PSA: Devcommands are not intended for normal gameplay

[Nascarman]

Feel like this needs to be said for everyone. Too many times I see devcommands being thrown around as a solution to all the worlds problems.

If a new player wants help, don’t recommend devcommands unless either:
1. The player asks for a mod/cheat explicitly or what they want to do requires one
2. The player experienced a game breaking bug that prevents them from continuing on with the game

If they want help killing a boss, don’t tell them to go god mode. If they want tips on how to recover their body, don’t tell them to fly/teleport there and godmode the enemies in the area. Devcommands are a slippery slope and most players will be unable to use self control and end up abusing them which ruins the intended experience.

If a player says “I hate corpse running” don’t immediately recommend they remove the mechanic entirely unless they ask for mods/cheats outright. If a player asks “is there a mod/way to keep items on death” then yeah, you can tell them what mods/cheats do that for them. Many times people are looking for tips and tricks on how to do things and instead people are telling them how to ignore the problem altogether, which just isn’t a very helpful solution.

Nobody cares if you use cheats in your singleplayer world, that’s a decision you made, but don’t pretend to others that cheating with devcommands is an intended mechanic. It’s not, and acting like using them isn’t ruining the intended experience is robbing someone else of it too.

Just feel like devcommands (or what they used to be/still should be called “imacheater mode”) are being tossed around too lightly as if using them is a normal part of gameplay. Unfortunately I believe the devs bought into this nonsense by changing the command to access them but that’s just my personal opinion.

Tldr: Don’t encourage players to cheat with devcommands unless they ask for them.

[Gregomoto]

lol

[Faustus]

This sounds rather self-righteous; play the game however you want and leave others to do the same.

It sounds quite petty to want a label to reference cheaters to suit an individuals world view of how games should/shouldn't be played.

It certainly isn’t “cheating” beyond perhaps an individual cheating themselves out of some of the fun of a game. I think of it more along the lines of the quote (whose originator I don’t remember) that given the chance some players will optimise the fun out of their games if given the chance.

[Nascarman]

Originally posted by Faustus:

This sounds rather self-righteous; play the game however you want and leave others to do the same.

It certainly isn’t “cheating” beyond perhaps an individual cheating themselves out of some of the fun of a game. I think of it more along the lines as the quote (whose originatior I don’t remember) that given the chance some players will optimise the fun out of their games if given the chance.

Did you read the thread, even the tldr? I don’t care how you play the game, but don’t suggests others cheat themselves out of the experience as well.

Devcommands are clearly cheating just like cheat codes in other singleplayer games are cheating, but just like you wouldn’t suggest someone use the invincibility cheat in a different game to beat a level, you shouldn’t suggest others do that here.

[Subsonic]

Yeah, a PSA to tell people how to play their game and how others should tell people to play the game...no thanks. Individuals can make their own decisions, for offering advice or acting on it, don't need player police to dictate the action. Sorry, I disagree with this whole premise.

For the record, I don't use devcommands or mods, I just play vanilla survival Valheim--but I don't expect others to play the same. Everyone plays how they want to play, this isn't a big MMO or public game (for the most part). So, awareness is important and maybe players aren't aware of devcommands/mods. Not that they want to use them (as I don't) but knowing about them isn't harmful. In fact, I'd argue it's better to know your options--all of them--then make the choice that's good for your own enjoyment.

[Nascarman]

Originally posted by ChinoValley:

Yeah, a PSA to tell people how to play their game and how others should tell people to play the game...no thanks. Individuals can make their own decisions, for offering advice or acting on it, don't need player police to dictate the action. Sorry, I disagree with this whole premise.

Not sure who you disagree with here, since I never told anyone how to play the game (actually I specifically detailed that I’m indifferent to your decisions about your own experience). It’s not so much a specific player but a forum wide issue, and I think it’s really ruining the integrity of the game when every suggestion is to just ignore the problem entirely by cheating past it.

[Subsonic]

Originally posted by Danson:

Originally posted by Faustus:

This sounds rather self-righteous; play the game however you want and leave others to do the same.

It certainly isn’t “cheating” beyond perhaps an individual cheating themselves out of some of the fun of a game. I think of it more along the lines of the quote (whose originatior I don’t remember) that given the chance some players will optimise the fun out of their games if given the chance.

If given the chance being the important part. Dunno how you missed the fact that it's not about using the cheats, I really don't care how people play. I do care about how people give advice to new players experiencing everything for the first time. If someone asks how to find swamp crypts, the advice given shouldn't be "just look it up". If someone is stuck at sea and doesn't know what to do, the advice given shouldn't be "just enable cheats and fly back". That's giving some players the chance to optimize the fun out of their game, isn't it?

If players come into the forums asking for help I think it's reasonable to suggest they look around first before posting the Xth post and issue Y when it's been answered scores of times previously. And yes, suggesting in-game options to resolve a situation is beneficial but it doesn't hurt to know about devcommands/mods either. Take the player police hat off and let the individuals decide how they want to play their game--give them the info, all of it, so they know their options, then let it go at that point. PSA to monitor the forum advice given by players is presumptive.

[Subsonic]

Originally posted by Nascarman:

Originally posted by ChinoValley:

Yeah, a PSA to tell people how to play their game and how others should tell people to play the game...no thanks. Individuals can make their own decisions, for offering advice or acting on it, don't need player police to dictate the action. Sorry, I disagree with this whole premise.

Not sure who you disagree with here, since I never told anyone how to play the game (actually I specifically detailed that I’m indifferent to your decisions about your own experience). It’s not so much a specific player but a forum wide issue, and I think it’s really ruining the integrity of the game when every suggestion is to just ignore the problem entirely by cheating past it.

It's not ruining the integrity of anything, that's again a self-righteous statement, as another poster suggested. I disagree with YOU and your PSA. The forum has moderators to police things, it doesn't need a PSA to tell people how to respond to others. You don't have to read it, or you can counter by adding a response in the fashion you feel advice should be given, but when you start suggesting that others should modify their responses to satisfy your perceived issue--yeah, slippery slope right there. No thank you. The players that bother to come to the forum asking for help (and that's a very small percentage of the overall player base) should get all the info, not just what you think should be parsed out to them. Let the individual decide what to use and not use, no need to censor or mask options to satisfy some need for game integrity. That's ludicrous, IMO.

[Nascarman]

Originally posted by ChinoValley:

Originally posted by Danson:

If given the chance being the important part. Dunno how you missed the fact that it's not about using the cheats, I really don't care how people play. I do care about how people give advice to new players experiencing everything for the first time. If someone asks how to find swamp crypts, the advice given shouldn't be "just look it up". If someone is stuck at sea and doesn't know what to do, the advice given shouldn't be "just enable cheats and fly back". That's giving some players the chance to optimize the fun out of their game, isn't it?

If players come into the forums asking for help I think it's reasonable to suggest they look around first before posting the Xth post and issue Y when it's been answered scores of times previously. And yes, suggesting in-game options to resolve a situation is beneficial but it doesn't hurt to know about devcommands/mods either. Take the player police hat off and let the individuals decide how they want to play their game--give them the info, all of it, so they know their options, then let it go at that point. PSA to monitor the forum advice given by players is presumptive.

If a player wants to cheat/mod, they’ll make it pretty clear. If all anybody does anytime a player asks for help is tell them to cheat, well that’s what they’re gonna do, which is a bad thing. You aren’t allowing players to decide if they want to cheat or not by making the only/best solution appear to be cheating when it’s not required. If a player asks for cheats, you can provide them, but it’s bad to imply cheating is the best option for every scenario when it’s not.

[M.Red]

its easy - DONT USE THEM if one feels they are gamebreaking because they are.
possible solutions are:

using one game for creative (cheats)

have one normal survival game

atm its about having the will to play the game as intended
not a big deal imho

prevent cheats and world hopping and there you go

[MDMchan]

I'll say this - I've done 4 playthroughs through Yagluth and I'm working on another playthrough now. My first character went through hell, had ruined skills, etc. and I stopped using him a little after Moder was defeated. I learned a lot the hard way. Then I created a second character and started playing with a friend. He got thrown around like I did at first and I recommended that he look into the devcommand thing I had heard about and he told me about all kinds of things for the next week or so. I was reluctant to use the commands but quickly realized how handy they could have been the first time. It ended up getting me way more interested in playing the game again. I also used the map location locator online for second map seed after sailing around everywhere to find the trader. I still have not found the trader on my first map seed that I played on (I did not even know there was a trader on that playthrough). Turns out the trader was really far away on my second map seed - for whatever reason. I still haven't found the trader on my current seed either, but I don't care, no biggie. I don't use the devcommands anymore, for about 5 months now. I only used them to fly several times to get my gear off the mountains and to visit the trader with my second character. I learned a lot and love the game without the devcommands. However, my friend used the devcommands very early on and lost interest in the game as well as one of my kids that did the same thing. So, lots of variables here but It kinda depends of the person playing the game. I'm old school - I played the Bard's Tale series on the Commodore 64 back in the day (late 80's, early 90's) and grinded those for years as well as the AD&D games that came out later (Pool of Radiance, etc.). I stick with games when they get hard, I figure them out and enjoy them... although, I did give up on the third Elder Scrolls (Morrowind) game come to think of it now. Anyways, I think it depends on the person really. Some people give up easily or just don't see the entertainment, others stick with it. I've got 1000hrs in Valheim so far, still loving it.

[Subsonic]

Originally posted by Danson:

Originally posted by ChinoValley:

It's not ruining the integrity of anything, that's again a self-righteous statement, as another poster suggested. I disagree with YOU and your PSA. The forum has moderators to police things, it doesn't need a PSA to tell people how to respond to others. You don't have to read it, or you can counter by adding a response in the fashion you feel advice should be given, but when you start suggesting that others should modify their responses to satisfy your perceived issue--yeah, slippery slope right there. No thank you. The players that bother to come to the forum asking for help (and that's a very small percentage of the overall player base) should get all the info, not just what you think should be parsed out to them. Let the individual decide what to use and not use, no need to censor or mask options to satisfy some need for game integrity. That's ludicrous, IMO.

You're being such a hypocrite it's laughable. If you're against telling people what to post then go ahead and show yourself out (and maybe stop doing it yourself). You've made your point.

You're being emo now, just stop it. Remove your emotions and arrogance from the conversation and maybe you'll get the point. Till then you're just being a nanny. Most players don't need a nanny, but if one is requested I'll point them in your direction.

[Asmosis]

If someone asks for options, i'll give them options.

It's up to them to decide if they want to use those options, not some self appointed soapbox hero.

PSA: people can make up their own minds.

[Subsonic]

Originally posted by Danson:

Originally posted by ChinoValley:

Don't police things, that's not your job.

Your lack of self awareness is truly something to behold. Again, hypocritical.

That's 3 times you insulted me instead of addressing the issue itself. When you start attacking the person instead of debating the issue, you've just turned this into nonsense. Stop already, you just look bad with your ad hominem attacks and straw man defense of a bogus PSA. You're being worse than regular forum trolls at this point because you're hiding behind some illusory shield of CORRECTNESS. I see enough of that with politicians, not interested in that in video games. So, you can just truck right off, buddy. You're way off base and attacking the individual now, you may need a time out.

[Faustus]

Originally posted by Danson:

Originally posted by ChinoValley:

You're being emo now, just stop it.

More policing! How charming. You sure like to try to lecture unwilling audiences, for someone who is against derailing other people's threads to push their own agenda. Done engaging with you, it's just going to get the thread locked. Move on and stop trying to control what others do, huh?

"stop trying to control what others do," ...you mean like people telling others what they can and cannot suggest in replies to form posts asking for assistance such as options on Mods or DevCommands?

[Nascarman]

Originally posted by ChinoValley:

Not hypocritical at all, you're being obtuse by saying that, and your conclusion is a typical knee-jerk response to being rebuffed. I didn't say go straight to cheat mode/mods to fix problems. I said give information and let the player decide how they want to play. Policing that information (which is what the OP and you are defending) is lame AF. So you can just shelve your BS please, you're the one defending a bad PSA and an untenable position. Don't police things, that's not your job. The integrity of the game is not affected by how individuals choose to play. If they want to mod it or use devcommands, that's their choice--if they even know about the options, which they never would if they only got answers from Danson and Nascarman. So yeah, let people give them all the info and let the player then decide how to proceed. Don't need to filter it, censor it, mask it, hide it--all that is garbage. Stop it.

I suggest you read this reply by a fellow commenter:

Originally posted by MDMchan:

I'll say this - I've done 4 playthroughs through Yagluth and I'm working on another playthrough now. My first character went through hell, had ruined skills, etc. and I stopped using him a little after Moder was defeated. I learned a lot the hard way. Then I created a second character and started playing with a friend. He got thrown around like I did at first and I recommended that he look into the devcommand thing I had heard about and he told me about all kinds of things for the next week or so. I was reluctant to use the commands but quickly realized how handy they could have been the first time. It ended up getting me way more interested in playing the game again. I also used the map location locator online for second map seed after sailing around everywhere to find the trader. I still have not found the trader on my first map seed that I played on (I did not even know there was a trader on that playthrough). Turns out the trader was really far away on my second map seed - for whatever reason. I still haven't found the trader on my current seed either, but I don't care, no biggie. I don't use the devcommands anymore, for about 5 months now. I only used them to fly several times to get my gear off the mountains and to visit the trader with my second character. I learned a lot and love the game without the devcommands. However, my friend used the devcommands very early on and lost interest in the game as well as one of my kids that did the same thing. So, lots of variables here but It kinda depends of the person playing the game. I'm old school - I played the Bard's Tale series on the Commodore 64 back in the day (late 80's, early 90's) and grinded those for years as well as the AD&D games that came out later (Pool of Radiance, etc.). I stick with games when they get hard, I figure them out and enjoy them... although, I did give up on the third Elder Scrolls (Morrowind) game come to think of it now. Anyways, I think it depends on the person really. Some people give up easily or just don't see the entertainment, others stick with it. I've got 1000hrs in Valheim so far, still loving it.

This is precisely my point. The player decides if they wanna cheat. If you start an echo chamber where cheats are seen as acceptable and if we just let everyone know how to skip all the hardships to playing the game, this is what happens. Some players have self control like this player and can use them sparingly because they had the experience of the full, uncheated game before. However, the new guys that never even finished the game yet get bored once they realize they can just hack their way to solve any problem they have, it removes the challenge and removes the core of the game itself. You wouldn't spoil a movie for a first time watcher if they asked what you thought of it beforehand, so why spoil the game for a player that isn't asking for them?