Should I NOT clean the official game esms with TES5Edit?

[Lampros]

I think I finally have found the source of my woes. As a last resort, I tried to verify game cache, and it said 7 files are missing and will be reacquired.

Now, interestingly, once I reacquired them, LOOT says that all the official esms had a bunch of deleted navmeshes and references and should be cleaned with TES5Edit. And I recall that I cleaned these earlier with TES5edit for the same reason.

So I am wondering if I should not have followed LOOT's directions here, given that I believe that's what caused my game cache to break.

Or is my theory unsound? And if I am right, then why did Gopher's TES5Edit cleaning tutorial said I should clean those 4 main game esms?

[Bomb Bloke]

You'll probably get differing opinions on this, but my two cents are to never clean the original ESMs, and only clean other mod files if you're attempting to troubleshoot specific bugs.

If you do think you have reason to clean a file, check the mod author's thoughts on the matter before you do - if they don't say anything, then go for it, but you'll find some who say their "dirty" edits are in fact required for their mods to work correctly.

[Lampros]

Messaggio originale di Bomb Bloke:

You'll probably get differing opinions on this, but my two cents are to never clean the original ESMs, and only clean other mod files if you're attempting to troubleshoot specific bugs.

If you do think you have reason to clean a file, check the mod author's thoughts on the matter before you do - if they don't say anything, then go for it, but you'll find some who say their "dirty" edits are in fact required for their mods to work correctly.

I will be sure to follow your advice next time. And I hope I've finally solved my problem! ;)

[♥ Barney ♥]

Messaggio originale di Bomb Bloke:

You'll probably get differing opinions on this, but my two cents are to never clean the original ESMs, and only clean other mod files if you're attempting to troubleshoot specific bugs.

If you do think you have reason to clean a file, check the mod author's thoughts on the matter before you do - if they don't say anything, then go for it, but you'll find some who say their "dirty" edits are in fact required for their mods to work correctly.

No, No, No.

If you are using mods then the official esms need to be cleaned. Gopher is right, and he provided a good explanation of why this is important in his video and why not cleaning can lead to problems.

OP, if you verify the game cache Steam sees that the esms you cleaned before are different and so redownloads what they original were--the original dirty ones. Thats why LOOT is saying they need cleaning again, Steam redownloaded the dirty ones back in cos you verified the cache.

If in future you verify the game cache, copy and paste your cleaned officials esms into a folder on your desktop, then when its finished verifying you can copy and paste the cleaned esms back in.

[Zoron]

Messaggio originale di ♥ Barney ♥:

Messaggio originale di Bomb Bloke:

You'll probably get differing opinions on this, but my two cents are to never clean the original ESMs, and only clean other mod files if you're attempting to troubleshoot specific bugs.

If you do think you have reason to clean a file, check the mod author's thoughts on the matter before you do - if they don't say anything, then go for it, but you'll find some who say their "dirty" edits are in fact required for their mods to work correctly.

No, No, No.

If you are using mods then the official esms need to be cleaned. Gopher is right, and he provided a good explanation of why this is important in his video and why not cleaning can lead to problems.

OP, if you verify the game cache it sees that the esms you cleaned before are different and so redownloads what they original were--the original dirty ones. Thats why LOOT is saying they need cleaning, the dirty ones are back cos you verified the cache.

If in future you verify the game cache, copy and paste your cleaned officials esms into a folder on your desktop, then when its finished verifying you can copy and paste the cleaned esms back in.

i concur, cleaning them actually lessens ctds and other issues even not modded.

[Lampros]

Hmmm, more confusion! ;(

Ilja and Nazenn, give us some clarity here! :)

For what its worth, my game performance has improved dramatically since I verified the game cache and did NOT clean the official files after LOOT told me to any more.

While my game is certainly not without problems (Faendal once insisted on fighting naked for one fight for some odd reason), I no longer see egregious problems like everything floating and immortal enemies, etc.

But again, it may be too early to tell.

[Zoron]

Messaggio originale di Lampros:

Hmmm, more confusion! ;(

Ilja and Nazenn, give us some clarity here! :)

For what its worth, my game performance has improved dramatically since I verified the game cache and did NOT clean the official files after LOOT told me to any more.

While my game is certainly not without problems (Faendal once insisted on fighting naked for one fight for some odd reason), I no longer see egregious problems like everything floating and immortal enemies, etc.

But again, it may be too early to tell.

floating happens no matter what once in a while, skyrim even with a butt load of patches always has bugs. get a mod to fix flying suicidal mammoths next thing ya know ya got duplicates of everyone in skyrim wandering the plains of whiterun XD fix a dialogue bug, next thing ya know every guard is hostile permanently no matter what you do. XD

[♥ Barney ♥]

Messaggio originale di Lampros:

Hmmm, more confusion! ;(

Ilja and Nazenn, give us some clarity here! :)

For what its worth, my game performance has improved dramatically since I verified the game cache and did NOT clean the official files after LOOT told me to any more.

While my game is certainly not without problems (Faendal once insisted on fighting naked for one fight for some odd reason), I no longer see egregious problems like everything floating and immortal enemies, etc.

But again, it may be too early to tell.

Watch and Listen carefully 00.50 onwards

Gopher video - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fw3g_N1jcZQ

Further watching and listening

S.T.E.P project video - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i50wxDuEnn0

[Roscaria]

You said 7 files had to be reacquired. Allowing for Update.esm and the three DLC's plus the 1 file required by Steam for graphic configuration that leaves you with 2 missing files unaccounted for, so why assume that cleaning the master files was incorrect?

[0laf_.]

lol steam will re-acquire files everytime you click on validate game files once game files are modified this is normal no need to panic there steam will restore them to their original state this is again normal and you should definitely clean official esm ( except skyrim.esm ) if you are playing a modded game. there are many threads, videos and discussions on it. there is also no difference in game's performance when running a cleaned game

[Lampros]

Messaggio originale di ♥ Barney ♥:

Watch and Listen carefully 00.50 onwards

Gopher video - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fw3g_N1jcZQ

Further watching and listening

S.T.E.P project video - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i50wxDuEnn0

I watched Gopher's video already; and that's why I initially cleaned the official files. And I just watched S.T.E.P. video now - thanks for the link.

Nonetheless, I can only go by what is going on in my system, and not cleaning the official files seem to work better for me. But again, I may be speaking prematurely. I may also be attributing false causations since I simply don't know better.

[Lampros]

Messaggio originale di Roscaria:

You said 7 files had to be reacquired. Allowing for Update.esm and the three DLC's plus the 1 file required by Steam for graphic configuration that leaves you with 2 missing files unaccounted for, so why assume that cleaning the master files was incorrect?

Good point. As I said, I have extremely limited knowledge regarding these things, so I may be falsely attributing causations when they are merely coincidences.

[Bomb Bloke]

Heh. I said people might not agree with me. But still:

Messaggio originale di The Dovah King:

floating happens no matter what once in a while, skyrim even with a butt load of patches always has bugs. get a mod to fix flying suicidal mammoths next thing ya know ya got duplicates of everyone in skyrim wandering the plains of whiterun XD fix a dialogue bug, next thing ya know every guard is hostile permanently no matter what you do. XD

Speaking as one who's never "cleaned" a file, I've also never encountered any of the bugs you've mentioned here.

Not saying there's a link (... but I won't say there isn't, either), though the game's quite stable without cleaning. I mean, sure, I hit the occasional CTD (every few to several hours of play, say), but I've not encountered anything like the weirdness you're describing.

Don't get me wrong, if you're experiencing problems with a mod file you really want to use, sure, try cleaning it (subject to the author's instructions). But I don't think people should "start out" by attempting to fix that which might not actually be broken. Things can only get worse, yeah?

Really I'd like to hear some specific reproducible instances of problems that only occur with uncleaned masters. I've not come across any such reports.

[Roscaria]

Must admit I had never used TES5Edit on my first three play throughs of Skyrim and never noticed any problems but then I was not using more than a handful of mods.

[mpd1958]

I purchased the game when it was first released for PC and played it for 1.5 years without cleaning, or mods and it would CTD every single time I played. Sometimes every 5 -10 minutes, sometimes not for hours.

Then I decided to start modding my game on my own, no videos, no forum. Talk about problems!!! I eventually watched some vids on modding by Gopher, Got the Unofficial Patches, SkyUI, SKSE, TES5edit. Cleaned the masters, and my game has run pretty stable ever since with FPS averaging 50 - 60 with 70 plus mods running.

There are so many factors that contribute to the problems people are having, GPU, CPU, Settings, Ram, OS, just to name a few. There will never be ONE solution for the problems in this game because everybody has a differant PC.

The best you can do is listen and learn from those on this forum who have been playing the longest (we all know who they are, and I for one Thank them) and have found solutions to so many of the problems faced by us players. Not every solution will work for everyone but it is a good place to start the learning process.

OP, best of luck to you on getting your game running and stable!

[Nazenn]

You can find a breakdown of exactly WHAT the things you are cleaning out are, ITMs and UDRs specifically, in my guide here:

Advanced Tips: Memory, .Inis and Myth Busting
https://steamcommunity.com/app/72850/discussions/0/619573787397876592/

Yes the ITMs and UDRs from the games official files should be clean (excluding Skyrim.esm). Not only do they have increased bugginess occasionally when not cleaned (again, anyone who takes the 'i haven't had bugs so they don't exist' approach can just shut up and leave this thread, your comment isn't needed, we have heard it before), but if you leave the ITMs and UDRs in the files, not only do they interfear with the USKPs fixes but they actually interfear with fixes that Bethesda themselves implimented.
ANYTHING that has a UDR is a risk to crash your game. ANYTHING that has a ITM is a risk to create a mod conflict. Good practice is to safely clean them all out, HOWEVER on this forum me and Ilja take the stance of you should not clean mod files because a lot of people clean out neccessary edits for ITMs and then break mods, and a lot of people just blinding run the filter on everything doing damage to their game.