Winter Voices

Winter Voices

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The Desert III / Mechanics Exploration
You probably saw this topic coming, cthulhu985...

What magical "Oh any good build has those skills" are needed to not get totally murdered?

Surviving 10 turns would be one thing, but trying to kill an excessively stupid number of powerful enemies with this hateful Pyre Princess mode that decides most of my build's healing abilities can't be used even if they allow me any PP to use in the first place is another matter altogether.

Level 19
Humor 90
Will Power 95 (+77)
Memory 10 (+25, stupid crow)
Perspicacity 50 (+60)
Charisma 50 (+30)
Intuition 115 (+95)
Energy Points 1186
Mitigation 9%
Absorption lol who cares these guys are doing 200+ to me
Dodging 21% and I don't believe it

Every skill on the first ring from Betrayal to Good Intentions
Every skill on the second ring from Erosion to Transfer of Affection
Efficiency
Entertainment

Respecs available 0 because screw you player go repeat the last 35 hours.
Last edited by Miraglyth; Jun 13 @ 9:42am
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Showing 1-15 of 37 comments
...it's going to be Blaze, isn't it. You're supposed to only be able to win this battle with some absurd specialised build or that one Pyre Princess skill choice from 3 chapters ago that burns all the enemies so you only need to Wildfire them all, right?

Got to be blunt, Cinders had better have a use like this in chapter 6 because I'm not going to be happy if I ended up choosing the one Pyre Princess skill that is a total waste of space. By which I mean I'm not going to be happy if this ~50 hour game even has a skill choice that can totally stuff you in such a way.
Ha, you might notice that the 120% success on this battle is the only battle-related achievement I don't have, excluding Secret of the Norns stuff. That's because if I remember correctly I spent a lot of time getting even 100% success.

I'll have to replay it to tell you anything useful, will do that later.
Originally posted by cthulhu985:
Ha, you might notice that the 120% success on this battle is the only battle-related achievement I don't have...

Actually FYI, thanks to the recent game privacy change, other people can't notice that! :steammocking:

More than the 120%, I think this is the first 100% in the entire game I'll have to give up on. After spending quite a bit of effort doing so in the first half of the chapter, it kind of sucks that I'll have to let go of the 100%-for-the-episode with this character.

In my research before posting, I've seen others including yourself discuss how much of a dramatic change of pace this battle and one of the chapter 6 ones is. Honestly... I must agree with the people in those topics that said this isn't good design.

Either way, I can imagine this is only possible to 120% (or perhaps even 100%) with Blaze. It reduces the number of Burn castings needed by 17:

- 4x Whispered Anguish that would normally need two Burns each before Wildfire kills them.
- 3x Whispered Despair that need three fewer Burns each to kill (one, down from four).

In other words a saving of 58 PP (after deducting Blaze's cost), and surely making the fight much easier by virtue of killing the enemies fast enough to reduce the damage received.
Last edited by Miraglyth; May 6 @ 3:56pm
Originally posted by Miraglyth:
Actually FYI, thanks to the recent game privacy change, other people can't notice that! :steammocking:
Ah, right, they made absolutely useless changes to default settings recently.

So, I tried replaying the battle a few times, didn't manage to win it yet. I did remember my general strategy though: use To The Fore to run to the edge and avoid enemies ganging up on you.
My build also has quite high initial PP (25), and at level 30 Efficiency adds another 15 PP every 3 turns.

I've Inner Fire, not Blaze, so the battle must be winnable without it. But you need either to be able to run in circles around the enemies (maybe Cinders can help there?) or to soak up a lot of damage.
Originally posted by cthulhu985:
I've Inner Fire, not Blaze, so the battle must be winnable without it. But you need either to be able to run in circles around the enemies (maybe Cinders can help there?) or to soak up a lot of damage.

Or at the very least progressable. The best I could manage with Cinders was 60% and only then by suicidally taking out all of the Whispered Anguish while getting killed.

Define winnable! You can progress at any %. Given the number of enemies I'm not sure Inner Fire could be all that useful either; if the aim is 120% - that is, to defeat all the enemies by turn 8 - it can only be used twice.
Originally posted by Miraglyth:
Define winnable!
As in 100% success. I did manage it before on every battle including this one.
Right now I got 70% after only a few tries.

Mine current best tactics seems as follows: kill the mobile Whispered enemy on the left on the first turn, then run to bottom right, kill the second mobile enemy there, then make my way to the left side of the field, maybe killing some of the stationary enemies in the process, and at the moment that's usually where To The Fore runs out and too many enemies catch up with me. :D

120% seems really impossible without Blaze, and even then it needs a build which can stand the damage. Otherwise it needs very high PP, and I'm not sure it's even theoretically possible to get enough.
Last edited by cthulhu985; May 8 @ 2:11am
Originally posted by cthulhu985:
Mine current best tactics seems as follows: kill the mobile Whispered enemy on the left on the first turn

Wait, the Whispered Despair that have 15,000 energy? In one turn? How?
Originally posted by Miraglyth:
Wait, the Whispered Despair that have 15,000 energy? In one turn? How?
25 initial PP + 15 PP from Efficiency + Inner Fire.
You're level 30/31 in that fight? The memory impact on experience is much larger than I thought.

That would pay for for Burns and two Wildfires, yes. Not much to save yourself from surely even stronger enemies though.
Yes, level 30.
Memory is important, but you don't need to max it out to reach XP cap for each episode. It makes you vulnerable though: my Maximum Memory Volva has about -100% mitigation.
But she also has ~1200 EP, reasonably high Absorption by way of 'Such a cold and lonesome heroine' skill, ~25% Dodge and high regeneration.

On the first turn only one or two enemies come in range to attack, so that's survivable, as long as you don't step in range of stationary enemies, and then To the Fore kicks in and I run away.
Last edited by cthulhu985; May 8 @ 3:45am
I'm surprised the EP isn't higher. I've almost got that from Willpower alone at 11 levels less (losing 330 energy from the missing level ups alone).

11 extra skill points and better Efficiency though... that has to make up for basically doubled damage. At the very least you can spend those points on the Mitigation skills and nullify the extra damage.
That is -100% Mitigation with at least some passive skills mitigating it already.
Would be even worse otherwise. As far as I remember at some point I decided that soaking up damage wouldn't really work for my build and to invest in Dodge instead.

More powerful Efficiency helps only if you can avoid increased number of attacks.
Oh that's with mitigation skills already. Hm... I suppose this is why I mostly hear about summon-centric Volva, because enemies that target allies are doing 100% less damage to you?

Which overall is fine but not so great when you need to kill half a dozen enemies and die within 9 turns.

Maybe a tanky low-memory Weaver with Blaze?
Last edited by Miraglyth; May 8 @ 4:46am
That's a build that would work for a lot of battles. Probably still would require some fine-tuning for this one: you might've trouble getting a tank killed. I think I had that problem in some other battle.
Originally posted by cthulhu985:
That's a build that would work for a lot of battles. Probably still would require some fine-tuning for this one: you might've trouble getting a tank killed. I think I had that problem in some other battle.

That would be a bit of a kicker if you spent all that time making a character that could survive long enough to take out the Whispered foes but too long to die in time! :cfacepalm:

Then again we're talking about a build that's specifically designed to go for this achievement so it should have skill points to spare by Episode 5. Even if it ends up with too much Willpower, there are some skills that you can use to help yourself suicide, no?
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