DOOM Eternal

DOOM Eternal

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DOOM Eternal > General Discussions > Topic Details
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1337Dude Jun 11, 2019 @ 11:29pm
Is Doom dead for the real fans?
Doom 2016, for many veteran PC gamers, was a pretty bad game. It didn't reflect the original outside of borrowing enemy designs and the combat felt like an amalgamation of all the bad tropes in recent FPS games (focus on melee + melee instant kills). No matter which way you dice it - these are bad mechanics that appeal more to nugamers than the ones who originally fell in love with Doom. All of my friends who played Doom also agreed it's bad. The only people praising it I've seen were game journalists who were paid to praise it (and played it for free) - or people gaslit by gaming journalism (e.g. people who actually think reviews are a real unfiltered opinion).

I'm looking at this new game and it's just driving the stake further in the heart of the series. Should the original Doom fans just forget about Doom at this point?
Originally posted by Willhelm:
Who cares, wait until the game is released before all of you start making assumptions

Right? Who cares?

Let's all just pre-order right now!

Obviously getting our money's worth isn't important. How silly of us to even consider that.

Bethesda obviously needs our money and they need us to keep criticism to a minimum and keep the praise coming.

Bethesda are the victims. The important thing, above all, is that we just give them our money.
Last edited by 1337Dude; Jun 14, 2019 @ 11:46pm
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Showing 1,306-1,320 of 1,506 comments
Salamand3r- Sep 24, 2019 @ 12:38pm 
Originally posted by Gameo:
Just shooting things grows dull very quickly.
There's needs to be some brain involved.

I know, thinking is hard.

Not if the shooting and surviving takes a good amount of "getting in the zone". It's a different kind of thinking to a...thinking? game like a 4X.

Or the thinking of dealing with new wads and mods just to put a coat of paint over the same damn clunky mechanics we were all happy to be rid of once Quake came out, but suddenly became all nostalgic when source ports hit the spotlight.
Last edited by Salamand3r-; Sep 24, 2019 @ 12:40pm
Gameo Sep 24, 2019 @ 12:43pm 
Keep spouting ignorance, it's very entertaining.
Nothing is clunky about source ports. Nothing. They feel better than any modern pile of unadulterated garbage you are spoon fed today and eat up.

have fun with your waypoint markers, pinpoint map item locations, not-secrets, linear arenas and otherwise brain dead 'entertainment'

I'll find my way through well designed maps without any hand holding as if I were some kind of moron who can't find his own way
DevilBlackDoom Sep 24, 2019 @ 12:43pm 
Originally posted by Salamand3r:
Originally posted by Gameo:
Just shooting things grows dull very quickly.
There's needs to be some brain involved.

I know, thinking is hard.

Not if the shooting and surviving takes a good amount of "getting in the zone". It's a different kind of thinking to a...thinking? game like a 4X.

Or the thinking of dealing with new wads and mods just to put a coat of paint over the same damn clunky mechanics we were all happy to be rid of once Quake came out, but suddenly became all nostalgic when source ports hit the spotlight.
Sincerely, some people do like and have always liked Doom gameplay. I personally love them both so damn much. I mean I have countless mods and levels installed for Doom (some which I never played and are there just in case I get bored) and I have a ton of levels backlog for Quake. They both have their qualities, besides, many mods do give a much more dynamic gameplay (Trailblazer and Guncaster if you want power fantasies, BDlite if you want a more dynamic, close to vanilla gameplay, and a couple of arcade/NES inspired ones, alongside standalone mods that create completely new games like Golden Souls) !
DevilBlackDoom Sep 24, 2019 @ 12:48pm 
Originally posted by Gameo:
Keep spouting ignorance, it's very entertaining.
Nothing is clunky about source ports. Nothing. They feel better than any modern pile of unadulterated garbage you are spoon fed today and eat up.

have fun with your waypoint markers, pinpoint map item locations, not-secrets, linear arenas and otherwise brain dead 'entertainment'

I'll find my way through well designed maps without any hand holding as if I were some kind of moron who can't find his own way
Well to be honest Doom maps don't exactly require much more intellect to go through than COD maps. If you want to find the levels sure, but generally the path is pretty straightforward, it's just locked behind keydoors that make you deviate from the path, but it's still pretty linear. Some custom levels do have more interesting layouts where you can actually go multiple ways about doing some things. Waypoint markers also aren't a bad thing per se. I've never seen anyone having fun when running around a custom Doom level not finding a key or door they need because the level is designed in a way that does not make it obvious and force you into a 20 minutes chase of the next bit to tackle on. Linear arenas is spewing nonsense though. Doom 2016 arenas are very well thought-out and give many options to the players, if you think arenas in Doom 2016 are bad, then surely you must hate most Quake levels and any arena shooter it inspired (Q3L, UT series)
Gameo Sep 24, 2019 @ 12:49pm 
It's sad dude, that anyone with a modicum of intelligence has to suffer through such bottom of the barrel garbage designed for lazy unintelligent twits who demand instant gratification.

The whole industry today is an insult
Gameo Sep 24, 2019 @ 12:51pm 
Originally posted by DevilBlackDoom:
Originally posted by Gameo:
Keep spouting ignorance, it's very entertaining.
Nothing is clunky about source ports. Nothing. They feel better than any modern pile of unadulterated garbage you are spoon fed today and eat up.

have fun with your waypoint markers, pinpoint map item locations, not-secrets, linear arenas and otherwise brain dead 'entertainment'

I'll find my way through well designed maps without any hand holding as if I were some kind of moron who can't find his own way
Well to be honest Doom maps don't exactly require much more intellect to go through than COD maps. If you want to find the levels sure, but generally the path is pretty straightforward, it's just locked behind keydoors that make you deviate from the path, but it's still pretty linear. Some custom levels do have more interesting layouts where you can actually go multiple ways about doing some things. Waypoint markers also aren't a bad thing per se. I've never seen anyone having fun when running around a custom Doom level not finding a key or door they need because the level is designed in a way that does not make it obvious and force you into a 20 minutes chase of the next bit to tackle on. Linear arenas is spewing nonsense though. Doom 2016 arenas are very well thought-out and give many options to the players, if you think arenas in Doom 2016 are bad, then surely you must hate most Quake levels and any arena shooter it inspired (Q3L, UT series)

You need to play better maps then.
Many are pretty bad because there's thousands upon thousands of them. But quite a few are astonishingly designed and do require you to understand layout to be able to navigate... without a ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ arrow pointing you there or a linear hallway to another linear hallway broken apart by an arena leading to another linear hallway.

Also bringing up AFPS is really silly here, as the name implies, they are arenas.... designed for pvp
Last edited by Gameo; Sep 24, 2019 @ 12:52pm
DevilBlackDoom Sep 24, 2019 @ 12:52pm 
Originally posted by Gameo:
It's sad dude, that anyone with a modicum of intelligence has to suffer through such bottom of the barrel garbage designed for lazy unintelligent twits who demand instant gratification.

The whole industry today is an insult
Are you talkinig about Doom 2016 there ? Doom 2016 is neither for unintelligent people nor does it give instant gratification, unless you play on Hurt me plenty (do that in classic Doom and it'll be a breeze as well anyway, so even classic Doom can give you your instant gratification...) ! While the state of the AAA industry is pretty terrible, thinking like you're the most intelligent of the herd shows the opposite, especially if you can't accept that a few very rare AAA games do have very good mechanics and game design in general.

Besides the industry does contain indie devs, and those release pretty incredible games all the time, all year long. You can generally get one good or very good indie game at least every 2 or 3 months, sometimes less !
Gameo Sep 24, 2019 @ 12:54pm 
You're just inserting things into my statements now.
I don't think I'm very intelligent in the grand scheme of things, but I'm certainly smart enough to get through a game without it putting me on a leash and walking me through it
DevilBlackDoom Sep 24, 2019 @ 12:55pm 
Originally posted by Gameo:
Originally posted by DevilBlackDoom:
Well to be honest Doom maps don't exactly require much more intellect to go through than COD maps. If you want to find the levels sure, but generally the path is pretty straightforward, it's just locked behind keydoors that make you deviate from the path, but it's still pretty linear. Some custom levels do have more interesting layouts where you can actually go multiple ways about doing some things. Waypoint markers also aren't a bad thing per se. I've never seen anyone having fun when running around a custom Doom level not finding a key or door they need because the level is designed in a way that does not make it obvious and force you into a 20 minutes chase of the next bit to tackle on. Linear arenas is spewing nonsense though. Doom 2016 arenas are very well thought-out and give many options to the players, if you think arenas in Doom 2016 are bad, then surely you must hate most Quake levels and any arena shooter it inspired (Q3L, UT series)

You need to play better maps then.
Many are pretty bad because there's thousands upon thousands of them. But quite a few are astonishingly designed and do require you to understand layout to be able to navigate... without a ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ arrow pointing you there or a linear hallway to another linear hallway broken apart by an arena leading to another linear hallway.

Also bringing up AFPS is really silly here, as the name implies, they are arenas.... designed for pvp
That's the thing though, who said arenas were for PVP ? They've been exclusively used for that until recently, doesn't mean they can't fit another role.

Don't worry I play pretty decent maps. Only cacowards winners with good ratings and few or no bad reviews on doomworld. And no, if you think you're smart cause you manage to navigate those, you need to get off your high horse dude ! Like seriously, this ain't rocket science. Many modern gamers who only play the lower-end of AAA games won't be able to navigate those sure, but doing it doesn't make you the smartest man alive by any stretch
Salamand3r- Sep 24, 2019 @ 12:56pm 
Originally posted by Gameo:
Keep spouting ignorance, it's very entertaining.
Nothing is clunky about source ports. Nothing. They feel better than any modern pile of unadulterated garbage you are spoon fed today and eat up.

have fun with your waypoint markers, pinpoint map item locations, not-secrets, linear arenas and otherwise brain dead 'entertainment'

I'll find my way through well designed maps without any hand holding as if I were some kind of moron who can't find his own way

"well designed" maps. Doom's maps are generally almost experimental in how primitive they are - partly due to the limitations of the engine, but partly because they were just that. Experimental.

A good deal of the "thought" required is due to non-intuitive layouts, clunky design necessitated by the lack of rooms-over-rooms, and enemy placement designed to result in cheap deaths or cheap, spammy gameplay.

There are some true gems in classic Doom/2, but there is also a lot of schlock that had more workarounds than actual design.

As to waypoints - sure, the giant color coded doors, the fact that you can almost always just follow the "are the enemies here still alive? good, that's the way" method for finding the path, the fact that secret doors are almost always denoted by a slightly off-color texture, and you have something that isn't much different to having a way point, just more inconvenient.

@DevilBlackDoom - you have to remember when Gameo talks about Doom levels, he is also including ALL the custom wads that ever existed. He refuses to acknowledge that mod content is not part of the base game.
Erebus Sep 24, 2019 @ 12:56pm 
Originally posted by Gameo:
You're just inserting things into my statements now.
I don't think I'm very intelligent in the grand scheme of things, but I'm certainly smart enough to get through a game without it putting me on a leash and walking me through it
But not smart enough to ignore projects that you despise to spend your time on something you enjoy like the 1000000th wad release.
DevilBlackDoom Sep 24, 2019 @ 12:58pm 
Originally posted by Gameo:
You're just inserting things into my statements now.
I don't think I'm very intelligent in the grand scheme of things, but I'm certainly smart enough to get through a game without it putting me on a leash and walking me through it
Well the thing is, Doom 2016 never forces you to follow its waypoint. It's not super annoying or present, and the way the leve design is done in some levels does invite you to get lost a bit and just go on your merry way without following it.

Originally posted by Gameo:
It's sad dude, that anyone with a modicum of intelligence has to suffer through such bottom of the barrel garbage designed for lazy unintelligent twits who demand instant gratification.

The whole industry today is an insult
This clearly implies that you do have a modicum of intelligence and had to "terribly suffer" in that garbage made for "idiots" even though clearly it's not. So you're clearly placing yourself above anyone playing that game or anyone it was designed for at least
Gameo Sep 24, 2019 @ 12:58pm 
Why would I ignore it when my simple presence triggers you do hard?
Wads are the best. Sucks to be you?
Salamand3r- Sep 24, 2019 @ 12:58pm 
Originally posted by Erebus:
Originally posted by Gameo:
You're just inserting things into my statements now.
I don't think I'm very intelligent in the grand scheme of things, but I'm certainly smart enough to get through a game without it putting me on a leash and walking me through it
But not smart enough to ignore projects that you despise to spend your time on something you enjoy like the 1000000th wad release.

Going after the guy for being patently obsessed with playing mods for the same 25+ year old game that was dated and moribund 20 years ago is low hanging fruit though.
Gameo Sep 24, 2019 @ 12:59pm 
Do you know what a modicum is?
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DOOM Eternal > General Discussions > Topic Details
Date Posted: Jun 11, 2019 @ 11:29pm
Posts: 1,503