Removal of Redshell in the Submarine Update!

[Bojangle]

Hey Trailmakers!

Some of you may have seen talk about an analytics tool known as Redshell that a variety of games were using, ourselves included.

First things first - With the Submarine Update, our Redshell implementation has been removed.

For clarification of why we used it and what it did - Redshell allowed us to link people who saw adverts for Trailmakers who then became owners of Trailmakers, which meant we could better focus our marketing efforts in getting the game out there to more people, which means more Trailmakers for everybody!

In short the way it worked would be that a user would see an ad for Trailmakers on Facebook, as an example, they would click through to the store page and they would then be assigned a unique ID which is a one-way hash of the IP. If you already own the game nothing happens.

If that person then buys the game and plays it, the initial load will check the ID against the one previously stored (basically what a cookie does that every website asks you to accept or decline when visiting) and it then gets added to our campaign data. We see zero personal information in this process, we only see that that x amount of people have purchased the game after clicking the link.

Analytic tools like this are incredibly useful for all game developers as a way of seeing what works and what doesn't, in turn increasing your chances of getting your game out there into the hands of more players, which essentially means a longer life for the game you enjoy.

We should have made our usage of Redshell for this purpose more transparent and if in the future we use similar analytical tools we'll be sure to be as clear as possible along with offering an opt in process.

Thanks for your understanding!

- Flashbulb Games

[Dev]

I'm glad you removed it but this is still a disgusting breach of trust.

[Sert]

As long as it didn't use any personal information it was fine before. Thank you for thinking about your consumer and if I see the opt in process I'll make sure to do it.

[Sert]

Originally posted by Devil Man X:

I'm glad you removed it but this is still a disgusting breach of trust.

Really, a "disgusting breach of trust"? They clearly said no personal information was used. Read the topic...

[Dev]

Originally posted by Amaroo:

Originally posted by Devil Man X:

I'm glad you removed it but this is still a disgusting breach of trust.

Really, a "disgusting breach of trust"? They clearly said no personal information was used. Read the topic...

Yes... because no one has ever lied, especially when it is in their own best interests. We have no way of knowing what information was being stolen.

I do find it interesting that you would believe and defend a company that admits they installed spyware on their consumer's systems without permission.

[Dev]

@bojangle - I love trailmakers and was actively trying to convince my friends to join me in purchasing it. What disappointed me though was finding out that you had installed this spyware on my computer in the first place. Make no mistake that is what you did to everyone who bought your game. We have no way of knowing what information this software steals or shares with you or any other parties which is why it is such a breach of trust.

If red shell is such a safe thing, why didn't you disclose that this software was being used? As far as I'm aware in some countries this is not only frouned upon but illegal.

If red shell is not taking any personal information and is not running except when the game is then how does it know what sites a person visits and share that info with you? Again, in some countries this is illegal.

I understand why this information is useful to you and your team. Being able to see what marketing is working is a great way to tell where you should spend your advertising budget but installing spyware is not a smart, safe or consumer friendly way to do so.

In the end I paid for this game with my hard earned money and you rewarded me by installing spyware on my pc and stealing my information (no matter how minimal it was). You are not entitled to know what adds I view, what sites I visit nor what brought me to purchasing your game. You are only entitled to the money I give you if I actually decide to purchase your game.

I can only hope that moronic ideals like this lead to legal repurcussions and laws against this type of abuse.

[Atoms]

Refunds incoming!

[kn00tcn]

wow... people bashing devs for a very obvious use case, rather than going up to redshell themselves

the game dev isnt doing anything wrong, they are looking for relevant numbers, but they dont write their own analytics code, they dont know what the analytics provider does at all times

[Dev]

Originally posted by kn00tcn:

wow... people bashing devs for a very obvious use case, rather than going up to redshell themselves

the game dev isnt doing anything wrong, they are looking for relevant numbers, but they dont write their own analytics code, they dont know what the analytics provider does at all times

The problem isn't that they want analytics it's that they are secretly taking information while installing a tracking software. Nowhere on the store page does it say I am buying spyware when I buy this game. It doesn't present you with an opt in or out of the spyware and we have no idea what kind of information is being tracked. You might be okay with someone breaking into your house if all they steal is a spoon but I would rather not have someone break into my house at all.

In case you're not aware this is illegal in some countries so this is not as simple as it might seem.

[Aco]

I hate to admit it but Devil Man X has a point.

Thanks for removing this ♥♥♥♥. It leaves
a rather unpleasant aftertaste, though.

[jarge2]

My question at this point would be: If Redshell has been removed, what was it replaced with?

[DANCE ALL DAY]

Please read Devil's reviews. He literally just posts and reviews games for attention. 95% negative reviews with 1100 hours in Terraria, lol. Clearly no brain. If anyone did their research before posting, they would realise that it was infact RED SHELL and NOT the dev performing cookie gathering. WELCOME TO THE INTERNET. The dev has made it very clear that red shell has been removed, yet he refuses to accept this as a fact.

[Dev]

Originally posted by THE SHOVLA:

Please read Devil's reviews. He literally just posts and reviews games for attention. 95% negative reviews with 1100 hours in Terraria, lol. Clearly no brain. If anyone did their research before posting, they would realise that it was infact RED SHELL and NOT the dev performing cookie gathering. WELCOME TO THE INTERNET. The dev has made it very clear that red shell has been removed, yet he refuses to accept this as a fact.

Since you need the gift of half a brain let me share. Red shell does not function without the DLL installed along with the game. So it is "literally" a partnership between redshell and the game's developers. Insulting me can't save you from a simple google search.

P.S. My review has pointed out that red shell was removed from trailmakers since the day it was removed. Nothing I've said has been inaccurate.

[DANCE ALL DAY]

Originally posted by Devil Man X:

Originally posted by THE SHOVLA:

Please read Devil's reviews. He literally just posts and reviews games for attention. 95% negative reviews with 1100 hours in Terraria, lol. Clearly no brain. If anyone did their research before posting, they would realise that it was infact RED SHELL and NOT the dev performing cookie gathering. WELCOME TO THE INTERNET. The dev has made it very clear that red shell has been removed, yet he refuses to accept this as a fact.

Since you need the gift of half a brain let me share. Red shell does not function without the DLL installed along with the game. So it is "literally" a partnership between redshell and the game's developers. Insulting me can't save you from a simple google search.

P.S. My review has pointed out that red shell was removed from trailmakers since the day it was removed. Nothing I've said has been inaccurate.

"Redshell collects this information when people visit youtube, facebook and other sites long before someone buys a game containing the redshell sdk. Which means it is collecting this info OUTSIDE of said game." - zero brain, 1100 hour terraria player, with 95% negative reviews, owner of 8 redshell games (all no longer have red shell), never even knew it was there before visiting reddit, desperate for attention and still ♥♥♥♥♥ing about things that dont exist

"When a person plays a game containing the redshell spyware that information is collected and sent to either the developers/redshell themselves or both. So again we are not talking about a game tracking what I do WITHIN said game but in fact this info is collected outside of that game and before it is ever even purchased." - zero brain, 1100 hour terraria player, with 95% negative reviews, owner of 8 redshell games (all no longer have red shell), never even knew it was there before visiting reddit, desperate for attention and still ♥♥♥♥♥ing about things that dont exist

"NOTHING I'VE SAID HAS BEEN INACCURATE" - zero brain, 1100 hour terraria player, with 95% negative reviews, owner of 8 redshell games (all no longer have red shell), never even knew it was there before visiting reddit, desperate for attention and still ♥♥♥♥♥ing about things that dont exist

[Dev]

Originally posted by THE SHOVLA:

Originally posted by Devil Man X:

Since you need the gift of half a brain let me share. Red shell does not function without the DLL installed along with the game. So it is "literally" a partnership between redshell and the game's developers. Insulting me can't save you from a simple google search.

P.S. My review has pointed out that red shell was removed from trailmakers since the day it was removed. Nothing I've said has been inaccurate.

"Redshell collects this information when people visit youtube, facebook and other sites long before someone buys a game containing the redshell sdk. Which means it is collecting this info OUTSIDE of said game." - zero brain, 1100 hour terraria player, with 95% negative reviews, owner of 8 redshell games (all no longer have red shell), never even knew it was there before visiting reddit, desperate for attention and still ♥♥♥♥♥ing about things that dont exist

"When a person plays a game containing the redshell spyware that information is collected and sent to either the developers/redshell themselves or both. So again we are not talking about a game tracking what I do WITHIN said game but in fact this info is collected outside of that game and before it is ever even purchased." - zero brain, 1100 hour terraria player, with 95% negative reviews, owner of 8 redshell games (all no longer have red shell), never even knew it was there before visiting reddit, desperate for attention and still ♥♥♥♥♥ing about things that dont exist

"NOTHING I'VE SAID HAS BEEN INACCURATE" - zero brain, 1100 hour terraria player, with 95% negative reviews, owner of 8 redshell games (all no longer have red shell), never even knew it was there before visiting reddit, desperate for attention and still ♥♥♥♥♥ing about things that dont exist

You do realize that everything you quoted from me is accurate. Redshell captures information from cookies which is taking place outside of any game installing redshell. Redshell then sends that information when you run a game containing redshell. I don't know why you're obsessed with my play time in terraria or continue to complain about my reviews. This has nothing to do with redshell.

If you could refute anything I've said with actual facts you would have. Resorting to insults is stupid and childish especially when the best insult you have is that I've played a game a lot. A game that happens to be one of the most popular games on steam.

[Bojangle]

We're locking this thread as this constant back and forth isn't beneficial to anybody. We've made our statement in regards to our past Redshell usage, it's subsequent removal and our promise and comittment to being as transparant as can be if we decide to use any such analytic tools at any point in the future.

If you have any genuine questions or concerns regarding this, you're more than welcome to make a thread here on the Steam Forums, or get in touch at [e-mail]