Heart. Papers. Border.

Heart. Papers. Border.

Prothean Aug 20, 2017 @ 12:55pm
SJW Simulator 2017
What if I'm not privileged enough to afford this game? Will you give me a free copy?!!!
< >
Showing 1-15 of 70 comments
Baguette Aug 20, 2017 @ 10:00pm 
I mean I like to say games can be what they want, if you want a lead that differs from the norm then do it, if you want to do a different setting then do it. But umm..

"regardless of the inherited privileges determined by the country of your birth." privileges? Really?
"you realize your influence into actually living to see your dream come true - that of living in a world without borders!"

Living in a world without borders, sounds like a lot fun, will there be people who will take adventage of this in the game?

Also apart from exploring and writing what's the point or what do you do? Just open the borders? Sounds less like a game and more trying to push the idea of Open borders.

I mean I don't want to say that's what the game's sole intention is because they said they really wanted to make it but I'm just not sure what the point other than pushing for Open Borders, you can write blogs by clicking on hastags without any words actually being written, the trailer show literally just travelling.

Also how do you have a "2.5 people team" lol.
Last edited by Baguette; Aug 20, 2017 @ 10:06pm
Sarienn  [developer] Aug 20, 2017 @ 10:43pm 
Hey! This is an early alpha build, so fo now there are limited things to do. But we do plan a lot more features. However you are right, this game does push the idea of open borders.

We are just 2 devs but w invested our savings to a bit of music and art hence the 2.5 =)
Last edited by Sarienn; Aug 20, 2017 @ 10:43pm
Orbister Aug 21, 2017 @ 2:10am 
If you are a dumb liberal Imagine an open borders world with a global government and the president is Trump If you are alt right you are probably against open borders already but you can just imagine a global government with Obama as president. Open borders is a stupid idea. I'm sure any reasonable person in neither of those extremes wouldn't benefit from a global government either.
Námumaður Aug 21, 2017 @ 4:30am 
Originally posted by Orbister:
If you are a dumb liberal Imagine an open borders world with a global government and the president is Trump If you are alt right you are probably against open borders already but you can just imagine a global government with Obama as president. Open borders is a stupid idea. I'm sure any reasonable person in neither of those extremes wouldn't benefit from a global government either.

Open borders without equal and fair distribution of wealth, health care etc. is only problematic cause many people will migrate where the better living standard is. If people would stop caring about nation egos and start working and cooperating together you will see how unneeded those artificial lines on the map really are.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k40su7eHgIs
Sarienn  [developer] Aug 22, 2017 @ 3:47am 
As a game creator, I am happy that this is exactly the kind of conversations I wanted to kickstart. Thank you :)
Prothean Aug 22, 2017 @ 6:08am 
Originally posted by Sarienn:
As a game creator, I am happy that this is exactly the kind of conversations I wanted to kickstart. Thank you :)
Lol
Baguette Aug 22, 2017 @ 10:45am 
Originally posted by Sarienn:
As a game creator, I am happy that this is exactly the kind of conversations I wanted to kickstart. Thank you :)

Well I guess the answer of whether this game is propoganda or not is pretty clear then lol. I hope your game will simulate open borders properly then but I'm guessing not.
Tripas Aug 24, 2017 @ 4:05am 
Hard to start conversations in an enviroment where everything you don't agree with is "propaganda" or "pushing an agenda", instead of simply a creative choice to express a certain view of the world, isn't it Sarienn ;)?
Baguette Aug 24, 2017 @ 4:31am 
Originally posted by Tripas:
Hard to start conversations in an enviroment where everything you don't agree with is "propaganda" or "pushing an agenda", instead of simply a creative choice to express a certain view of the world, isn't it Sarienn ;)?

"information, especially of a biased or misleading nature, used to promote a political cause or point of view."

Creating something with the intent of trying to start a political conversation while remaining biased to oneside is Propoganda.

Originally posted by Sarienn:
As a game creator, I am happy that this is exactly the kind of conversations I wanted to kickstart. Thank you :)

Papers please isn't Political at all, it could be though if they wanted it to be, so could any game because it all can link to the real world. But as it's specifically stated here they want to start a conversation about Open Borders using a game that from all I've seen and watched does not accurately portray the result of Open Borders therefore making it Propoganda.

I was completely fine with making this game, I mean it sounds like an interesting idea, trying to change an entire worlds point of view, but just leave it at that. Leave it at being a game.

Also if you don't like peoples Opinions then you definintely can't
Originally posted by Tripas:
start conversations

Last edited by Baguette; Aug 24, 2017 @ 4:34am
Tripas Aug 24, 2017 @ 4:49am 
That's cute. So making a game that's labelled as optimistic and having a particular opinion is being "biased" to one side? Despite the fact that the dev was openly welcoming to people sharing their opinions, regardless of which side they came from? You might want to rethink your definition of what being biased is.

And while you're at it, also rethink what it means to "be a political game". Because Papers Please IS a political game. Always was, always will be.

And so are games like Bioshock, Fallout, GTA, Deus Ex and other games that people seem to enjoy just fine without throwing a fit about it.

And while we're at it, don't forget to add any game where you're asked to save your friends/soldiers/tribe from the Evil Bad Guys who want to turn them into slaves. Because that's a game that's saying "slavery is bad" and THAT is also political.

Because being "political" doesn't equate to "it's saying something I don't agree with".

Also, I never said I don't like people's opinions. And neither did the dev, but you sure seem to get defensive over hearing things you don't like so...

Originally posted by 0Bennyman:
if you don't like peoples Opinions then you definintely can't
Originally posted by Tripas:
start conversations

Can you TASTE the irony in this situation? Because I certainly can :smug:.
Last edited by Tripas; Aug 24, 2017 @ 4:50am
Baguette Aug 24, 2017 @ 5:18am 
Originally posted by Tripas:
That's cute. So making a game that's labelled as optimistic and having a particular opinion is being "biased" to one side? Despite the fact that the dev was openly welcoming to people sharing their opinions, regardless of which side they came from? You might want to rethink your definition of what being biased is.

And while you're at it, also rethink what it means to "be a political game". Because Papers Please IS a political game. Always was, always will be.

And so are games like Bioshock, Fallout, GTA, Deus Ex and other games that people seem to enjoy just fine without throwing a fit about it.

And while we're at it, don't forget to add any game where you're asked to save your friends/soldiers/tribe from the Evil Bad Guys who want to turn them into slaves. Because that's a game that's saying "slavery is bad" and THAT is also political.

Because being "political" doesn't equate to "it's saying something I don't agree with".

Also, I never said I don't like people's opinions. And neither did the dev, but you sure seem to get defensive over hearing things you don't like so...

Originally posted by 0Bennyman:
if you don't like peoples Opinions then you definintely can't

Can you TASTE the irony in this situation? Because I certainly can :smug:.

You can't make a game, product or Stance and make it political without properly assessing both sides. Papers Please Is? I've not heard the devs before state we should change borders or anything but If you can link me I'll stand corrected. And it assess both sides, the fact people dislike it because of how intrusive it is but it still DOES work because you are supposed to prevent stuff happening. So it's not biased.

GTA is a parody, Fallout? Bioshock? Deus Ex (I mean, do we have robotic racism lol?) Either way none of these are biased to one single argument and not assessing both sides. Deus Ex from what I recall had a problem with Robotics going wrong and killing people so there is the argument that people who don't like them have a fair point so it's not Biased.

Are they showing Slavery in a true light? If Yes then it's not Propoganda.

"Because being "political" doesn't equate to "it's saying something I don't agree with"." I never said any of that so stop trying to put words in my mouth lol

Never said you don't like peoples opinions?



Originally posted by Tripas:
Hard to start conversations in an enviroment where everything you don't agree with is "propaganda" or "pushing an agenda", instead of simply a creative choice to express a certain view of the world, isn't it Sarienn ;)?


So someone having an opinion that this is propoganda because the dev wants to be political and the game only shows the very best outcome if we were all best buddies and no one wanted war or death. Isn't allowed but, you're completely fine with opinions :happiness:


Also I can definitely Taste the Irony, tastes good lmfao. And if you're stating that it's ironic because the dev has an opinion on Open Borders, it's not an opinion if you're trying to push it politically lol, at that point you're trying to push it as fact.



The conversation is being had right now, only it's not a very productive one because the conversation starter is biased.
Tripas Aug 24, 2017 @ 5:35am 
Originally posted by 0Bennyman:
You can't make a game, product or Stance and make it political without properly assessing both sides. Papers Please Is? I've not heard the devs before state we should change borders or anything but If you can link me I'll stand corrected.

[...]

GTA is a parody, Fallout? Bioshock? Deus Ex (I mean, do we have robotic racism lol?)

OK, it's settled, you have no clue what makes a given work political or not. Alright, thanks for clearing that up.

And after that "do we have robotic racism lol" bit, I'm also adding "allegory" to the list of terms you don't know anything about.

Originally posted by 0Bennyman:
Either way none of these are biased to one single argument and not assessing both sides. Deus Ex from what I recall had a problem with Robotics going wrong and killing people so there is the argument that people who don't like them have a fair point so it's not Biased.

OK so, according to your "logic" if you're not "biased" that automatically means you're not political?

You know you're not doing any favors to yourself with these, right?

Originally posted by 0Bennyman:
Are they showing Slavery in a true light? If Yes then it's not Propoganda.

And what is "a true light"? Because your definition of it will always be your opinion of it.

Originally posted by 0Bennyman:
"Because being "political" doesn't equate to "it's saying something I don't agree with"." I never said any of that so stop trying to put words in my mouth lol

For someone who keeps putting words in other people's mouths, you seem to be pretty defensive about it.

And it's not my fault if I can read you like an open book ;).

Originally posted by 0Bennyman:
Never said you don't like peoples opinions?

Originally posted by Tripas:
Hard to start conversations in an enviroment where everything you don't agree with is "propaganda" or "pushing an agenda", instead of simply a creative choice to express a certain view of the world, isn't it Sarienn ;)?

So someone having an opinion that this is propoganda because the dev wants to be political and the game only shows the very best outcome if we were all best buddies and no one wanted war or death. Isn't allowed but, you're completely fine with opinions :happiness:

Going back to "putting words in other people's mouths", when exactly did I say that you weren't allowed to voice your opinion?

And since you seem to have trouble figuring out how these things work, let me spell it out for you: just because you can voice your opinion, doesn't mean others can't question it. That's not being against opinions or saying you're not allowed to have them, that's just how they work.

I'd like to think you're going to ponder over this, but we both know you won't.

Originally posted by 0Bennyman:
The conversation is being had right now, only it's not a very productive one because the conversation starter is biased.

I can think of other reasons as to why it's not very productive, but hey... :smug:
Baguette Aug 24, 2017 @ 5:44am 
Originally posted by Tripas:
Originally posted by 0Bennyman:
You can't make a game, product or Stance and make it political without properly assessing both sides. Papers Please Is? I've not heard the devs before state we should change borders or anything but If you can link me I'll stand corrected.

[...]

GTA is a parody, Fallout? Bioshock? Deus Ex (I mean, do we have robotic racism lol?)

OK, it's settled, you have no clue what makes a given work political or not. Alright, thanks for clearing that up.

And after that "do we have robotic racism lol" bit, I'm also adding "allegory" to the list of terms you don't know anything about.

Originally posted by 0Bennyman:
Either way none of these are biased to one single argument and not assessing both sides. Deus Ex from what I recall had a problem with Robotics going wrong and killing people so there is the argument that people who don't like them have a fair point so it's not Biased.

OK so, according to your "logic" if you're not "biased" that automatically means you're not political?

You know you're not doing any favors to yourself with these, right?

Originally posted by 0Bennyman:
Are they showing Slavery in a true light? If Yes then it's not Propoganda.

And what is "a true light"? Because your definition of it will always be your opinion of it.

Originally posted by 0Bennyman:
"Because being "political" doesn't equate to "it's saying something I don't agree with"." I never said any of that so stop trying to put words in my mouth lol

For someone who keeps putting words in other people's mouths, you seem to be pretty defensive about it.

And it's not my fault if I can read you like an open book ;).

Originally posted by 0Bennyman:
Never said you don't like peoples opinions?



So someone having an opinion that this is propoganda because the dev wants to be political and the game only shows the very best outcome if we were all best buddies and no one wanted war or death. Isn't allowed but, you're completely fine with opinions :happiness:

Going back to "putting words in other people's mouths", when exactly did I say that you weren't allowed to voice your opinion?

And since you seem to have trouble figuring out how these things work, let me spell it out for you: just because you can voice your opinion, doesn't mean others can't question it. That's not being against opinions or saying you're not allowed to have them, that's just how they work.

I'd like to think you're going to ponder over this, but we both know you won't.

Originally posted by 0Bennyman:
The conversation is being had right now, only it's not a very productive one because the conversation starter is biased.

I can think of other reasons as to why it's not very productive, but hey... :smug:







Mate this whole thing is about propoganda anyway lmao, that's my point and you're just twisting it. I meant Papers Please isn't Political in the sense that the Developer isn't actively trying to push a specific idea. (And like I said, feel free to correct me :) )

Let's get off Political topic anyway considering you are focusing on that point because you can't answer the Propoganda part lol.

"For someone who keeps putting words in other people's mouths, you seem to be pretty defensive about it.

And it's not my fault if I can read you like an open book ;)."




Thanks for contributing absolutely nothing and just trying to seem cool because you can't debate at all!

"Going back to "putting words in other people's mouths", when exactly did I say that you weren't allowed to voice your opinion?"

Let's umm, take a look here. 'Isn't allowed but, you're completely fine with opinions :happiness:' Hmm, don't think I said that. Was merely showing you saying my Opinion was Invalid because it involved propoganda. Quote "Hard to start conversations in an enviroment where everything you don't agree with is "propaganda"", this shows you didn't like my Opinion because of what it contained and therefore was invalid.

"And since you seem to have trouble figuring out how these things work, let me spell it out for you: just because you can voice your opinion, doesn't mean others can't question it. That's not being against opinions or saying you're not allowed to have them, that's just how they work."

Nah I don't think this is a question :happiness: "Hard to start conversations in an enviroment where everything you don't agree with is "propaganda" "

Oh please tell me why this game isn't Propoganda and I'm wrong, that'll be pretty productive, I mean if I'm completely wrong about this game being Biased please let me know, that'll REALLY get this conversation started. Only, I'm pretty sure the game is Biased and you can't prove it to be not Biased lol.
Last edited by Baguette; Aug 24, 2017 @ 5:46am
Tripas Aug 24, 2017 @ 6:13am 
Originally posted by 0Bennyman:
Mate this whole thing is about propoganda anyway lmao, that's my point and you're just twisting it. I meant Papers Please isn't Political in the sense that the Developer isn't actively trying to push a specific idea. (And like I said, feel free to correct me :) )

[...]

Let's get off Political topic anyway considering you are focusing on that point because you can't answer the Propoganda part lol.

Oh, so now you're not feeling confortable and you want to switch to something else? Sorry dearie, that's not how conversations work. I know you keep showing time and time again that you don't know how these things are supposed to go, but you don't get to just decide to move in away from something you can't argue your way out of like this is a conversation tree on some RPG.

Seriously, you want to discuss if the game is or isn't propaganda without knowing what makes a game political? What's next, you want to build a house by starting with the roof too?

Originally posted by 0Bennyman:
Thanks for contributing absolutely nothing and just trying to seem cool because you can't debate at all!

That coming from someone who has yet to know how debates work in the first place really carries a lot of weight :denied:.

Originally posted by 0Bennyman:
Let's umm, take a look here. 'Isn't allowed but, you're completely fine with opinions :happiness:' Hmm, don't think I said that. Was merely showing you saying my Opinion was Invalid because it involved propoganda. Quote "Hard to start conversations in an enviroment where everything you don't agree with is "propaganda"", this shows you didn't like my Opinion because of what it contained and therefore was invalid.

No, I just said that your opinion wasn't conductive to a conversation, not that it was invalid.

Sweet Jesus, you're just embarassing yourself at this point.

Originally posted by 0Bennyman:
Oh please tell me why this game isn't Propoganda and I'm wrong, that'll be pretty productive, I mean if I'm completely wrong about this game being Biased please let me know, that'll REALLY get this conversation started. Only, I'm pretty sure the game is Biased and you can't prove it to be not Biased lol.

Dude, you don't even know or care about what makes a game political and you claim to want to discuss when a game is or isn't progaganda, i.e. something that completely political in nature?

Sure, why not? And then maybe we could discuss the role of religion in people's lives, but without talking about religion. Or talk about the works of Shakespeare but without talking about literature.

Or maybe you could also learn how to spell "propAganda" properly already.
Baguette Aug 24, 2017 @ 6:23am 
Originally posted by Tripas:
Originally posted by 0Bennyman:
Mate this whole thing is about propoganda anyway lmao, that's my point and you're just twisting it. I meant Papers Please isn't Political in the sense that the Developer isn't actively trying to push a specific idea. (And like I said, feel free to correct me :) )

[...]

Let's get off Political topic anyway considering you are focusing on that point because you can't answer the Propoganda part lol.

Oh, so now you're not feeling confortable and you want to switch to something else? Sorry dearie, that's not how conversations work. I know you keep showing time and time again that you don't know how these things are supposed to go, but you don't get to just decide to move in away from something you can't argue your way out of like this is a conversation tree on some RPG.

Seriously, you want to discuss if the game is or isn't propaganda without knowing what makes a game political? What's next, you want to build a house by starting with the roof too?

Originally posted by 0Bennyman:
Thanks for contributing absolutely nothing and just trying to seem cool because you can't debate at all!

That coming from someone who has yet to know how debates work in the first place really carries a lot of weight :denied:.

Originally posted by 0Bennyman:
Let's umm, take a look here. 'Isn't allowed but, you're completely fine with opinions :happiness:' Hmm, don't think I said that. Was merely showing you saying my Opinion was Invalid because it involved propoganda. Quote "Hard to start conversations in an enviroment where everything you don't agree with is "propaganda"", this shows you didn't like my Opinion because of what it contained and therefore was invalid.

No, I just said that your opinion wasn't conductive to a conversation, not that it was invalid.

Sweet Jesus, you're just embarassing yourself at this point.

Originally posted by 0Bennyman:
Oh please tell me why this game isn't Propoganda and I'm wrong, that'll be pretty productive, I mean if I'm completely wrong about this game being Biased please let me know, that'll REALLY get this conversation started. Only, I'm pretty sure the game is Biased and you can't prove it to be not Biased lol.

Dude, you don't even know or care about what makes a game political and you claim to want to discuss when a game is or isn't progaganda, i.e. something that completely political in nature?

Sure, why not? And then maybe we could discuss the role of religion in people's lives, but without talking about religion. Or talk about the works of Shakespeare but without talking about literature.

Or maybe you could also learn how to spell "propAganda" properly already.


Pretty sure I started with Propoganda and I'm pretty sure that's the main argument. But sure, now just argue that one single point you have XD. Great work mate, you're really showing you know how to debate here.

"That coming from someone who has yet to know how debates work in the first place really carries a lot of weight ."

Says the person who can't answer the main point of this whole conversation XD.

"No, I just said that your opinion wasn't conductive to a conversation, not that it was invalid."

So it can't use it in a conversation but it's completely valid point, but I'm not allowed to use it in a conversation XD. I think the fact you won't answer the main point of why you think it's not valid isn't really helping your stance.

Propoganda is Political Bias. That's what it is and what i've been saying. Perhaps if you could read or debate instead of focusing on 1 minor detail that I said slightly incorrectly lol.

"I can't defeat, therefore I'm gonna attack your spelling of one single word hahah" Two can play Bro " i.e. something that completely political in nature?" Learn how sentences work and then you can talk.


Answer the main point of Propoganda and why you think it's not Propoganda and just me disagreeing, please, make this whole thing so much easier and just answer the question lol. I know SJW's don't like answering question and just grab on every tiny detail that fits their purpose but come on. Make it easy.
Last edited by Baguette; Aug 24, 2017 @ 6:23am
< >
Showing 1-15 of 70 comments
Per page: 1530 50

Date Posted: Aug 20, 2017 @ 12:55pm
Posts: 70