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Linux refund?
" Forager will no longer be available for Mac and Linux moving forward."

Since you're taking the game away from Linux users with little explanation, and no the article you linked in your QA is about Mac not Linux and no hundreds of devs aren't leaving Linux, then I request you work with Valve to allow us to refund the game.

When the game first came out I jumped on it and love the game, but since you're ripping it out of my hands, then I can no longer play so I deserve my money back.

And if you states something about proton then that's not the same, because I supported you for a native Linux release, not for Valve doing the work.

Very sad and disappointed. Have fun with all the consoles though which will also add tons more complexity, but hey at least they'll make you more money right? That's what it's about anyway.
Originally posted by HopFrog:
Just to clarify, nobody is taking the game from your library. It will still be there and you will forever be able to play it. You bought a completed game and that is what you got, it's yours forever!

What we are doing is no longer working on support tickets for Linux moving forward. That means if you encounter a crash we won't attempt to find and solve the issue.

The article I linked explains how usually very few players use Linux (<5% for Forager), and yet it accounts for the most support requests (>35% for Forager)

I understand it's frustrating to hear news like these, but making software is more complicated than "devs are lazy" or "they don't care about me". These are just memes at this point, it just isn't a smart business decision to put my programmers to fix bugs that only 4% or 5% of players encounter when they could be building things that most people will enjoy (like multiplayer, mod support, and more content).

For refunds, you will need to contact Valve support directly as we developers don't get any say in that!

I will leave this topic open and answer some more questions you may have, but please keep in mind that if you post here you need to follow the community forum rules that Valve has asked me to enforce.

Are there any specific issues I can help you with or questions I can answer personally?
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Showing 16-30 of 60 comments
Originally posted by HopFrog:
Just to clarify, nobody is taking the game from your library. It will still be there and you will forever be able to play it. You bought a completed game and that is what you got, it's yours forever!

What we are doing is no longer working on support tickets for Linux moving forward. That means if you encounter a crash we won't attempt to find and solve the issue.

The article I linked explains how usually very few players use Linux (<5% for Forager), and yet it accounts for the most support requests (>35% for Forager)

I understand it's frustrating to hear news like these, but making software is more complicated than "devs are lazy" or "they don't care about me". These are just memes at this point, it just isn't a smart business decision to put my programmers to fix bugs that only 4% or 5% of players encounter when they could be building things that most people will enjoy (like multiplayer, mod support, and more content).

For refunds, you will need to contact Valve support directly as we developers don't get any say in that!

I will leave this topic open and answer some more questions you may have, but please keep in mind that if you post here you need to follow the community forum rules that Valve has asked me to enforce.

Are there any specific issues I can help you with or questions I can answer personally?
This still doesn't clear everything up.

- Will the Linux build see any updates or will it be basically frozen in place?

For the above, it's still not a good situation. Many people knew you were doing all these big updates and wanted to play more when they came, myself included. I was waiting for the multiplayer to play with family.

If you continue updating and completely break the Linux version, how are we supposed to react if you're not supporting it at all. We then have a broken game. This is not good.

- What are the actual issues? (apart from gamepad it works perfectly in my many hours) you've not mentioned anything. You say there's a lot of support requests, but for what? Are a lot of them the same thing, if so it's a little disingenuous to talk about a high support cost if there mostly the same. Looking around Steam, most of the issues were for gamepads.

Sad to see Linux has now been removed from the store page.
Last edited by [Linux] Liam; Oct 4 @ 11:25am
HopFrog  [developer] Oct 4 @ 11:23am 
Originally posted by *Yuki*:
does it also mean there will be no more updates to linux build?

Updates will keep happening as we scheduled them, but there is no guarantee that they will work for your OS. You can still report bugs you find, but Linux specific bugs won't be addressed. Things like gameplay balance, graphical bugs, most game crashes, etc will be fixed regardless of what your OS is



Originally posted by Patschge:
I don't like to ask you this, but wouldn't that break the law in most European Countrys?

If your still working on the game (Patches to fix it etc.), you got a responsibility that your product is working for as many customers as possible, especially if you sold it with a Linux-Tag infront of it and people did buy it with the intention to use it on Linux.

Please ask anything you are curious about! I could just wash my hands and ignore all player concerns but I actively want to help you clear things up!

It's not against any law to end support on a product that customers paid for and got delivered. This would be more complicated for services (software that you continue to pay instead of just paying for once), but for a premium product like Forager is not an issue. Players that bought the Linux version at launch did get the playable Linux version and will forever own it. Nobody can take that away from them, and nobody is attempting to. Forager was considered a "full game" when it launched on Steam, it was NOT Early Access.

The reception was so good and positive and people wanted me to keep working on it so I did. I am keeping working on it. But I don't legally need to keep working on the game. I could actually cancel all updates right now for all platforms forever if I wanted to (Forager already launched, it's not like I am going to be making a bunch of money with these). I have decided to keep working on the game because the players wanted more content, but I definitely didn't have to do that!

Even though the Linux version of Forager works, I will be removing the Linux tag from the store page to not cause confusion and disappointment for new players. Again, this is not something I have to do and it will cost me sales but I do not want to take advantage of people since we now know we can't support Linux requests anymore



Originally posted by ozoned:
Ok. DId you not know that Linux is a minority in gaming when you decided to support us?
I'm sure you did, yet you did it anyway and you took on the responsibility that you're not shirking.

I was warned that Linux is a very small minority of PC players but I wanted to make the game available to as many people as possible on launch. I didn't know how technically complicated some of the issues would be to resolve (Unfortunately I am not a great programmer)

As I mentioned, Linux players did get the full game when it came out!



Originally posted by ozoned:
As a lot of devs will tell you that Linux users normally make up a lot of the support requests because you're dealing with very technical folks that know how to dig into the technology and find issues and then we report them. That's in our DNA, to let devs know when things are not functioning.

Yes, Linux players are statistically more technically minded than the average PC user. The main issue here is that the engine we use is poorly tested for Linux builds (due mostly to low usage), so the compiled game crashes more frequently on Linux than on Windows or consoles. This is not player's fault, the game just works worse on Linux due to engine limitations (this is where the majority of support tickets come from, engine-related crashes)
A bit of empathy to you from another LInux gamer. Best of luck coming out of this adversity. I hope you will succeed in not taking any attacks against you personally. And I'm sorry that so many people are (for valid reasons) angry about this situation.
Let me ask some simple questions ... if a linux user reports a bug does it in the end raise the quality of your product ? Do you learn something ? Do you get better ?

Or all together was this report valuable in one or the other way to you ?

If so in my eyes dev's should be very happy to have linux users around giving valuable feedback.

I can see it's stressfull specially if you use some middleware which basically ignore "defaults" since a while now (for example input system from gamemaker). I am certain that you are looking into the future and opening the game for mod's opens a complete new can of errors including even more stress.

Do you think the current feedback is maybe even more valuable in the future? Do you think in the long term avoiding linux is feasable with google stadia around? Of course stadia will reduce some of the issues you are facing now but overall it's still a linux.

The rest is up to you. I am more than a little sad that one of the indie games which overall was a success , with most likely even more than the average sales on linux is dropping an audience which loved this game. Let me show how much positivity you got by supporting linux ->

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DiQbfnWryv8
https://www.gamingonlinux.com/articles/forager-is-a-weirdly-addictive-casual-grinding-game-that-has-mined-into-my-heart.13973
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f-icjbmwCvM
Last edited by schmusekater78; Oct 5 @ 12:54am
Houtworm Oct 4 @ 12:49pm 
Just rectify the situation, Blaming Linux of stuff those apple people do is not the least bit fair. Linux will only gain ground, Removing the perfectly fine working Linux port is a mistake in the long run, Linux is the future of gaming.
Originally posted by HopFrog:
Just to clarify, nobody is taking the game from your library. It will still be there and you will forever be able to play it. You bought a completed game and that is what you got, it's yours forever!

What we are doing is no longer working on support tickets for Linux moving forward. That means if you encounter a crash we won't attempt to find and solve the issue.

The article I linked explains how usually very few players use Linux (<5% for Forager), and yet it accounts for the most support requests (>35% for Forager)

I understand it's frustrating to hear news like these, but making software is more complicated than "devs are lazy" or "they don't care about me". These are just memes at this point, it just isn't a smart business decision to put my programmers to fix bugs that only 4% or 5% of players encounter when they could be building things that most people will enjoy (like multiplayer, mod support, and more content).

Now *this* is a fair answer.

Maybe at least make sure it works in Proton/WINE ?
Last edited by glub ♥Linux; Oct 4 @ 2:17pm
ozoned Oct 4 @ 2:38pm 
Right, we're not losing the game and it'll continue to work until you push a patch to the game that then makes it unpayable and you won't be supporting us even though we supported you.

You're saying you wouldn't expect equal treatment for equal pay? I didn't get to pay for a year of the game and then not pay anymore when support ends.

Originally posted by ozoned:
Right, we're not losing the game and it'll continue to work until you push a patch to the game that then makes it unpayable and you won't be supporting us even though we supported you.

You're saying you wouldn't expect equal treatment for equal pay? I didn't get to pay for a year of the game and then not pay anymore when support ends.

Yeah that's the issue I take with this too. This situation makes no sense. Remove support but still update, where it could get to a point where its completely broken. People paid the same as others. It's not entitlement, it's fair treatment.
I was just refused a refund request, and I feel kind of cheated.
Last edited by dejaime=D-Newbie; Oct 4 @ 3:04pm
spade Oct 4 @ 3:40pm 
Originally posted by Houtworm:
Just rectify the situation, Blaming Linux of stuff those apple people do is not the least bit fair. Linux will only gain ground, Removing the perfectly fine working Linux port is a mistake in the long run, Linux is the future of gaming.
how can linux be the future of gaming when less games allow people on it to play games?
Originally posted by sp@de:
Originally posted by Houtworm:
Just rectify the situation, Blaming Linux of stuff those apple people do is not the least bit fair. Linux will only gain ground, Removing the perfectly fine working Linux port is a mistake in the long run, Linux is the future of gaming.
how can linux be the future of gaming when less games allow people on it to play games?

Because now is not the future.

https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=1799575291
fydo Oct 4 @ 9:44pm 
I suspect the developer has a backwards view regarding support requests. They are a good thing!

Each support request is a wonderful opportunity to not only engage directly with your users at a time when it is needed most, but it also allows you to improve your product to the benefit of all your users. It's truly a win/win situation, especially when you can't allocate many resources to QA on platforms that aren't as familiar to you.

Linux users have given their money and time to help this developer improve their software, I think it would be only fair to either reinstate Linux support or offer full refunds.
Stonium Oct 5 @ 12:28am 
I have two questions.

1. When you reference these percentages, is this 35% figure in reference to operating system specific bugs/issues? Because if so then Linux accounts for 1/3 of all breakages and also 1/3 of the operating systems you are developing for, which is pretty darn impressive if you consider that you probably put less effort into testing it.

2. Why is not knowing about bugs that affect your game superior to knowing about bugs that affect your game? When I find a bug in a project I love and care deeply for I always report it to the developer. Why? Because I am a developer as well. And it's what I'd want.

If the bugs aren't OS specific then lemme tell you something. I very much doubt Linux users are more picky than windows users about their software being completely bug free (heck, the kind of stuff we put up with in our own OS).

There's a common line of belief that bug testing is 50% finding the bug and 50% fixing it. I'm fairly certain that many of these reports were generated with this line of thinking in mind.
Last edited by Stonium; Oct 5 @ 12:32am
Well, at least I understand now the situation. The second answer from the developer (page 2) clarify his point of view.

I can't say I agree, it creates a situation where the product is not the same for all customers, who paid the same amount of money.

But you are right that those updates weren't promised initially, they weren't even planned.

Please try to use a better engine for Linux next time. This game looks like fun, I wouldn't mind being able to play your next game.
ozoned Oct 5 @ 7:01am 
I'm guessing you're done answering questions now, but did you ever think that we make up 1/3 of all support tickets because you did no testing?

So instead of catching bugs in QA ,which you didn't do, instead we have to open bug reports, which then you have to address?

Again, best guess you made probably over $100,000 off the backs of Linux folks that believed in you and want to thank you, and you did nothing but make money and then act like it's unreasonable that we expect the same treatment as everyone else.
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