Sonic Mania

Sonic Mania

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Sonic Mania > General Discussions > Topic Details
Thyago Laguna Jul 18, 2018 @ 7:15pm
Game's running slow
Ever since I installed the DLC the game has been running slow. It would always run smooth before, but now it just takes 14 seconds in real life for 10 secons in the game. I can't figure out why. My pc runs Overwatch smoothty. I also finnished Sonic Mania a couple of times before the DLC and had no problem whatsoever. Am I the only one facing such issue?
Last edited by Thyago Laguna; Jul 18, 2018 @ 7:15pm
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Showing 1-15 of 24 comments
Musashi Jul 19, 2018 @ 1:30am 
My game runs slow whenever I enter the Replays menu in time attack mode, and the time attack level select too for some reason, and it continues even after leaving both. I’m not sure if what you’re describing is the exact same issue I’m having though...
Last edited by Musashi; Jul 19, 2018 @ 1:31am
Originally posted by Thyago Laguna:
Ever since I installed the DLC the game has been running slow. It would always run smooth before, but now it just takes 14 seconds in real life for 10 secons in the game. I can't figure out why. My pc runs Overwatch smoothty. I also finnished Sonic Mania a couple of times before the DLC and had no problem whatsoever. Am I the only one facing such issue?
I would point the finger squarely Denuvo. Because it uses virtualization, it's essentially running Sonic Mania inside a virtual machine. That's why people hate Denuvo so much, and the more intense the security features are implemented, the greater the reduction in performance. I promise you the PS4 and Switch versions don't have this issue.
DDDanger Jul 19, 2018 @ 4:56am 
Originally posted by hypercybermegatron:
I would point the finger squarely Denuvo. Because it uses virtualization, it's essentially running Sonic Mania inside a virtual machine.

If that were true in the way you imply, shouldn't the OP have trouble in all parts of the game, and not just 2 specific menus.

I am also against Denuvo, but this false finger-pointing, and other stuff like hyperbole, has to stop.
Originally posted by DDDanger:
Originally posted by hypercybermegatron:
I would point the finger squarely Denuvo. Because it uses virtualization, it's essentially running Sonic Mania inside a virtual machine.

If that were true in the way you imply, shouldn't the OP have trouble in all parts of the game, and not just 2 specific menus.

I am also against Denuvo, but this false finger-pointing, and other stuff like hyperbole, has to stop.
Not neccisarily. It depends on how it's implemented.

I feel as though I'm justified in making this assessment. If I am wrong in my speculations I will eat humble pie, however if I am correct I don't expect anyone to congratulate me for being right.

Further reading: https://www.kotaku.com.au/2017/06/pirates-say-rimes-drm-slows-down-the-game-but-denuvo-denies-it/
KayJay Jul 19, 2018 @ 5:12am 
Originally posted by hypercybermegatron:
Originally posted by Thyago Laguna:
Ever since I installed the DLC the game has been running slow. It would always run smooth before, but now it just takes 14 seconds in real life for 10 secons in the game. I can't figure out why. My pc runs Overwatch smoothty. I also finnished Sonic Mania a couple of times before the DLC and had no problem whatsoever. Am I the only one facing such issue?

I would point the finger squarely Denuvo. Because it uses virtualization, it's essentially running Sonic Mania inside a virtual machine. That's why people hate Denuvo so much, and the more intense the security features are implemented, the greater the reduction in performance. I promise you the PS4 and Switch versions don't have this issue.
The whole point of Denuvo is to not have an impact on the gameplay as an anti-tamper solution, regardless of stuff on-screen. If it does then it is implemented wrong and needs to be fixed. You know, like every other optimization tweak in the history of video games?

Denuvo does not use the GPU at all, which you should be well aware of is the primary factor causing frame render spikes, ergo lag, in video games.

Only time Denuvo would cause a lag spike is if the game already saw full CPU utilization and Denuvo were added into the mix and caused a slowdown in processing caused by the fact that the CPU were already maxed out. A maxed out CPU, however, is almost never seen in video games except for a few simulator-heavy games.

It also bares to mention that as long as Denuvo is run by non-critical functions (as it should be) called by low-prioritized threads (as those functions should be), then every other thread and workload (aka more critical) will cut in front of Denuvo in the queue to the CPU.

This isn't really only true for Denuvo, but for all middleware or functions used in games. For example, Far Cry 5 have an analytics/diagnostics thread taking up >as much CPU time as possible< all the time. Nobody is batting an eye about that just because it isn't called "Denuvo".

Similarly, the way some games spin the Steam API callback thread (as FFXV did, which caused frame render time spikes for quite a few players) doesn't get criticized either.


Here is a reality check for you:
Sonic Mania vs. Sonic CD Remastered.
Same Engine, same humans behind the developing.
One has Denuvo, the other not.

http://www.bilder-upload.eu/upload/8c84f2-1516389934.png

http://www.bilder-upload.eu/upload/75ef5c-1516389948.png

Denuvo Mania even used 1% LESS GPU capacity than Sonic CD Remastered.
Shouldn't you complain on the Denuvo-free Sonic CD boards then?
Last edited by KayJay; Jul 19, 2018 @ 5:13am
Originally posted by KayJay:
Originally posted by hypercybermegatron:

I would point the finger squarely Denuvo. Because it uses virtualization, it's essentially running Sonic Mania inside a virtual machine. That's why people hate Denuvo so much, and the more intense the security features are implemented, the greater the reduction in performance. I promise you the PS4 and Switch versions don't have this issue.
The whole point of Denuvo is to not have an impact on the gameplay as an anti-tamper solution, regardless of stuff on-screen. If it does then it is implemented wrong and needs to be fixed. You know, like every other optimization tweak in the history of video games?

Denuvo does not use the GPU at all, which you should be well aware of is the primary factor causing frame render spikes, ergo lag, in video games.

Only time Denuvo would cause a lag spike is if the game already saw full CPU utilization and Denuvo were added into the mix and caused a slowdown in processing caused by the fact that the CPU were already maxed out. A maxed out CPU, however, is almost never seen in video games except for a few simulator-heavy games.

It also bares to mention that as long as Denuvo is run by non-critical functions (as it should be) called by low-prioritized threads (as those functions should be), then every other thread and workload (aka more critical) will cut in front of Denuvo in the queue to the CPU.

This isn't really only true for Denuvo, but for all middleware or functions used in games. For example, Far Cry 5 have an analytics/diagnostics thread taking up >as much CPU time as possible< all the time. Nobody is batting an eye about that just because it isn't called "Denuvo".

Similarly, the way some games spin the Steam API callback thread (as FFXV did, which caused frame render time spikes for quite a few players) doesn't get criticized either.


Here is a reality check for you:
Sonic Mania vs. Sonic CD Remastered.
Same Engine, same humans behind the developing.
One has Denuvo, the other not.

http://www.bilder-upload.eu/upload/8c84f2-1516389934.png

http://www.bilder-upload.eu/upload/75ef5c-1516389948.png

Denuvo Mania even used 1% LESS GPU capacity than Sonic CD Remastered.
Shouldn't you complain on the Denuvo-free Sonic CD boards then?
Interesting info there.

However I disagree with the claim that the whole point of Denuvo is not to impact performance. Assasin's Creed Origin's is testament to the fact that Denuvo comes first, performance last.

Using Virtualization comes with an inherent performance hit that is inescapable. The performance hit can be minimized however this reduces the effectiveness of the DRM software.

As for your screenshots. I appreciate the spirit of your comparison there, however that's an apples to oranges comparison. An apples to apples comparison would be SM with vs. SM without Denuvo.
Last edited by hypercybermegatron; Jul 19, 2018 @ 5:42am
@KayJay. UPDATE. Apparently, this latest version of Sonic Mania had every single feature of Denuvo enabled and it STILL didn't stop the game from being cracked on day one. I'm even more confident the performance issues are Denuvo related if that's the case.
https://twitter.com/PTKickass/status/1019669668250947585

If you follow the links you'll eventually come across this:

Voksi FAQ:

Q: How does Denovo works?

A: It doesn't.
KayJay Jul 19, 2018 @ 9:37am 
Originally posted by hypercybermegatron:
@KayJay. UPDATE. Apparently, this latest version of Sonic Mania had every single feature of Denuvo enabled and it STILL didn't stop the game from being cracked on day one. I'm even more confident the performance issues are Denuvo related if that's the case.
Yea no, actually Sonic Mania Plus GPU capacity even decreased more compared to the old build.
It uses slightly more GPU memory but that's fully understandable since Plus has more assets now.

I get 1% GPU capacity with the same GPU, same settings and same resolution as the screenshots from the old build, (old build was at 2% GPU capacity and Sonic CD which has no Denuvo is at 3% GPU capacity):

http://www.bilder-upload.eu/upload/750a36-1532017875.jpg

http://www.bilder-upload.eu/upload/17fe9c-1532017889.jpg

http://www.bilder-upload.eu/upload/cd2785-1532017893.jpg

Complete proof that current Denuvo version did not impact performance compared to the previous Denuvo build.

Thanks.
Last edited by KayJay; Jul 19, 2018 @ 9:41am
Miraglyth Jul 19, 2018 @ 9:50am 
Originally posted by KayJay:
I get 1% GPU capacity with the same GPU, same settings and same resolution as the screenshots from the old build, (old build was at 2% GPU capacity and Sonic CD which has no Denuvo is at 3% GPU capacity)

Do those numbers never change during gameplay...?
KayJay Jul 19, 2018 @ 9:53am 
Originally posted by Miraglyth:
Originally posted by KayJay:
I get 1% GPU capacity with the same GPU, same settings and same resolution as the screenshots from the old build, (old build was at 2% GPU capacity and Sonic CD which has no Denuvo is at 3% GPU capacity)

Do those numbers never change during gameplay...?
Not really in the GPU segment, and barely in the CPU segment.
That's why I took several screenshots, to show the numbers barely change.
Miraglyth Jul 19, 2018 @ 10:02am 
Originally posted by KayJay:
Originally posted by Miraglyth:
Do those numbers never change during gameplay...?

Not really in the GPU segment, and barely in the CPU segment.
That's why I took several screenshots, to show the numbers barely change.

It's hardly rigorous data then.
KayJay Jul 19, 2018 @ 10:04am 
Originally posted by Miraglyth:
Originally posted by KayJay:

Not really in the GPU segment, and barely in the CPU segment.
That's why I took several screenshots, to show the numbers barely change.

It's hardly rigorous data then.
It clearly shows the decrease(!) of GPU capacity and no increase besides from GPU memory due to the assets. It's a complete proof.

Thanks.
Last edited by KayJay; Jul 19, 2018 @ 10:05am
Deef Jul 19, 2018 @ 10:13am 
Also noticing slowdown. Not as badly as the OP, but about every 1-5 minutes there's a brief but significant drop in FPS and game speed. It's just enough to mess up a special stage run if it happens at the wrong moment.

Pretty annoying.
KayJay Jul 19, 2018 @ 10:20am 
Originally posted by Deef:
Also noticing slowdown. Not as badly as the OP, but about every 1-5 minutes there's a brief but significant drop in FPS and game speed. It's just enough to mess up a special stage run if it happens at the wrong moment.

Pretty annoying.
Go into exclusive Fullscreen because borderless fullscreen applications/games can trigger the famous DWM stutter (desktop V-Sync not syncing with actual Monitor refresh rate).
Miraglyth Jul 19, 2018 @ 10:24am 
Originally posted by KayJay:
Originally posted by Miraglyth:
It's hardly rigorous data then.

It clearly shows the decrease(!) of GPU capacity

Yes but it's a relatively small number of snapshots instead of an aggregation of longer periods of gameplay ideally in game portions of similar complexity (which is debatably tricky between two different games).

I'm interested in the multiple reports that the slowdowns and stuttering s are happening in certain situations consistently. It sounds like there are triggered activities that are slowing the game down. Note these don't have to involve Denuvo.
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Sonic Mania > General Discussions > Topic Details
Date Posted: Jul 18, 2018 @ 7:15pm
Posts: 24