Ultimate is a bit hard

[Smoothhoof]

Three of my armies chewed up so far. The Normans especially don't seem to have any weak units. All armoured, all tough.

I think instead of lowering taxes I should have been building spare armies.

[Smoothhoof]

Slogged my way to the end. Ultimate victory! For some reason I wasn't able to liberate any Irish factions (except Ulaid, which happened earlier), so I had to occupy a lot of Ireland to wipe out the Norse.

Is there a point beyond which you cannot liberate any more? That would seem strange. Or does there have to be a cultural percentage left in the province to liberate that faction?

[markeason]

Congratulations.

Approximately how many turns does it take?

[Smoothhoof]

About 200. There is an achievement for doing it in less. I think I did it in 220 or something.

[Mile pro Libertate]

İlk olarak Smoothhoof tarafından gönderildi:

Slogged my way to the end. Ultimate victory! For some reason I wasn't able to liberate any Irish factions (except Ulaid, which happened earlier), so I had to occupy a lot of Ireland to wipe out the Norse.

Is there a point beyond which you cannot liberate any more? That would seem strange. Or does there have to be a cultural percentage left in the province to liberate that faction?

Nice.

Afaik, liberation should always be possible.

[Mile pro Libertate]

İlk olarak markeason tarafından gönderildi:

Congratulations.

Approximately how many turns does it take?

It really depends on playstyle, the world map situaution, and difficulty settings.

The game is balanced (as virtually all the historical TWs are) with 225 turns max length in mind.

On Legendary, ToB does seem to be balanced very well regards that, because it will typically take 200 to 230 turns to get Ultimate.

It always ended up being ~ 215 turns with me, at least so far.

İlk olarak Smoothhoof tarafından gönderildi:

About 200. There is an achievement for doing it in less. I think I did it in 220 or something.

The achievement you're referring to ("Speedy Subjugation") is for conquering all the regions on the world map in less than 200 turns.

This seems to be nigh impossible to do on higher difficulties.

Even long time TW player, LegendofTotalWar, whose YT channel specializes in speeding through the games using every trick and exploit available, wasn't able to get the achievment on his Northumbrian playthrough, and that was after he'd ♥♥♥♥♥♥ the experience winning Ultimate on Legendary two or three times previously with Sudreyar and Wessex.

In his Achievement Guide, forum regular Ernavill recommends turning difficulty down to easy to get that achievement.

[Mile pro Libertate]

İlk olarak spoderman_spoody | Lvl 29 Druid tarafından gönderildi:

Welcome to total war games, where the idea of "difficulty" means giving the same AI cheat codes, abnormal buffs, and nerfing the player beyond belief. Let's face it, they don't know how to program computer nations that act like players even after decades of experience. It's always been the same tired crap since day one. The people that beat the game on legendary? sure, they're good, but they mostly know how to "trick" the ai by outplaying them, it's not skill, and it's certainly not rewarding in any sense. We should be able to capitalize on the AI making human mistakes, such as advancing an army too far by accident one season, building the wrong building once in awhile and having to demo and rebuild it, forgetting to place the army in the "proper" mode and gaining absurd attrition. Nope, instead, again, we get the same old BS of computers that know exactly where your armies are at all times and exactly the optimal way to react to it. They don't get fog of war whether you accept that or not because that would BREAK them to the point they couldn't compete. Thankfully bringing us back to the original point that they don't know what the F they are doing except FARMING YOUR WALLET.

You may enjoy this old thread:
https://steamcommunity.com/app/712100/discussions/0/2646361461403431468/

[markeason]

Ouch. That's a long slog.

I'll save that for a Legendary play-through then.

[Smoothhoof]

İlk olarak Mile pro Libertate tarafından gönderildi:

İlk olarak Smoothhoof tarafından gönderildi:

Slogged my way to the end. Ultimate victory! For some reason I wasn't able to liberate any Irish factions (except Ulaid, which happened earlier), so I had to occupy a lot of Ireland to wipe out the Norse.

Is there a point beyond which you cannot liberate any more? That would seem strange. Or does there have to be a cultural percentage left in the province to liberate that faction?

Nice.

Afaik, liberation should always be possible.

I don't know what I was doing wrong then. Maybe I just didn't happen to capture a deceased faction's home province or something like that. Thanks.

[K1tt3nM4ng0]

İlk olarak Mile pro Libertate tarafından gönderildi:

İlk olarak markeason tarafından gönderildi:

Congratulations.

Approximately how many turns does it take?

It really depends on playstyle, the world map situaution, and difficulty settings.

The game is balanced (as virtually all the historical TWs are) with 225 turns max length in mind.

On Legendary, ToB does seem to be balanced very well regards that, because it will typically take 200 to 230 turns to get Ultimate.

It always ended up being ~ 215 turns with me, at least so far.

Lol, in my first campaign, with Sudreyar, it took me around 340 turns to achieve an Ultimate victory and wipe out just about everything - I say just about as things started coming apart at the seams after stomping out Wessex, with Northleode starting to make a resurgence. And that was on Normal/Normal/Normal.

That being said, I usually don't finish my campaigns with the Ultimate victory, with all but my latest (with Mercia), as it usually takes me more time to earn the Fame victories than the Ultimate one. I think it was with Northumbria that I finished the Ultimate victory at about the 120th turn, while I still took 40-something turns to conquer everything and achieve the Fame victories.

[Mile pro Libertate]

İlk olarak K1tt3nM4ng0 tarafından gönderildi:

İlk olarak Mile pro Libertate tarafından gönderildi:

It really depends on playstyle, the world map situaution, and difficulty settings.

The game is balanced (as virtually all the historical TWs are) with 225 turns max length in mind.

On Legendary, ToB does seem to be balanced very well regards that, because it will typically take 200 to 230 turns to get Ultimate.

It always ended up being ~ 215 turns with me, at least so far.

Lol, in my first campaign, with Sudreyar, it took me around 340 turns to achieve an Ultimate victory and wipe out just about everything - I say just about as things started coming apart at the seams after stomping out Wessex, with Northleode starting to make a resurgence. And that was on Normal/Normal/Normal.

That sounds like it was a fun campaign. It's always interesting when old factions make a reappearance, and then even more fun when they actually start getting a foothold.

At least you enjoyed it too. I remember a guy ("Lord Aloyious" or something) who trolled here back when the game was new, and he made a thread talking about how the game was too easy or too unengaging, even going for Ultimate, and then I checked his profile and he had a ♥♥♥ of the Summary screen when he won: it was like 437 turns to get an Ultimate with Wessex. Lol. Can't make this stuff up.

İlk olarak K1tt3nM4ng0 tarafından gönderildi:

That being said, I usually don't finish my campaigns with the Ultimate victory, with all but my latest (with Mercia), as it usually takes me more time to earn the Fame victories than the Ultimate one. I think it was with Northumbria that I finished the Ultimate victory at about the 120th turn, while I still took 40-something turns to conquer everything and achieve the Fame victories.

Yeah I basically never try for Fame wins. I might give that a go though some time.

[BastardSword]

İlk olarak Smoothhoof tarafından gönderildi:

I don't know what I was doing wrong then. Maybe I just didn't happen to capture a deceased faction's home province or something like that. Thanks.

Probably. I assume it's like Shogun 2 where the faction has to be dead and you have to be taking over one of their original starting provinces.

You may have also noticed that there are some "zombie" factions that don't exist at the start of the game, but can arise when rebellions happen in "their" provinces, or when liberated. Hwicce, Dorset, Cumbria and East Seaxe are the ones I know of.

[K1tt3nM4ng0]

İlk olarak Mile pro Libertate tarafından gönderildi:

That sounds like it was a fun campaign. It's always interesting when old factions make a reappearance, and then even more fun when they actually start getting a foothold.

At least you enjoyed it too. I remember a guy ("Lord Aloyious" or something) who trolled here back when the game was new, and he made a thread talking about how the game was too easy or too unengaging, even going for Ultimate, and then I checked his profile and he had a ♥♥♥ of the Summary screen when he won: it was like 437 turns to get an Ultimate with Wessex. Lol. Can't make this stuff up.

Hehe, comical that "Lord" ;)

To be honest it was at the far end of my campaign, morale and revenue were both very low in my kingdom, and lots of regions were starting to rebel. My armies were all exhausted/out of supply, way far to the south, while rebellions were in Scotland and to the northwest of Ireland, I just gave up. (And well, I had already earned all victories by then.)

My second campaign, with Dyflin, was probably the most fun of all of them, I was rich throughout, conquering the map non-linearly, and faced no rebellions. Also cut a bit more than 100 turns to a comprehensive victory i.e. achieve all victory conditions and conquer everything.

İlk olarak Mile pro Libertate tarafından gönderildi:

Yeah I basically never try for Fame wins. I might give that a go though some time.

I liked that Creative Assembly tried to give us a non-military victory type (if people really are the type to stop at a 'victory' while another faction lives), but I find that the Fame victories don't work so well, because to have all the territories you need to construct those monuments (since where you build them is prescriptive), you basically need to win a long conquest victory, which then means you face Viking invasions and might as well do the ultimate. Throughout which you probably (if you haven't already) achieve a Long Kingdom victory. Then it just takes time, because building all of that stuff is probably the longest aspect of the game, as you need armies to protect yourself but can't afford the buildings if you have the armies. Just complicated.

I like the idea and would like to see them iterate on it in future TW games.

Still, for me, every "successful" campaign for me I tried to achieve all goals, though once or twice I failed and needed to start over after achieving only one. These didn't feel like victories though.

[BastardSword]

Fame victories are annoying and I think they could have come up with a better system. You have to go to the far corners of the map to get the buildings you need. If you do this early on then you end up at war with random factions far from home, or if you do it later on when you have more territory, you might as well just do a conquest or even kingdom victory.

I think there's one faction that has a relatively easy route to a fame victory but I can't remember which one. All the others are like have a top tier building in Scotland, another in South Wales, and other in the furthest corner of Ireland, etc.

[Mile pro Libertate]

İlk olarak BastardSword tarafından gönderildi:

Fame victories are annoying and I think they could have come up with a better system. You have to go to the far corners of the map to get the buildings you need. If you do this early on then you end up at war with random factions far from home, or if you do it later on when you have more territory, you might as well just do a conquest or even kingdom victory.

I think there's one faction that has a relatively easy route to a fame victory but I can't remember which one. All the others are like have a top tier building in Scotland, another in South Wales, and other in the furthest corner of Ireland, etc.

Yes that's a big reason I've never went for them either.

It would have been good if the famous sites were set to be more organic to the faction, so Dublin has to get all the Irish holy sites and the Granian Ailech, for example.

But yeah, having to go all the way to the south of England as Dublin is kinda silly, because as you and K1tt3n said, might as well just do a Conquest Victory then.

Another alternative would be if the devs had made a very unique, very powerful faction perk that only Fame Victory gave, something which made Ultimate easier to do, let's say, like your fame causes factions of similar culture to be incorporated into your faction. As it stands though, I don't think the player really gets anything from a Fame Victory they wouldn't just get with a Kingdom or Conquest Victory.

[K1tt3nM4ng0]

İlk olarak Mile pro Libertate tarafından gönderildi:

İlk olarak BastardSword tarafından gönderildi:

Fame victories are annoying and I think they could have come up with a better system. You have to go to the far corners of the map to get the buildings you need. If you do this early on then you end up at war with random factions far from home, or if you do it later on when you have more territory, you might as well just do a conquest or even kingdom victory.

I think there's one faction that has a relatively easy route to a fame victory but I can't remember which one. All the others are like have a top tier building in Scotland, another in South Wales, and other in the furthest corner of Ireland, etc.

Yes that's a big reason I've never went for them either.

It would have been good if the famous sites were set to be more organic to the faction, so Dublin has to get all the Irish holy sites and the Granian Ailech, for example.

But yeah, having to go all the way to the south of England as Dublin is kinda silly, because as you and K1tt3n said, might as well just do a Conquest Victory then.

Another alternative would be if the devs had made a very unique, very powerful faction perk that only Fame Victory gave, something which made Ultimate easier to do, let's say, like your fame causes factions of similar culture to be incorporated into your faction. As it stands though, I don't think the player really gets anything from a Fame Victory they wouldn't just get with a Kingdom or Conquest Victory.

I don't think that would have worked, because I can almost never do a Fame victory before an Ultimate victory - at least I didn't do it 9/10 full campaigns I played.

I only did the Fame victories for the achievements.