AI anti-cheat

[Quadsword]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LkmIItTrQP4&t=198s
What do you guys think? Personally, it sounds like a lot of hype. I can't tell you how many times I've seen developers hype up this idea of an anti-cheat system that will finally stop cheaters for good, only for their game to still be full of cheaters. I predict that, at best, this might stop cheating for a month or two until cheat makers find all the ♥♥♥♥♥♥ in the armor.

I'd love to be able to enjoy PvP multiplayer games again without having the experience ruined by cheaters, but I'll believe it when I see it. Plus, let's be frank here - how motivated are most developers to actually stop cheaters? Thousands of people still play Tarkov, CS:GO, COD, etc. in spite of all the complaints about rampant cheating.

[potato]

i think "false positives"

[Liquid Inc]

a month? far more optimistic than me...

Try 3 hours?, like Rockstar & GTA Online. The system they said would stop cheaters, made it hell for the rule abiding player due to the lag it introduced, and the cheaters were through it in mere hours and went right back to cheating, and to top it off didn't suffer the lag as they broke the anti cheat...

Online games are pretty much dead for those of us who don't want to suffer playing with cheaters.
Those who are cheating, aren't usually the people making the cheats though. Sometimes those making the cheats, don't even play the game they're making cheats for.... I guess the appeal of breaking things is why they do it?

Ehh, do what i do and stick to single player games. Or if you really need to play online games, stick to server side ones where everything is calculated by the game's servers.
Stay away from peer to peer games like Cod/GTA Online etc.. are. They aren't worth the time of day.

[Realigo Actual]

There is no hype when it comes to AI. It will continue to shatter all predictions. Cheat vendors will never be able to outrace or fool the AI once it has been trained enough.

Cheats will function for a handful of games at most and if it's Microsoft's AI, with close ties to the OS, maybe not even a single game.

[Liquid Inc]

if microsoft can code it, someone can break it...

BIG money in cheats after all, people will throw money at anything to get a one up over others, even if it's just stats in a video game....

[Quadsword]

Originally posted by Actual Sprinkle Taters:

There is no hype when it comes to AI. It will continue to shatter all predictions. Cheat vendors will never be able to outrace or fool the AI once it has been trained enough.

Cheats will function for a handful of games at most and if it's Microsoft's AI, with close ties to the OS, maybe not even a single game.

Quite the optimistic prediction, especially when I've already seen well known cheat makers laugh at the idea that this will hurt them or slow them down in any way (imagine earning your living by selling software designed to do nothing except ruin other people's fun).

[cSg|mc-Hotsauce]

Haven't heard of VACnet, huh?

[❤ Sly Succubus ❤]

Originally posted by Quadsword:

Originally posted by Actual Sprinkle Taters:

There is no hype when it comes to AI. It will continue to shatter all predictions. Cheat vendors will never be able to outrace or fool the AI once it has been trained enough.

Cheats will function for a handful of games at most and if it's Microsoft's AI, with close ties to the OS, maybe not even a single game.

Quite the optimistic prediction, especially when I've already seen well known cheat makers laugh at the idea that this will hurt them or slow them down in any way (imagine earning your living by selling software designed to do nothing except ruin other people's fun).

Virus makers literally do this and make hundreds a day, idk what your talking about mate, hell one could make much more with the act of black-hat programming and thats just a fact.

AI won't help valve, if anything TF2's community will sooner knee you out of the game then even humor the idea of a "good bot" or "good AI"

[Realigo Actual]

Originally posted by Quadsword:

Originally posted by Actual Sprinkle Taters:

There is no hype when it comes to AI. It will continue to shatter all predictions. Cheat vendors will never be able to outrace or fool the AI once it has been trained enough.

Cheats will function for a handful of games at most and if it's Microsoft's AI, with close ties to the OS, maybe not even a single game.

Quite the optimistic prediction, especially when I've already seen well known cheat makers laugh at the idea that this will hurt them or slow them down in any way (imagine earning your living by selling software designed to do nothing except ruin other people's fun).

I would say the same of their appraisal. The idea is I guess "I good at breaking stuff, I'll break this too." The problem is while they're figuring out how to break it spending days on the problem, the AI has spent millennia on the problem.

Elon Musk has some things wrong about AI imo, especially where he considers it end-of-the world dangerous. I think AI is fundamentally quite safe with hyper-dangerous possible branches. But I think he's very right about one thing, the exponential improvement curve. His metaphor of being a bootloader for AI is completely appropriate.

[Lystent]

Originally posted by potato:

i think "false positives"

That was my first thought, more specifically I'd suspect the anticheat works as calibrated at first (however well that would be), then it behaves otherwise.

Originally posted by Liquid Inc:

... made it hell for the rule abiding player due to the lag it introduced,...

Reminds me of Denuvo's initial implantation into a game I played. Client side and tuned to high sensitivity. They did it because they dumped a whole DLC into the main download, whether you have the key or not, but significantly increased the CPU requirements in the process.

Speaking of cheap shortcuts, rockstar sure did love carpet bombing their play base with punishments for one player's cheats. A fine reason to not trust a game with such loose microtransactions. If they are gonna monetize the smallest things, ofcourse they will want to enforce it, even if the means are half-baked, which brings me back to the calibration process of an 'AI anticheat'. Potentially would require more calibration than a game developing studio would be willing and/or able to do.

[Muppet among Puppets]

Originally posted by potato:

i think "false positives"

99% accuracy.
Even if it gets to 99%, it is still bad.

This video only made me think, if anything goes wrong, you are up against people who think their system is supergood.
Or their fingerprint thing, as if there are billions of distinguishable ways to play a game. That is nonsense.

[Callahan420]

So basically they are not proving someone is using a cheat but they will ban players the AI thinks is using a cheat. Sounds bad.

Also not buying the fingerprint thing.

[Quadsword]

Originally posted by Shizune:

Originally posted by Quadsword:

Quite the optimistic prediction, especially when I've already seen well known cheat makers laugh at the idea that this will hurt them or slow them down in any way (imagine earning your living by selling software designed to do nothing except ruin other people's fun).

Virus makers literally do this and make hundreds a day, idk what your talking about mate, hell one could make much more with the act of black-hat programming and thats just a fact.

I know. I still find it absolutely pathetic.

[RiO]

Originally posted by Muppet among Puppets:

Originally posted by potato:

i think "false positives"

99% accuracy.
Even if it gets to 99%, it is still bad.

This video only made me think, if anything goes wrong, you are up against people who think their system is supergood.
Or their fingerprint thing, as if there are billions of distinguishable ways to play a game. That is nonsense.

This is one part where I'm happy I'm in the EU.

The Digital Services Act will fully enter into force come 2024 and requires that service providers for online platforms give you proper substantiated reason for any suspension or termination of service. And they are expressly not allowed to fully automate those decisions; or base them in whole on automated evaluation (i.e. 'computer says no')
They're also required to have a functioning appeals procedure in place that must result in promptly restoring service if they cannot provide hard proof that would waylay a consumer's counter-claim. And they're required to keep statistics on number of interventions; number of appeals; and number of successful appeals, which have to be reported to authorities periodically as part of a transparency initiative.

So all in all, the situation with false positives in the EU wouldn't / shouldn't be that big of a deal.
Elsewhere though...

[Chika Ogiue]

Originally posted by Actual Sprinkle Taters:

There is no hype when it comes to AI. It will continue to shatter all predictions. Cheat vendors will never be able to outrace or fool the AI once it has been trained enough.

Cheats will function for a handful of games at most and if it's Microsoft's AI, with close ties to the OS, maybe not even a single game.

And what makes you think the creators of cheats for multiplayer games won't be leveraging available AI solutions to outwit this AI? You're right when you say there's no hype for AI though. They've all been terrible in their own ways.

[J4MESOX4D]

Originally posted by Quadsword:

What do you guys think? Personally, it sounds like a lot of hype

Nothing new. We've already had VACNET for years and whilst the prospect of having a more revolutionary AI framework to detect cheating behaviours, I don't really hold out much hope seeing that it's taken over a decade for anti-cheat systems to finally work at detecting Cronus users. Cheat developers with considerable experience working with off-the-shelf engines will probably be streets ahead of any AI groundwork and then as per the concept already, they will forever remain behind.