Trouble with mission four - Stoutheart campaign? Read this!

[Lavapotion]

We are currently re-balancing the difficulty curve of the Stoutheart campaign and will nerf the enemies slightly in mission four. We will also introduce a difficulty option for the campaigns in an upcoming patch (I can't guarantee when it will be out, but hopefully within a few weeks!).

If you want to beat the mission now, you probably can with the help of this strategy guide our Game Designer have created. We are sorry for the poor audio quality, but we wanted to get the video out sooner rather than re-record it!

https://youtu.be/K5yjeYbvlRw

I also want to provide some context: We have been in an Alpha testing phase for around a year. Over time the testers have gotten very good at the game! We've been told that we needed to increase the difficulty levels all around. So we did! This is not an excuse for the poor experience this has caused new players, but we are working hard to fix it!

[Przemysek]

Oki gona throw my thoughts on the matter aswell, manage to bit it yesterday and i have to thank ppl in this topic for all the usfull tips and advice. And for me the key to victory was just useing magic to buff my faye shooting troops and that one spell which works like chain lighning and other stuff bisicly magic is OP and no matter how good ur army is, for now magic will beat it not with some work but still offensive/buff magic > all the armys in the map.

[Rithrin]

Ursprünglich geschrieben von Przemysek:

Oki gona throw my thoughts on the matter aswell, manage to bit it yesterday and i have to thank ppl in this topic for all the usfull tips and advice. And for me the key to victory was just useing magic to buff my faye shooting troops and that one spell which works like chain lighning and other stuff bisicly magic is OP and no matter how good ur army is, for now magic will beat it not with some work but still offensive/buff magic > all the armys in the map.

I don't know if magic is OP overall (in multiplayers, skirmish, etc), but it does seem like the campaign was designed with magic as a focal point for difficulty. In every one of the challenging missions, they set you up in a hole strategically, but always give you a new Wielder with build in magic skills and either magic resist or damage boost.

For instance, Arleon Mission 4, they put you in a challenging deficit by forcing you through that intro area while the AI is getting a head start collecting resources, building up troops, and taking territory, but they give you Giana to ensure you have a magic Wielder if you didn't skill up Cecelia that way.

In Rana Mission 3, they also put you up against a challenging spellcaster, but surprise, they give you also a new caster Wielder with Magic Resist built in.

[Godforbid]

Ursprünglich geschrieben von Rithrin:

Ursprünglich geschrieben von Przemysek:

Oki gona throw my thoughts on the matter aswell, manage to bit it yesterday and i have to thank ppl in this topic for all the usfull tips and advice. And for me the key to victory was just useing magic to buff my faye shooting troops and that one spell which works like chain lighning and other stuff bisicly magic is OP and no matter how good ur army is, for now magic will beat it not with some work but still offensive/buff magic > all the armys in the map.

I don't know if magic is OP overall (in multiplayers, skirmish, etc), but it does seem like the campaign was designed with magic as a focal point for difficulty. In every one of the challenging missions, they set you up in a hole strategically, but always give you a new Wielder with build in magic skills and either magic resist or damage boost.

For instance, Arleon Mission 4, they put you in a challenging deficit by forcing you through that intro area while the AI is getting a head start collecting resources, building up troops, and taking territory, but they give you Giana to ensure you have a magic Wielder if you didn't skill up Cecelia that way.

In Rana Mission 3, they also put you up against a challenging spellcaster, but surprise, they give you also a new caster Wielder with Magic Resist built in.

I agree with you on this there is a huge diffrence between campain and skirmish
And i see quite a few people discussing this from those 2 sides magic in Campain is OP
But in Skirmish its not that OP as it takes a much longer time to develop properly

[arneverbeke79]

I won it on 2nd try when i focussed on having Stormspire and not Stoutheart as 'main' wielder. I also only build fairy troops and fully upgraded them with the armory, in the start combined with some cheap sappers if i had extra money. The ranged fairy queens i made after some time in the large settlement west of the map were crucial. Once Stormspire managed to win the first battles and looted on spell damage gear and i roasted anything combined with the fairy queens : chain lightning , extra attack on ranged and entangle roots on the dangerous melee stuff. Stoutheart was decent as secondary wielder.

[Akumaryu]

Difficulty is always a thing, but come on...Balancing is the alpha and omega. I really like the game so far, but there are definitely huge balancing problems in this one. Considering the price and the state of the game you don´t do yourself a favor by taking you time until you manage to balance the game out. Hope you are making progress, because this game is potentially a gem.

[EngineerKenny 123]

This is for the developers

I'll try and avoid all rants - just what I think you need to hear - I realize the game is in early access, but you, I fear, are on the verge of throwing away what could be THE next bombshell. You have made the campaign way too hard for the average gamer - your bread and butter. I know you read these forums, so hopefully you will act before you lose all of the enthusiasm that has been created over this title. You listened to beta testers - or whatever you call them - and they have talked you into making this game so hard that it is nothing but frustration for all but the experts. I have watched hours and hours of you tubes, read countless written advice in forums and other places, and still I have ended up throwing away hours and hours of game-play. I am referring to the 4th scenario of the 1st campaign. I am not whining, just concerned. We play these games for entertainment, relaxation, enjoyment and a release for our frustration. but this scenario - does just the opposite. Prospective buyers are reading day in and day out all the negativity created because of the unbelievable difficulty of this scenario. I know you're not blind or unaware - I'm not complaining - I can just move on to another game - but I want this game to be what it can be - should be, and not what it currently is. Are you willing to throw all of this away just to please some of your testers. I've read you are working on making things better- but the current negativity associated with how hard this game will stop people from buying it - I know you don't want that - But I think you are not aware of the urgency with which you need to fix it - before you lose your potential buyers. Fix it - and fix it now. Otherwise, there probably won't be a need to - you will have lost the fan base you had, and could have had. Yep, it's just one scenario of a campaign - but it leaves an feeling of un-accomplishment and emptiness. I'm not going into all the positives - and there are tons of them - but if your audience leaves you before they experience it - because of difficulty - it will all be for naught. Please consider what I said, and please expedite the fix - I want this game to be THE game people of this genre talk about positively and want to buy and play. One last thing - I notice - daily - how much less "hot" this game is. A week or two ago, it was "all that". People were playing it online - places like Twitch, with large audiences - talking about how great it was (and it is great) - but one by one they became less and less. And the topic became how very hard it was - too hard for the average gamer - I repeat, YOUR bread and butter. Well it's your choice. I hope you do the right thing.

[2Pam]

OK so after my 2nd attempt, I beat the mission (Well, my 2nd and a half, I savescummed a bit), and I think I've identified the key issue making it difficult. On my first attempt, I used Cecilia, and I did manage to kill every enemy wielder at least once, but then they came back with an even stronger army, while I was almost empty on troops. On my second attempt I used Stormspire and my losses were significantly lower (Thanks to Jean le Chauve, his videos really helped, you can find them on the previous page.), but I made the mistake of taking too long to reach the nearest Fortress/Excavation and one of the enemies respawned with a bunch of legions. (I now know that I could have probably won if I put 4/5 Faye Ravagers into each stack and just spammed Chain Lightning, since he took out my 1-stack Faye's with the Armageddon spell, forget what's is called here).

My point is, while you are trudging through the Tenderwyld, and afterwards building up your strength, the enemy is stacking High Legions, the strongest undead troop. Interestingly they don't seem to put them on any Wielders UNTIL you kill them once, and they respawn. So the goal becomes building enough of an army to kill the three Wielders and rush the closest Fortress BEFORE they respawn there. Which is what I did on attempt 2.5.

I don't know if the enemy needs to spend precious resources and gold to respawn Wielders, as you do, or just gold, as in the skirmish. Either way I believe having two TIer 5 cities from the start, and taking the third one at around the 15th/20th round gives them a huge gold lead, which is why it seems like they are just respawning for free the first time you play the mission.

However their other cities don't seem to be that developed, and once you take the first Fortress they just spawn with minuscule armies. Another interesting thing is that the last Excavation, where Weish is waiting, does have the Summoning Circle (Which produces Legions/High Legions), yet I never saw them spawn their Wielders with Legions after taking the first Fortress.

I really think if the enemy didn't have a Summoning Circle in the closest city, the mission would be much easier. IMHO, it should be removed, and the later portion of the missions scaled a bit in difficulty, since once you take that city, you can take the next Fortress in a couple of turns, and then you have more income and troop generation than the enemy. He is left with one Tier 5, a couple of small settlements, and potentially a large settlement in the west part of the map.

I rambled a bit but the tl;dr is I believe most get killed as I did, because without meta-knowledge of the map, once you kill the enemy Wielders they respawn close to you with a sizeable number of High Legions.

[Godforbid]

For me they did not spawn a single legion untill i took the 2. to last city from them

[Maloney]

This is not an easy task to them to balance to skill level of players, given all players are different. I didn't struggle with the campaign so i wouldn't want them to water it down any.

I will point of for anyone else that's struggling that the 4th mission is totally different from the others. Instead of just walking through the various battles (the first three missions were not a challenge just an introduction) you now have to play the game. They have given you all the tools you need to do it its just up to the player to adapt. You can beat that stage.

[Malarky Enthusiast]

LEARN HOW TO USE PARAGRAPHS

[Kalitz]

Who cares about campaign? lol these types of games live through skirmish and multiplayer.

[Wizard of Woz]

Ursprünglich geschrieben von Kalitz:

Who cares about campaign? lol these types of games live through skirmish and multiplayer.

Actually no they don't. Most people don't have the attention span to wait for other people to take their turn.

[Dunadd]

Ursprünglich geschrieben von Maloney:

This is not an easy task to them to balance to skill level of players, given all players are different. I didn't struggle with the campaign so i wouldn't want them to water it down any.

I will point of for anyone else that's struggling that the 4th mission is totally different from the others. Instead of just walking through the various battles (the first three missions were not a challenge just an introduction) you now have to play the game. They have given you all the tools you need to do it its just up to the player to adapt. You can beat that stage.

Obvious solution is multiple difficulty levels, with the current difficulty being "very hard" or "impossible" and several lower difficulty levels that give the player more troops and starting resources, and reduce the strength of neutrals.

@ EngineerKenny I agree the campaigns are to ohard just now and need easier difficulty settings options. But you can play single player one off maps at the moment by going to Single Player, Skirmish and setting all opponents to be AI players. There are developer made one off maps and dozens of player made ones which you can download in seconds

[EngineerKenny 123]

@dcmf - Thanks for the reply. Yes, I have played many of the skirmish maps, including player-made ones. The skirmish is what it is all about. I appreciate your comment. The point of my writing the original post was to just let the devs know the negativity I have been reading over and over about the difficulty of the campaigns, and I don't want to see their sales plummet as a result. Nothing more - nothing less. I actually did complete the 4th campaign mission last night - but it took me 9 restarts. I want this game to become as widely played as HOMM 2 and 3. And I do agree that the skirmishes are what this game is all about - particularly when (if) they get the random map implemented.

[Kalitz]

Ursprünglich geschrieben von wizard_of_woz:

Ursprünglich geschrieben von Kalitz:

Who cares about campaign? lol these types of games live through skirmish and multiplayer.

Actually no they don't. Most people don't have the attention span to wait for other people to take their turn.

Not true.