Total War: WARHAMMER II

Total War: WARHAMMER II

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2gud Jun 10 @ 7:09am
Redshell Spyware
Thank you, CA. Your response to the consumer concern involving Red Shell was timely and effective. The removal of Red Shell is appreciated, as such this thread is now redundant.
Last edited by 2gud; Jun 14 @ 9:34am
Originally posted by CA Ella:
For clarification:

Red Shell is a program we previously used to measure the effectiveness of our advertising – it’s not spyware.

It’s a marketing attribution tool that helps companies determine which of their adverts are most effective. It does this in a similar way to other analytics tools by using cookies to generate a unique token from device information, and comparing that with data taken from marketing campaigns and game activations. In this way, the companies that use it are able to see which adverts are more effective. You can find out more about Red Shell here: https://redshell.io/home

However, while Red Shell was only used to measure the effectiveness of our advertising, we saw that players were clearly concerned about it and that it would be difficult for us to entirely reassure everyone. As such, the implementation of Red Shell was removed from all Total War games that previously used it.
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Showing 181-195 of 461 comments
Originally posted by panakon:
Originally posted by Shut 'Em Down:

Now THAT is hostility. Again comparing things that are not related. RedShell doesn't mine these things, so I'm not sure why you're even trying to use them to browbeat me.


I am not trying to be hostile. I called you foolish kid because you post things unrelated to this topic trolling people and trying to convince them that their concerns do not matter. Also, you behave like you have some proof of what data redshell is collecting. I myself do not have such a proof and I don't trust what they claim. I try to minimize the personal data that companies have access to and have complete control over it. So, for me, the only logical thing to do when I find out that a game is spying on me, is to uninstall it until the problem is resolved.

I've been on topic more or less this entire time. I've used hyperbole to try and highlight the ridiculousness of the outrage, but I have stuck to the issue at hand. As for "unrelated" things being brought up.......

Originally posted by Monochromatic Spider:
Those people who don't have anything to hide, please install an unsecured webcam in your bedroom. No?

I have nothing to hide either, but the law is the law, I am supposed to have certain rights, and if CA wants to sell products on the market I'm a part of then they have to follow the law and afford me those rights.

Might as well argue that it's no big deal if you buy minced beef and instead get 15-20% horsemeat, because it's not like you can taste it. Doesn't matter, because not selling what you're advertising is still fraud.

In this particular case, installing spyware through the installer is fundamentally not okay, not even if it is used "benevolently" and won't collect really personal data. And not only is this bad but it would also appear to be flat out illegal under current EU rules, punishable by some rather hefty fines.

Can we stick to what RedShell does please? All this garbage about webcams, minced beef, etc. is entirely unrelated to what we are talking about.
Last edited by Shut 'Em Down; Jun 13 @ 3:33am
The zinger is right here if you didn't actually read the counterpoints:

Originally posted by Monochromatic Spider:
I have nothing to hide either, but the law is the law, I am supposed to have certain rights, and if CA wants to sell products on the market I'm a part of then they have to follow the law and afford me those rights.
Kaaz Jun 13 @ 5:47am 
its the middle of E3
Kaaz Jun 13 @ 7:11am 
You expect legal to answer random forum stuff? Or would it go through the social media folk who would be promoing all the e3 stuff
Well, I guess I'll just uninstall like I did Civ 6. Just saying something similar here to what i said on the Firaxis forum . I can understand why CA would want to have a relationship with Red Shell spy ware but, they should also understand that many of us don't . Even when you opt out of their collection of information there is no way to remove their programing form your computer and still have the various games function.
Very disapointed in C.A.
You can report them to your national Data Protection Authorities, if you think CA breaks the law with this. These organization can then escalate the issue, if necessary.
It's becoming very apparent which companies have consulted the issue with legal counsel and those who have yet not.

Ultimately, in parts of the world this is perfectly legitimate - specifically areas with little privacy regulation. However, installing such a software without 'expressed consent' is a blatant violation of the GDPR (and other versions of privacy regulation in some countries prior to the GDPR introduction). So the following rights regarding privacy protection will only really apply to certain individuals dependent on your country of residence.

The Red Shell software will track, monitor and report on activity performed while in the game. The company will also provide access to Red Shell regarding data collected through other means, such as Social Networking Sites (commonly referred to as "SNS" in a privacy policy) and other websites such as YouTube where their adverts may be placed.

Developers may claim that no "personal data" is collected solely through your use of the game and no alternative method, because such data is anonymous. In part this is true, but what then happens is that data harvested through other means (such as Facebook, for example), will contain "personal data", and the level of that data is rather intrusive.

Using the samples of data harvested from various sources, this would then run in an algorythm and from there these companies will then be able to match corresponding information and build a psychological profile of each individual (in instances where enough data has been collected). Such profiles will take into an account things such as:
- what draws your attention on social media (anything you follow, like or comment on);
- what type of content you engage in,
- your location
- your age
- your gendre
- your name
- your profession (if you have it listed on social media)
The list goes on and on, but it is all subject to where your information may be elsewhere on the internet.

This raw data is then used to generate new data (your personal psych-profile) and it is with this information that the company will then use dermagraphics for analytical, marketing and research purposes - that is said with the benefit of the doubt that none of this data is being sold to any other third party.

The latter would be considered "legitimate interests" by the company, which is allowed subject to:
- It is not likely that the individual will object,
- It is not likely that the individual is unaware.
Of course such conditions are objective, so it is therefore irrelevant whether it is 1 individual or 100'000 people.

In terms of the "opt-out" option, it is good that it is there (as required by law anyway), but it is entirely the wrong way around (as outlined by regulation). The Red Shell software that is in part with the game should have a voluntary "opt-in" feature, and by default submit no individual to it's use.

So there you go, there are the "facts" you were looking to establish. You're not required to cease business relations with Red Shell, but at the very least you need to return the right to individuals if they so wish to voluntary provide information to assist you for marketing and research purposes.

Remember Devs, you are selling a licence to play a game. Marketing and research is wholly a business responsibility; and not everyone will share the view that they paid you to analyse their online behaviour. If you wish to do so, you must first get consent by appropriate means. :)
^

Finally some who knows what they're talking about. Metadata is NOT anonymous and is NOT 100% secure. Any company or organisation that says otherwise is outright lying and should rightfully be viewed with suspicion.
CA Ella  [developer] Jun 14 @ 7:41am 
Red Shell is a program we use to measure the effectiveness of our advertising. It’s not spyware.

It’s a marketing attribution tool. It helps us determine which of our adverts are most effective. It does this in a similar way to other analytics tools by using cookies to generate a unique token from device information, and comparing that with data taken from our marketing campaigns and game activations. In this way we can see which adverts are more effective. You can find out more about it here: https://redshell.io/home

If you like, you can opt-out of web-based and cookie-based tracking by managing your cookie preferences: https://redshell.io/optout

Whilst Red Shell is only used to measure the effectiveness of our advertising, we can see that players are clearly concerned about it and it will be difficult for us to entirely reassure every player. So, from the next update we will remove the implementation of Red Shell from those Total War games that use it.
Originally posted by CA Ella:
Red Shell is a program we use to measure the effectiveness of our advertising. It’s not spyware.

It’s a marketing attribution tool. It helps us determine which of our adverts are most effective. It does this in a similar way to other analytics tools by using cookies to generate a unique token from device information, and comparing that with data taken from our marketing campaigns and game activations. In this way we can see which adverts are more effective. You can find out more about it here: https://redshell.io/home

If you like, you can opt-out of web-based and cookie-based tracking by managing your cookie preferences: https://redshell.io/optout

Whilst Red Shell is only used to measure the effectiveness of our advertising, we can see that players are clearly concerned about it and it will be difficult for us to entirely reassure every player. So, from the next update we will remove the implementation of Red Shell from those Total War games that use it.

Sorry you folks had to deal with all this diatribe. Paranoia is one hell of a drug.
2gud Jun 14 @ 8:24am 
I like how people who are concerned get what they asked for and ♥♥♥♥ing morons still think they're "paranoid". You know what, how's this sound? If you don't care about your privacy, and THE LITERAL ♥♥♥♥ING LAW, tell me your DoB? Your Address? Maybe your real name? How's that sound

Originally posted by Shut 'Em Down:
Originally posted by CA Ella:
Red Shell is a program we use to measure the effectiveness of our advertising. It’s not spyware.

It’s a marketing attribution tool. It helps us determine which of our adverts are most effective. It does this in a similar way to other analytics tools by using cookies to generate a unique token from device information, and comparing that with data taken from our marketing campaigns and game activations. In this way we can see which adverts are more effective. You can find out more about it here: https://redshell.io/home

If you like, you can opt-out of web-based and cookie-based tracking by managing your cookie preferences: https://redshell.io/optout

Whilst Red Shell is only used to measure the effectiveness of our advertising, we can see that players are clearly concerned about it and it will be difficult for us to entirely reassure every player. So, from the next update we will remove the implementation of Red Shell from those Total War games that use it.

Sorry you folks had to deal with all this diatribe. Paranoia is one hell of a drug.
I like how people who are concerned get what they asked for and ♥♥♥♥ing morons still think they're "paranoid". You know what, how's this sound? If you don't care about your privacy, and THE LITERAL ♥♥♥♥ING LAW, tell me your DoB? Your Address? Maybe your real name? How's that sound
Originally posted by 2gud:
I like how people who are concerned get what they asked for and ♥♥♥♥ing morons still think they're "paranoid". You know what, how's this sound? If you don't care about your privacy, and THE LITERAL ♥♥♥♥ING LAW, tell me your DoB? Your Address? Maybe your real name? How's that sound


I like how people who are concerned get what they asked for and ♥♥♥♥ing morons still think they're "paranoid". You know what, how's this sound? If you don't care about your privacy, and THE LITERAL ♥♥♥♥ING LAW, tell me your DoB? Your Address? Maybe your real name? How's that sound

You posted that twice.
It blows my mind how everyone cares about spyware from videogames but when it comes to google always listening in on your mic even when fully closed out no one seems to really care.
Decent response from CA though, that's appreciated. I dunno if they'll still fall foul of the EU data law, but that's not such a concern for us I guess- either they'll be prosecuted or not: not my circus, not my monkeys.

Customer service wise I think they've done the right thing: explained what Redshell was and why it was there, acknowledged the concerns and removed the software with a quick, free update. No complaints from me.

Edit: Confirmed, the update removing it has already been implemented. If you were worried about Redshell, relax, it's gone.
Last edited by SpanielBear; Jun 14 @ 8:46am
crawlers Jun 14 @ 8:45am 
We do not have the power to defeat google and rely too much upon their stuff to stop using it. That is not the case with redshell. Perhaps later if the movement gains more power it can take on google.
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Date Posted: Jun 10 @ 7:09am
Posts: 461