that title, and the standard 14-day/two-hour refund period will apply starting on the game’s release date."
It doesn't specify whether the RELEASE DATE means FULL RELEASE or PLAYABLE RELEASE. It also doesn't specify that EARLY ACCESS means RELEASE and is therefore subject to the two week limit. I don't see how people say this is good wording. It vaguely implies that you can (only) request a refund two weeks after the game releases (in early access or full release). The wording is bad in this paragraph at the very least.
Admittedly, the rest of the policy is fine, but this specific paragraph is convoluted.
Well here's the thing. It IS a normal thing.
Let me give you a story as to how this happened.
Back in the 2000s-2010s Valve had no refund policy like many other places. But here in Europe, as I worked in law, I was often talking about a forthcoming change in EU law on here. This was to bring digital goods in line with physical goods to have similar rights of refund and recompense regarding faults and the like.
The EU Consumer Rights thing went through and finally here in Britain we got it acted upon in 2015. And by this time my suspicion was correct - Valve decided to go in line with it, because obviously Steam being international you can imagine how pissed off American users would be to have no refunds and us to have two weeks and 14 days.
So they blanket allowed it.
And that's why. It wasn't pulled out of nowhere. This was the reasonable time period consulted and decided upon based on existing law across Europe and other countries (like Australia) and brought it in line with this.
It's good to know the history. It's two weekends to reflect, so it's not the worst thing ever. For hardware, a month or longer is definitely necessary, as there can be defects. But two weeks is enough time to figure out if a game works reasonably well and you don't feel buyer's remorse. I'd argue two hours versus three is a crappy standard still, but it at least weeds out the absolute worst games. I wish the refund policy was dynamic depending on the community's consensus for how long it takes the average person to beat the game. Maybe ~15% of the game's estimated time, like for GTA San Andreas, you could get ~6 hours for the refund window, and for whatever that short Resident Evil game was, you could get the 2 hours again. But 2 hours is enough to beat some games on here and not enough to make considerable progress in most AAA games with unskippable cutscenes (like Far Cry 4). As for pay-to-play online games (like CSGO), 2 hours and 30 minutes would work to get a basic feel for it.
Actually no, there's a bit more to it than that regarding hardware.
The thing you need to remember is this - it's in the details.
This law was to bring largely two aspects in line with physical goods - the rights regarding faults, and the rights regarding distance selling (ie, sales at home or online).
The distance selling thing should be obvious - as you rightly pointed out 14 days is enough for you to mull over and decide if you've changed your mind. That's a major part that I referred by being enshrined in law for many years. It's been tested through courts as reasonable.
But the other part is the faults thing. 14 days doesn't really apply to the faults part. That depends on the product - as it's between 1 and 2 years mostly.
The reason the 14 days is a thing is because that's just to cover the "I don't want it anymore" cooling off thing, if you just don't like it anymore.
So as far as Valve goes, they decided to draw a line there and just have it as 14 days no questions asked as it's the most simple thing to still comply with the law.
If however a game is TRULY faulty and you find out afterwards, which is unlikely in game terms, you can always go back to this law too.
The point here is that 14 days is for "no questions asked".
By creating an account on steam you had to check a [_] box saying you read all of Steam's terms and conditions before you created your steam account. Which mean you were supposed to READ everything posted about Steam, it's rules, the conditions of those rules (including the return policy) BEFORE you created your Steam account.
You may as well just admit it: You screwed up, you're mad that you screwed up and you thought complaining in the steam forums or opening a support ticket would some how change things for you (surprise: that's not how the world worlds).
If you don't agree to the terms of the return policy then you shouldn't of created an account on Steam and you shouldn't of bought a game here.
No they haven't. Or at least not in the context we're talking about.
Before 2015 they had no actual refund policy. If you had a game that you didn't like you could ask them for a refund and they'd either tell you no, or make a one-off decision. But as far as polciy goes it was clear they had ABSOLUTELY NO right to refund anything at all.
You are demonstrably wrong.
Again I've been on here about 14 years. I used to regularly give legal advice to various people from time to time as that was what I did in the real world at the time.
When the EU directive was going through as I said, I posted quite a lot about "I wonder what Valve will do about this?"
There also used to be this big old myth on here which spread like wildfire - that every user got ONE refund per their account. This was most likely people getting basic contract conditions round their necks. Because as I pointed out already, there was sometimes a "one off goodwill gesture" which they likely misconstrued as one per account. What it really meant was that it was non binding - on other words just because they decided to give a refund, that doesn't mean they'll do the same again in a similar situation.
I did manage to get a refund back then, because I pointed out that the game I bought didn't work on 64 bit OSes and I pointed to the then Sale of Goods Act in Britain and they gave me the "good will" gesture too.
So by all means prove to me where this refund policy was before 2015.