Pathfinder: Kingmaker

Pathfinder: Kingmaker

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Wooden_Dragon Oct 2, 2018 @ 4:06am
The game difficulty: Vision of the studio.
Hail to the Kings and Queens!
Lately, we’ve received a lot of questions from you regarding game difficulty. Our bad – we should have realized sooner that our view on the matter may differ significantly from what some of you are used to. A lot of games tend to use the “normal difficulty” label for their casual mode which requires minimal input from the player. Knowing this, many players choose “hard” or higher by default every time they start a new game just to make their experience at least a little challenging. Well, this isn’t quite how things work in Pathfinder: Kingmaker.
We decided to be honest with our players from the start, so in our game “normal” really is what you’d expect from “normal”: a bit of challenge and a fair amount of Pathfinder experience. It is a mode that you can play on and not feel that the game is playing itself for you. Still, it is also a good choice for those getting their first taste of the game, as well as for those who are yet not familiar with the Pathfinder system but would like to dig in. The “hard” mode is literally hard – expect many tries, a lot of saving and loading, get ready to feel anger rise in your chest as your persistence is put to the test. The game will require you to think long and hard on your moves and to use potions, scrolls, spells and abilities wisely. You’ll have to learn about your foes’ weaknesses and use them. And as for the “unfair” mode – well, enough said, it IS unfair! It is for the most hardcore of gamers, for those who enjoy a real freakin’ challenge. Do not expect it to be just hard. Expect it to be soul-crushing. “Story mode” is for those who enjoy the game world and the storyline more than they do fighting, tactics and min-maxing.
So, please, do not rush to choose the hardest difficulty level right at the start. We expect you to be the wise and provident ruler of the Stolen Lands. Measure your skill, have a proper taste of the game first, and whenever you’re ready – feel free to switch to a more challenging level. Or an easier one, if that’s what rocks your boat. And if the existing difficulty levels are not enough, remember you can always tailor the rules to your individual taste in the options menu. We are also currently working on even more deep and detailed difficulty settings to make sure you can set the gameplay to your liking.
Nevertheless, we really appreciate your comments about certain unbalanced encounters. We're not planning to lower the whole difficulty level of the game, but we constantly note all your requests and are doing our best to fix all the problems and adjust the balance (some of them are already fixed - check out the Hotfix letters). Thank you!

Last edited by Wooden_Dragon; Oct 2, 2018 @ 4:08am
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Showing 226-240 of 352 comments
Zengar Oct 2, 2018 @ 9:55pm 
Originally posted by Soup&Gunpowder:
Originally posted by ♥♥♥♥♥r:
I find it sad that people expect the creatures to have the exact same stats as they have in the monster manual when, in reality, every creature would really be different and the game gives you the tools to do it because you can advance the creatures and customize them a lot by rules.
DMs tend to not do it because it's a lot of work so every Goblin is THE monster manual goblin.
Also, it's better for the game to have a difficulty that works as a video game. Raw stats would work if it was turn based, but since it's rtwp, you need to modify stats to give a propper challenge.
People act like this is a new thing, but all the old IE games did it too.

It's not a problem that the stats are different. The problem is that they just overly-inflated the stats, withour regard to how that affects balance. Read more here: https://www.reddit.com/r/Pathfinder_Kingmaker/comments/9jw7z1/enemy_difficulty_vs_enemy_stat_adjustment/

This is problematic, because of how well-tuned the Pathfinder system is around CRs and base creatures. When you add in to that all the debuffs PCs lost because they stripped parts of pathfinder out, it just amps hardness while making it less like Pathfinder. A classic way to deal with big strong things is to fly and pelt them from afar. You can't do that here.

When you are playing on tabletop, you are not getting magic items constantly and parties are not well oiled killing machines because you are roleplaying. The level of optimization you can get in a video game like this, specially with the kind of equipment included makes raw monsters a total and complete joke, because as you just said, the stats are hyper inflated, but to a point where I can crunch numbers and still have a challenge. It makes crunching and optimization worthwhile, becaue you actually need to do it to beat content fast enough. And I'm not talking about hyper optimization. I take liberties, change chars all the time, pick useless spells for the future, etc, and the game is just fine. It works, the stats provide a totally beatable challenge by using a party efectively.

Maybe the game is hard for some people. But some of you talk about the game like it's unplayable and a broken mess and it's just not true because me and many others have no issue except for bugs. So mayb, maybe, you are all just a bunch of scrubs.
You guys are always present, always crying about games while the rest of us are playing and learning them instead of wanting the game to suddenly transform into a product that you actually like.
Last edited by Zengar; Oct 2, 2018 @ 9:58pm
Zengar Oct 2, 2018 @ 9:57pm 
I mean, people always talk about the high AC, but forget about +3 2d6 one handed, simple profeciency weapons or that you can get a bow at about level 6 that does 2d6 and 2d6 acid, etc.
Sir Texas Sir Oct 2, 2018 @ 10:09pm 
I have to laugh when I read folks ♥♥♥♥♥ing about normal and they are trying to do the Stag Lord at level 2. Which means they prob don’t have 6 party members hardly any good gear and or levels. I did it at 5 (just hit it) with 6 party members and had no issues on normal settings and it kids was easy. If your struggling on your game through so like most folks in every other RPG do and go level/gear up more.
msalgado Oct 2, 2018 @ 10:09pm 
So, you just agreed with our complain that it's more like a game that is loosely based on pathfinder.

And I think you will agree that it's more "loosely" based than BGs 1 or 2 or icewind dale ever were.

As you said, those games boosted HPs moslty.. probably saves too.

BUT I remember playing the gold box Old D&D games.. Pool of Radiance, I think it was..

AND I Killed a dragon cause it did not resist a HOLD MONSTER.

Anyway, I hate that just by looking at a Troll I have almost NO WAY to know if it has STR 35 or STR 20.
We cant know if the same trolls will have +24 to hit or +10

This is pretty frustrating.
Miskatonic81 Oct 2, 2018 @ 10:32pm 
Originally posted by msalgado:
So, you just agreed with our complain that it's more like a game that is loosely based on pathfinder.

And I think you will agree that it's more "loosely" based than BGs 1 or 2 or icewind dale ever were.

As you said, those games boosted HPs moslty.. probably saves too.

BUT I remember playing the gold box Old D&D games.. Pool of Radiance, I think it was..

AND I Killed a dragon cause it did not resist a HOLD MONSTER.

Anyway, I hate that just by looking at a Troll I have almost NO WAY to know if it has STR 35 or STR 20.
We cant know if the same trolls will have +24 to hit or +10

This is pretty frustrating.

This argument is so tired. Monster stats are not biblical commandments passed down from God. They are malleable and DM will change them however they see fit for their campaign.
gusglenn71 Oct 2, 2018 @ 10:40pm 
I haven't had any huge problems with difficult fights except for a few encounters that were way above my level. My party died and then I reloaded. If I could examine enemies and see their threat level before I engage it would be great. I have also had problems when attributes of party members are damaged, sometimes by -10. It's difficult to tell how bad the damage is and restoration won't work for some reason. Lesser works but not the normal. Nothing happens when I click it. It just shows a swap ui for cure critical.
Areveas Oct 2, 2018 @ 10:41pm 
People here just respond with the more generic fanboying. "I'm playing on normal and the difficulty is fine ecks dee" and so on.

It's extremely obvious none of them are playing on Unfair. And it's extremely obvious they're either fanboys or trolls because none of them adress actual arguments thrown at them, they just make dumb comments about casuals and dumbing down games.

It's not a matter of opinion, though. The game IS entirely RNG based. All you'd have to do to disprove that statement is beat the game from start to after the attack on Oleg in one go on Unfair, no save scumming. But instead of even doing that, they're going to keep blindly defending this game and talk about how other cRPGs are too easy etc. while playing the game on normal anyway.
Krot Oct 2, 2018 @ 10:44pm 
:praisesun:

Game hasn't been out long enough for anyone to be playing on unfair imo.
Last edited by Krot; Oct 2, 2018 @ 10:45pm
altrego9920 Oct 2, 2018 @ 10:54pm 
Originally posted by Miskatonic81:
Originally posted by msalgado:
So, you just agreed with our complain that it's more like a game that is loosely based on pathfinder.

And I think you will agree that it's more "loosely" based than BGs 1 or 2 or icewind dale ever were.

As you said, those games boosted HPs moslty.. probably saves too.

BUT I remember playing the gold box Old D&D games.. Pool of Radiance, I think it was..

AND I Killed a dragon cause it did not resist a HOLD MONSTER.

Anyway, I hate that just by looking at a Troll I have almost NO WAY to know if it has STR 35 or STR 20.
We cant know if the same trolls will have +24 to hit or +10

This is pretty frustrating.

This argument is so tired. Monster stats are not biblical commandments passed down from God. They are malleable and DM will change them however they see fit for their campaign.

While you say that quite a few people believe they should be a faithful representation of what is actually written.

Lets put it this way, if you like The boat race ( a rowing boat race held yearly). and you are going to compete in it, then are told everyone gets an extra 2 people. Ok great you think. The day of the race comes around you show up with your boat and all of your team getting ready for it and people are loading powerboats into the water to race along side of you. Wouldn't you be saying WTF its no longer the same race?

This is basically what has happened to the game. Pathfinder has an extremely fervent community, and when you change stuff because of (Vision) you are going to get some pretty bad backlash, especially when you don't bother telling people before hand and quite a few do not make ANY sense when put into context of the game.

Quite a few of us understand the mechanics of the game, we have broken the numbers down and honestly, if ran in PnP this way, quite a few people would leave your table and would also let it known you are a jerk DM. Personally if one of my DM's were to run a campaign like this I would stand up, take his Dungeon master guide away from him, and smack him the back of the head with it, this would then be followed by the rest of the table doing the exact same thing.

We expected the game to be faithful to the source material, at this point they should really take the Pathfinder name off of it and market it as GenericRPG01.

The current version breaks so many interesting builds that people want to play, I mean come on why does a Kobold have 24 - 40 dex? Immersion wise that is literally bordering on the realm of gods, on what should be a critter that you walk up to and damn spit on to kill it. I have had Amiri hit a wolf for a massive crit of 70+ damage..... not only did the thing not drop it proceeded to eat her face AND take 3 more sneak attacks from my main character (when they actually hit because of bloated AC) to finally kill.

The stats break the game. Achieving 40+ AC by level 5 should be a heroic feat meaning you are a walking fortress that lower beings should not deign to attack.... ohh wait.... almost all mobs get a +35 to attack for some stupid reason..... so not only are you hit on almost every attack on a character that you went full board don't touch me tank... any character with less than 36 AC is autohit, and with inflated damage scores... ohh you had 20-30 hp? yup 1 shot.
Pink Eye Oct 2, 2018 @ 10:55pm 
Originally posted by Areveas:
People here just respond with the more generic fanboying. "I'm playing on normal and the difficulty is fine ecks dee" and so on.

It's extremely obvious none of them are playing on Unfair. And it's extremely obvious they're either fanboys or trolls because none of them adress actual arguments thrown at them, they just make dumb comments about casuals and dumbing down games.

It's not a matter of opinion, though. The game IS entirely RNG based. All you'd have to do to disprove that statement is beat the game from start to after the attack on Oleg in one go on Unfair, no save scumming. But instead of even doing that, they're going to keep blindly defending this game and talk about how other cRPGs are too easy etc. while playing the game on normal anyway.

No, Mate. Most of us have no issues with the game. I take it you probably never played Baldur's Gate 1 or even 2.

The bottom line is that most of us don't want the game to change. Maybe add an even easier difficulty or something. Also why are you playing on the hardest difficulty, then complaining that it is too hard?
Tortuosit Oct 2, 2018 @ 11:01pm 
Very interesting points made here, which I cannot know as I am not a PP TT player. To me it sounds very desirable to have this game centered around the core ruleset. I was thinking as for this game I could just search the internet, find Pathfinder resources, read about monsters and stats, but now I know it is not the case since they use their own numbers in the game. And I agree, making encounters difficult by just blowing stats feels wrong.

It's regrettable there's always people who obviously just read the OP and then write some easy agenda like "dat casual gamerz" (translates into "I'm awesome") and leave. So the tabletop players, where a lot of the criticism comes from, are the casual n00bs now. lol.
Last edited by Tortuosit; Oct 2, 2018 @ 11:06pm
msalgado Oct 2, 2018 @ 11:06pm 
Thing here that we tried to explain to Devs AND a very few players...

A Full Plate gives 9 AC

Is it the same Full plate when Kobolds have:
16 DEX = The base idea?
Dex 26?
Or
Trolls have 35 STR?

Is a Bards Performance +1 to hit the same

When a Kobold Shaman AC is 23
OR
He has Dex 30 AND WILL 35 and his AC is 33 for... unknow reasons.

So the point is THE WHOLE BALANCING HANGS on MONSTERS and NPCs following a certain Pattern!

AND this pattern is at least a MINOR resamblance to the rules.
Last edited by msalgado; Oct 2, 2018 @ 11:07pm
Areveas Oct 2, 2018 @ 11:09pm 
Originally posted by BrokenClock:
Originally posted by Areveas:

No, Mate. Most of us have no issues with the game. I take it you probably never played Baldur's Gate 1 or even 2.

The bottom line is that most of us don't want the game to change. Maybe add an even easier difficulty or something. Also why are you playing on the hardest difficulty, then complaining that it is too hard?

And see, literally exactly what I said in my comment, you responded without adressing actual arguments.

Yes, I've played BG1+2. Their difficulty settings literally just set damage to 2x. This game sets damage to 2x on top of giving enemies enough AC to the point where you need nat 20s to hit them, a huge bonus to their attacks so they can consistently hit even the highest AC frontliners, and enough saving throws that CC becomes unusable until endgame. Not comparable. This game is entirely RNG, whereas you can beat BG on Insane/Ironman fairly consistently. Hell, you can even beat BG on Insane solo.
msalgado Oct 2, 2018 @ 11:13pm 
Just to try to make it clearer....

Are kobolds dexterous?
Yes... more than the average human maybe.

ARE THEY GODLIKE CREATURES THAT MOVE LIKE THE WIND!?

No.

So they CANT have DEX 30 the same way your longsword cant be a d4 just to "balance it out".

When Devs claim that they are "Pathfinder" material... but dont follow basic stats for basic monsters, THAN...
Fells like cheating:

HERE, take this Pathfinder LongSword that is 1d8 and crit for x2 on 19/20
BUT we are making every kobold and orc have triple HP and better AC.

SO THIS IS THE PROBLEM

Gods, its not that diffucult to understand.
YOU MAY NOT AGREE
I DONT WANT TO CHANGE YOUR GAME
I JUST WANTED A DIFF SET TO RESAMBLE CORE RULES.
I JUST WANT EVERUBODY HAPPY.

Now thats better.
MosulVet Oct 2, 2018 @ 11:23pm 
And sort of related to game design in general... why does Oleg offer such a large supply of top quality equipment, including 4 (!) suits of +1 Full Plate. This seems a little... excessive for a small trading inn in the middle of no where. Doesn't seem at all necessary for an early game merchant, and an odd game design as it trivalizes equipment when you are literally still brand new.
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Date Posted: Oct 2, 2018 @ 4:06am
Posts: 352