Holdfast: Nations At War

Holdfast: Nations At War

LamaLokatorCZ Dec 31, 2017 @ 4:35am
rifleman, complaint
Rifleman is a very unfair class, everyone plays only a rifleman. I have not yet experienced the rifleman's free position. It's always 10/10, and they look like the game. the first few hats have a score of 10: 0, 22: 0, they simply have no deaths and ten times more than other players. This game is very uncomfortable with this class.

For the time being, I and my friends are postponing the game until it changes somewhat.
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Showing 1-15 of 32 comments
AGS | Refleax  [developer] Dec 31, 2017 @ 8:19am 
Hey! Thanks for the feedback. We'll be increasing the time it takes to reload a rifle to balance the class out. Both teams both equally have the same number of rifleman slots available so neither is put at a disadvantage.
Shepuz Dec 31, 2017 @ 11:09am 
just increasing the reload time won't be enough mate, as the class is right now, all riflemen are just going to sit in a bush or under a tree and keep getting "free" kills through out the match because they can accuratelly shoot anyone from 150+m away, increasing the reload time won't do jack s*it to balance it out, where the muskets, even when crouched, can't hit the side of a barn even if they were crouching inside of it. As of now, out of all my kills maybe 1% have been done firing a musket while standing and even then it was pure luck. Unfortunatelly I do not have the solution how to properly balance the class, but I can sure as hell say that as things are right now, just a simple "we gonna add a little bit to the reload time" ain't gonna cut it mate.
Originally posted by Shepuz:
just increasing the reload time won't be enough mate, as the class is right now, all riflemen are just going to sit in a bush or under a tree and keep getting "free" kills through out the match because they can accuratelly shoot anyone from 150+m away, increasing the reload time won't do jack s*it to balance it out, where the muskets, even when crouched, can't hit the side of a barn even if they were crouching inside of it. As of now, out of all my kills maybe 1% have been done firing a musket while standing and even then it was pure luck. Unfortunatelly I do not have the solution how to properly balance the class, but I can sure as hell say that as things are right now, just a simple "we gonna add a little bit to the reload time" ain't gonna cut it mate.

agreed, all it's going to do is add yet another layer of inconvenience to a shooter thats based around inconveniencing its players with absurdly crippled weapon play (but it makes the roleplayers happy i guess)

at some point the devs need to decide what game they are making. are they making a competitive shooter or a roleplaying game -- trying to please both crowds at once will just piss both off. at the moment they seem to be valuing the input of people who roleplay over people who are actually good at the game.

my suggested solution is to buff the other weapons so they're somewhat on par with the rifleman, or add other mechanics to the game to increase the skill cap (you have to hold your breath to get an accurate shot, etc). i don't really get the realism argument. it's like nerfing the queen in chess because the queen never fought in wars. it's a GAME
Last edited by Cocyx The Gay Skeleton; Jan 1, 2018 @ 3:03am
johncage Jan 1, 2018 @ 6:49pm 
that's literally what their purpose was, so you're complaining that a class is repesented too accurately in a historical game.

also, the "it's a game" argument is aids. it's a complete non sequitur. i could say, we should remove bayonets because muh "it's a game" and it carries the exact same weight.

it's working fine as is. stop crying because you couldn't get that class because of potato pc and potato connection.

lol at people trying desperately to make everything completely "balanced" and equal. i kill tons of riflemen as a line infatry or guard. the key is to get close, which isn't hard. in short, git gut
Originally posted by johncage:
that's literally what their purpose was, so you're complaining that a class is repesented too accurately in a historical game.

also, the "it's a game" argument is aids. it's a complete non sequitur. i could say, we should remove bayonets because muh "it's a game" and it carries the exact same weight.

if bayonets were arbitrary or OP or whatever then ♥♥♥♥ yeah you should remove or alter it. the point of saying "its a game" is because people are saying ♥♥♥♥ isn't "historically accurate" in a game where you have a ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ health bar representing your vitality. do you not realize how gamified this ♥♥♥♥ is already or do you get such a hard-on from pretending to be a badass colonial soldier that you forget you're looking at pixels on a screen? you'd have to be a crazy person to think this game even REMOTELY reflects anything from reality
Last edited by Cocyx The Gay Skeleton; Jan 2, 2018 @ 12:00pm
personally i think each match should last 72 hours and you should have a chance to die from dysentery before it ends
Bozemoto Jan 3, 2018 @ 2:31pm 
I think the rifles are great, people are just too competetive and want to have the highest kill count. You have to realize that this is a team game not a singleplayer game with allies. Things will balance out more when cavalry comes in, though people will complain that they're too op then too. As the defence against cavalry is teamwork, and people are not willing to do that. Their precious kill count is more important.
Originally posted by Bozemoto:
I think the rifles are great, people are just too competetive and want to have the highest kill count. You have to realize that this is a team game not a singleplayer game with allies. Things will balance out more when cavalry comes in, though people will complain that they're too op then too. As the defence against cavalry is teamwork, and people are not willing to do that. Their precious kill count is more important.

literally every modern shooter is team-based these days and people still care about KDR in them so guess you don't like shooters
Bozemoto Jan 4, 2018 @ 3:22am 
Originally posted by Cocyx The Gay Skeleton:
literally every modern shooter is team-based these days and people still care about KDR in them so guess you don't like shooters

Most pieces in chess are better than pawns, does that mean that the game needs to be rebalanced? If you're playing as an individual then it might be frustrating being a pawn, but as a team you're playing as all the pieces.
Originally posted by Bozemoto:
Originally posted by Cocyx The Gay Skeleton:
literally every modern shooter is team-based these days and people still care about KDR in them so guess you don't like shooters

Most pieces in chess are better than pawns, does that mean that the game needs to be rebalanced? If you're playing as an individual then it might be frustrating being a pawn, but as a team you're playing as all the pieces.

maybe if the game actually played like a large scale chess board. it doesn't really, it's just a lot of random push and pull chokepoints. it's not like all 75 people on the team are in a hivemind and pulling off strats (unless you count the roleplayers, who get blown away pretty much immediately), things just kind of naturally happen as people react to situations. "oh there's guys there, i better run over there" & "oh there's no guys over there, bet i could flank over there" are the only two strats
Last edited by Cocyx The Gay Skeleton; Jan 4, 2018 @ 9:38am
Bozemoto Jan 4, 2018 @ 9:58am 
Originally posted by Cocyx The Gay Skeleton:
maybe if the game actually played like a large scale chess board. it doesn't really, it's just a lot of random push and pull chokepoints. it's not like all 75 people on the team are in a hivemind and pulling off strats (unless you count the roleplayers, who get blown away pretty much immediately), things just kind of naturally happen as people react to situations. "oh there's guys there, i better run over there" & "oh there's no guys over there, bet i could flank over there" are the only two strats

It's called teamwork, if you don't want teamwork to be a requirement for success then that's fine. I'm happy with rifles being better, as tanks and helicopters are better in more games set in more recent times. Think my preference is for that both sides are equally balanced on the scale of a team, rather than all roles or classes be balanced. There are plenty of games that do that already and you're welcome to play those instead.

I grant you that having the rifles being better lends itself more to organized play, and perhaps the solution is to remove riflemen from the pub games if people are so frustrated by it. Problem is that cavalry and other classes will be equally unbalanced going forward so perhaps pub games should only have linemen, as to avoid upsetting anyone.
Originally posted by Bozemoto:
Originally posted by Cocyx The Gay Skeleton:
maybe if the game actually played like a large scale chess board. it doesn't really, it's just a lot of random push and pull chokepoints. it's not like all 75 people on the team are in a hivemind and pulling off strats (unless you count the roleplayers, who get blown away pretty much immediately), things just kind of naturally happen as people react to situations. "oh there's guys there, i better run over there" & "oh there's no guys over there, bet i could flank over there" are the only two strats

It's called teamwork, if you don't want teamwork to be a requirement for success then that's fine. I'm happy with rifles being better, as tanks and helicopters are better in more games set in more recent times. Think my preference is for that both sides are equally balanced on the scale of a team, rather than all roles or classes be balanced. There are plenty of games that do that already and you're welcome to play those instead.

I grant you that having the rifles being better lends itself more to organized play, and perhaps the solution is to remove riflemen from the pub games if people are so frustrated by it. Problem is that cavalry and other classes will be equally unbalanced going forward so perhaps pub games should only have linemen, as to avoid upsetting anyone.

if you've ever played any ♥♥♥♥♥♥ competitive teamwork based game, you'd know immediately that it's hard to organize a team of 10 people compared to 5, let alone ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ 75 people. the higher the player count is, the more teamwork goes out the window and people just start rolling with the punches instead of executing any tangible strategy. there's too much chaos to argue that its "just like chess" or whatever. it's not. it's team deathmatch and there's a dude with a bigger gun.
Bozemoto Jan 4, 2018 @ 1:00pm 
I don't think this game is for you.
The comparison to chess was that not all pieces are made equal but the each side is balanced.
Equally, rifles being better doesn't mean the game is unbalanced.
Obviously you haven't done any linebattles, try searching for it. It's quite well organized.
Originally posted by Bozemoto:
I don't think this game is for you.
The comparison to chess was that not all pieces are made equal but the each side is balanced.
Equally, rifles being better doesn't mean the game is unbalanced.
Obviously you haven't done any linebattles, try searching for it. It's quite well organized.

that's just roleplaying my dude lol

i'm talking about actual video game mechanics where stategy evolves from trial and error. do people here realize most people who play this game aren't roleplaying
Last edited by Cocyx The Gay Skeleton; Jan 4, 2018 @ 1:15pm
Bozemoto Jan 4, 2018 @ 2:04pm 
Do you think tanks should be removed from battlefield? They are objectively better than running around with a machine gun?

Also noone plays as a character during linebattles, so not roleplaying. Can call it convoluted if you want but it's not RP.
Last edited by Bozemoto; Jan 4, 2018 @ 2:09pm
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Date Posted: Dec 31, 2017 @ 4:35am
Posts: 32