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Revanox 2020 年 6 月 29 日 下午 2:17
Steam needs to Adapt
Hello readers!
I will post here the same thing I have posted on my refund request for MHW: Iceborne, just a tough for people to think about and respond to If they would like.
I have my own reason for disliking this game which I have stated on the refund, but shall not post it here, to avoid discussions about why or not should one like a game and focus on the issue which Is Steam and Its greedy nature, that needs to change. So here it goes:
Yes I have played four hours instead of two, two hours is very little time in some games for you to realize that you actually don't like it. In the case of MHW: Iceborne It Is not even close to completion since It adds 45 to 50 hours. So I find this reason to refuse a refund unfair. I believe steam should be more aware of the situation In the market at the moment. Wile I am being refused a refund of 60 R$ which would be 11 U$D, there is a platform, like Epic Games that is giving good games for free. Also steam taxes 20% revenue from game creators wile epic games is currently taxing them 5% which is making some companies not want to work with steam anymore. Games like Assassins Creed Valhalla wont be available In steam just like other possible future games. The price of games here Is the same price as In other platforms like GOG Galaxy or Epic Games and they give better support for the companies that are making the games. Just for that It Is a very good reason to migrate to another platform.
Not refunding me this Is a bonus reason to loose a customer. Refunding me on the other hand would make me want to stick around and spend money here still, just because of the money Ill still have on the wallet. Its even a better strategy, there Is after all games here that will keep me around buying dlcs, games which I have all the dlcs and don't regret the purchase at all. BUT I don't believe I will be here or would purchase anything else, unless its steam exclusive, which I truly doubt any company would be that sadistic.
Is It worth loosing a customer of years that has purchased several games over 11 U$D? Steam needs to adapt or It will start loosing customers. No mater the rules treating customers with flexibility and evaluating each situation Individually, Instead of tossing everything on the same pot, helps keep loyalty and make customers reconsider. Anyways thank you for whoever read this I hope It helps for people to think on it, be it gamers or who knows, dreaming here, but maybe make steam rethink its approach to customer requests.
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正在显示第 16 - 30 条,共 35 条留言
Revanox 2020 年 6 月 29 日 下午 3:14 
引用自 rawWwRrr
引用自 rgfasa
you will just try to desiccate what I'm saying to turn into utter ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥
desiccate? like those little packets you get when you buy something to help reduce moisture in the packaging?

As I have said, pointing out the bad instead of trying to extract the good.

I meant as In Dissection. English Is not my first language. Thank you for pointing it out tho. I will google how to write it properly.
Muppet among Puppets 2020 年 6 月 29 日 下午 3:16 
If you have a strong reason for refund, choose the purchase in the list, help tab, support purchases. Have a problem.
Explain it and ask manually for refund for that reason.
Tell when you bought the dlc and how long you played after that.

In my eyes you get a faster reply than from epic or ubosoft. Maybe you are lucky.

On a side note, 11 $ is cheap for that item (not sure about your country). Others have to pay several times more than that, on sale.
Tito Shivan 2020 年 6 月 29 日 下午 3:17 
引用自 rgfasa
Well, guess you guys just answered it. That's why steam shall never change. People that just accepts and agrees without a second thought. I won't even try to point out that this isn't about the refund but about customer care and companies like steam having to change their ways. Because It seems there Is a lot of people set In their ways even tho It doesn't favor you, the customer or the companies from games you love. This Is sad and disappointing but now i understand...there Is too many people who would march blindly into the fire without a second thought.
So, how much should Steam stretch the refund limits in your opinion? Your 4 hours?

Now take that time and check how many games could be played head-to-toe in that time frame, and then refunded.

The refunds limits are a balance between allowing breathing room for users to have second thoughts and restricting the ability to abuse the system to play through games for free.

In fact digital refunds are more lenient than retail ones nowadays. You've been unable to refund an opened game, software or media disc for the longest part of the last three decades and many online stores now offer some sort of refund channel.
Revanox 2020 年 6 月 29 日 下午 3:20 
引用自 Tito Shivan
引用自 rgfasa
Well, guess you guys just answered it. That's why steam shall never change. People that just accepts and agrees without a second thought. I won't even try to point out that this isn't about the refund but about customer care and companies like steam having to change their ways. Because It seems there Is a lot of people set In their ways even tho It doesn't favor you, the customer or the companies from games you love. This Is sad and disappointing but now i understand...there Is too many people who would march blindly into the fire without a second thought.
So, how much should Steam stretch the refund limits in your opinion? Your 4 hours?

Now take that time and check how many games could be played head-to-toe in that time frame, and then refunded.

The refunds limits are a balance between allowing breathing room for users to have second thoughts and restricting the ability to abuse the system to play through games for free.

In fact digital refunds are more lenient than retail ones nowadays. You've been unable to refund an opened game, software or media disc for the longest part of the last three decades and many online stores now offer some sort of refund channel.

Sir as I have stated this post Is not supposed to be a complain about an individual request. But a reflection about customer care and the greedy policies on taxing companies. But obviously If I am having to explain this means It was poorly written.

What you say Is very agreeable. This is why I believe more attention should be paid individually to each case.
Muppet among Puppets 2020 年 6 月 29 日 下午 3:21 
引用自 rgfasa
引用自 Tito Shivan
So, how much should Steam stretch the refund limits in your opinion? Your 4 hours?

Now take that time and check how many games could be played head-to-toe in that time frame, and then refunded.

The refunds limits are a balance between allowing breathing room for users to have second thoughts and restricting the ability to abuse the system to play through games for free.

In fact digital refunds are more lenient than retail ones nowadays. You've been unable to refund an opened game, software or media disc for the longest part of the last three decades and many online stores now offer some sort of refund channel.

Sir as I have stated this post Is not supposed to be a complain about an individual request. But a reflection about customer care and the greedy policies on taxing companies. But obviously If I am having to explain this means It was poorly written.

What you say Is very agreeable. This is why I believe more attention should be paid individually to each case.
Dont worry about the companies. They make millions.
nullable 2020 年 6 月 29 日 下午 3:22 
引用自 rgfasa
Is It worth loosing a customer of years that has purchased several games over 11 U$D?

It's not worth them changing their whole business model to keep you, no. You know they're hugely successful multi-billion dollar juggernaut business model that has seen the Steam userbase continue to grow since the Epic Game Store launched...

Some customers aren't worth keeping. Not every customer demanding a self-serving change to Steam has a leg to stand on or needs to be entertained. Imagining Steam is or is about to start hemorrhaging customers isn't a serious argument. The the refund policies at EGS and GoG aren't better. Publishers give free games away on Steam all the time, it's just not a front page section like EGS.

At the moment there's not a real reason Steam needs to do everything exactly the way Epic is doing it. I feel like when people really start demanding this sort of thing it just means they believe they can use Epic's strategies as leverage to get what they want. And yet they don't seem all that interested in actually jumping ship.
最后由 nullable 编辑于; 2020 年 6 月 29 日 下午 3:24
crunchyfrog 2020 年 6 月 29 日 下午 3:24 
And just how is MHW: Iceborne anything to do with Valve and the sale thereof something about greedy business practices?

The refund policy is already MORE than the law and most other vendors, if not all. SO I have no idea why this equates to such a thing. Or even anything to do with them.
Muppet among Puppets 2020 年 6 月 29 日 下午 3:26 
I recommend get busy doing the manual request i described above.
Dont waste your time here.

Just one more note: Every company that sells on any digital storefront gets more than in the past. They sell something that is unlimited and already available. No transport, no shop fee, no shelf time.

Dont worry about the companies. Care for yourself. Watch videos and reviews. And if you still buy, set a timer. Refund if needed.
最后由 Muppet among Puppets 编辑于; 2020 年 6 月 29 日 下午 3:27
Revanox 2020 年 6 月 29 日 下午 3:29 
If you have a strong reason for refund, choose the purchase in the list, help tab, support purchases. Have a problem.
Explain it and ask manually for refund for that reason.
Tell when you bought the dlc and how long you played after that.

In my eyes you get a faster reply than from epic or ubosoft. Maybe you are lucky.

On a side note, 11 $ is cheap for that item (not sure about your country). Others have to pay several times more than that, on sale.

I bought it on the 27th installed it yesterday and played for 4 hours (Was finishing some old game content to get reacquainted with the game before jumping into the dlc. I know It was dumb of me, lesson learned) Thank you for your nice reply and the tips sir, I might try that.

In my country it means about 6 times the price, which is about 3 or 6 meals depending on the quality of the meal. But of course If I payed Is because I have that to spare. If I cant get a refund It's ok, maybe my nephews can enjoy it one day, like other games I have purchased and ended up not liking it but do not believe it Is fair to ask for a refund.
nullable 2020 年 6 月 29 日 下午 3:31 
引用自 rgfasa

How about the % they ask from game developers Is that right too? Epic games giving games for free Is not just a hand out but also a great way to attract and get customer fidelity, Is that also wrong of them?

No, because that's not a moral issue. It's a business issue.

The Epic Game Store launched 18 months ago. It's a grand experiment. And what it's doing isn't a secret so one must ask the question why hasn't every developer jumped ship to Epic? If Steam's percentage is so wrong, and such a burden...

I mean every developer has that option right? If they choose to stay on Steam, what's the issue with Steam's percentage? The reality is Epic charging less doesn't mean everyone is obligated to to match them.

And if I start a game platform and charge developers 9%, is Epic now the greedy monsters until they reduce their percentage to match mine?
最后由 nullable 编辑于; 2020 年 6 月 29 日 下午 3:32
Muppet among Puppets 2020 年 6 月 29 日 下午 3:35 
引用自 rgfasa
If you have a strong reason for refund, choose the purchase in the list, help tab, support purchases. Have a problem.
Explain it and ask manually for refund for that reason.
Tell when you bought the dlc and how long you played after that.

In my eyes you get a faster reply than from epic or ubosoft. Maybe you are lucky.

On a side note, 11 $ is cheap for that item (not sure about your country). Others have to pay several times more than that, on sale.

I bought it on the 27th installed it yesterday and played for 4 hours (Was finishing some old game content to get reacquainted with the game before jumping into the dlc.
I meant, tell them that way. Make your case and reason clear.
Revanox 2020 年 6 月 29 日 下午 3:36 
引用自 Brockenstein
引用自 rgfasa

How about the % they ask from game developers Is that right too? Epic games giving games for free Is not just a hand out but also a great way to attract and get customer fidelity, Is that also wrong of them?

No, because that's not a moral issue. It's a business issue.

The Epic Game Store launched 18 months ago. It's a grand experiment. And what it's doing isn't a secret so one must ask the question why hasn't every developer jumped ship to Epic? If Steam's percentage is so wrong, and such a burden...

I mean every developer has that option right? If they choose to stay on Steam, what's the issue with Steam's percentage? The reality is Epic charging less doesn't mean everyone is obligated to to match them.

And if I start a game platform and charge 9%, is Epic now the greedy monsters until they reduce their percentage?

Sir as I have stated this post Is not supposed to be a complain about an individual request. But a reflection about customer care and the greedy policies on taxing companies. But obviously If I am having to explain this means It was poorly written.

I used my situation only as an example, I believe yes there should be flexibility In certain cases, having played 4 instead of 2 hours in a game that is 45 to 50 hours long Is a case where I believe that.

About steam It Is starting to feel the pressure. It had to drop from taxing companies 30% to 20% yet It Is still a lot higher than Epic Games 5%. Credit card companies themselves tax about 3%.

I truly don't understand all the rampage since what I am saying Is supposed to be good for you guys too.

The only reason I can find Is that my post must have been poorly written.
crunchyfrog 2020 年 6 月 29 日 下午 3:39 
引用自 rgfasa
引用自 Brockenstein

No, because that's not a moral issue. It's a business issue.

The Epic Game Store launched 18 months ago. It's a grand experiment. And what it's doing isn't a secret so one must ask the question why hasn't every developer jumped ship to Epic? If Steam's percentage is so wrong, and such a burden...

I mean every developer has that option right? If they choose to stay on Steam, what's the issue with Steam's percentage? The reality is Epic charging less doesn't mean everyone is obligated to to match them.

And if I start a game platform and charge 9%, is Epic now the greedy monsters until they reduce their percentage?

Sir as I have stated this post Is not supposed to be a complain about an individual request. But a reflection about customer care and the greedy policies on taxing companies. But obviously If I am having to explain this means It was poorly written.

I used my situation only as an example, I believe yes there should be flexibility In certain cases, having played 4 instead of 2 hours in a game that is 45 to 50 hours long Is a case where I believe that.

About steam It Is starting to feel the pressure. It had to drop from taxing companies 30% to 20% yet It Is still a lot higher than Epic Games 5%. Credit card companies themselves tax about 3%.

I truly don't understand all the rampage since what I am saying Is supposed to be good for you guys too.

The only reason I can find Is that my post must have been poorly written.

First off, it's not a rampage. We're just pointing out you're WRONG. It doesn't matter whether it makes things better for us or worse. Your assumptions were incorrect and we explained why.

That's all.

And they're not TAXING companies that amount (and you can't compare that with credit cards) - that's not how these things work.

Credit cards charge that interest on money loaned. Valve are charging their fee for hosting, promoting and so on - two TOTALLY different things. But neither are TAX. I think you are very confused about things.
Brian9824 2020 年 6 月 29 日 下午 3:40 
引用自 rgfasa
引用自 Tito Shivan
So, how much should Steam stretch the refund limits in your opinion? Your 4 hours?

Now take that time and check how many games could be played head-to-toe in that time frame, and then refunded.

The refunds limits are a balance between allowing breathing room for users to have second thoughts and restricting the ability to abuse the system to play through games for free.

In fact digital refunds are more lenient than retail ones nowadays. You've been unable to refund an opened game, software or media disc for the longest part of the last three decades and many online stores now offer some sort of refund channel.

Sir as I have stated this post Is not supposed to be a complain about an individual request. But a reflection about customer care and the greedy policies on taxing companies. But obviously If I am having to explain this means It was poorly written.

What you say Is very agreeable. This is why I believe more attention should be paid individually to each case.

Part of good customer care is CONSISTENT care, if you make exceptions and let some people refund at 4 hours and don't let everyone then you create far more issues then holding everyone to the same standard.

Also FYI Epic store is not doing very well, they've admitted they are running at a loss and if it wasn't for the money they get from Fortnite they would already be out of business.

They have to BRIBE people with free games just to get people to use their platform,and they don't provide basic functions that steam has nor do they have anywhere near the playerbase steam has.

Those are some of the reasons why steam charges a higher fee. It's like if your a store you can pay 5% to get exposed to your customers or you can pay 20% to get exposed to 10 times more customers.

Plus hate to break it to you but before Steam you would have had NO REFUNDS. If you had bought physical titles you'd have no refund at all. So trying to claim that steam needs to adapt is kinda funny, as they were one of the first ones to even OFFER a refund and most sites do an identical refund policy to them
nullable 2020 年 6 月 29 日 下午 3:49 
引用自 rgfasa
引用自 Brockenstein

No, because that's not a moral issue. It's a business issue.

The Epic Game Store launched 18 months ago. It's a grand experiment. And what it's doing isn't a secret so one must ask the question why hasn't every developer jumped ship to Epic? If Steam's percentage is so wrong, and such a burden...

I mean every developer has that option right? If they choose to stay on Steam, what's the issue with Steam's percentage? The reality is Epic charging less doesn't mean everyone is obligated to to match them.

And if I start a game platform and charge 9%, is Epic now the greedy monsters until they reduce their percentage?

Sir as I have stated this post Is not supposed to be a complain about an individual request. But a reflection about customer care and the greedy policies on taxing companies. But obviously If I am having to explain this means It was poorly written.

Well I didn't respond like it was... so thanks for your worthless copypasta that really adds to the quality of your post.

引用自 rgfasa
I used my situation only as an example, I believe yes there should be flexibility In certain cases, having played 4 instead of 2 hours in a game that is 45 to 50 hours long Is a case where I believe that.

Someday you're going to realize the Universe doesn't care much about your beliefs.

引用自 rgfasa
About steam It Is starting to feel the pressure. It had to drop from taxing companies 30% to 20% yet It Is still a lot higher than Epic Games 5%. Credit card companies themselves tax about 3%.

Again, not sure where you're getting those numbers.

https://www.epicgames.com/store/en-US/about

引用自 rgfasa
I truly don't understand all the rampage since what I am saying Is supposed to be good for you guys too.

The current system is fine for most of us already. I mean it would be better for us if all games cost a penny, and there were no limitations on refunds. That doesn't make it a good idea or even an informed one.

引用自 rgfasa
The only reason I can find Is that my post must have been poorly written.

No, it's not poorly written. Your expectation that being the 1 millionth person to argue Steam needs to change all sorts of things purely for your benefit was going to make everyone agree with you is probably naive though.
最后由 nullable 编辑于; 2020 年 6 月 29 日 下午 3:50
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发帖日期: 2020 年 6 月 29 日 下午 2:17
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