Warhammer: Vermintide 2

Warhammer: Vermintide 2

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Haggis Apr 9 @ 6:12am
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Get a new marketing team.
A month ago there were numerous threads touching on the absolutely terrible marketing of the upcoming expansion. Rather than being given anything concrete, we were given a 'teaser' that seemed to many to indicate that there would be new enemies; something which was quickly rectified with an official announcement that there would be no new enemies.

From a marketing perspective this was terrible. As the 'potentially-interested' we were given nothing to get excited for, there were no details revealed what-so-ever of what would be in the game; and we were given something to feel negative about. I would call this creating 'anti-hype'.

Those few people who tried to stick up for Fatshark resorted to saying that this was either just to remind us that the game was on the horizon (which still does not excuse the lack of any information besides what will not be in the game), or else that it was the start of the marketing, and that over the next few weeks we would be given more details to get us all excited.

Clearly the latter has not happened.

Vermintide has a special place in my heart, and its one of those few games that I've pumped a disturbing amount of hours in to, and despite having a few warts I believe it is a masterpiece. I want it to succeed. The big issue for many people has been lack of content, or the slow release of new content. As we are now finally getting what is presumably a big amount of content (seeing as they called it an 'expansion' as opposed to 'DLC'), this seems like the perfect time to hype the game to get maximum interest, to secure maximum sales, and to bring back the many players who had been waiting for something new. Yet nothing has been done.

I could do better marketing. Here are some things you could do to generate interest that require minimal effort:
-Concept art of new weapons. Followed by screenshots of how they look in game. Followed by short videos of the animations.
-Concept art of the new levels. Screenshots of the new levels.
-Mini-trailer showing the game-play off in all of its glory. Have 30 seconds - 1 minute of the characters hacking their way through the new missions/game mode or using the new weapons.
Drop these on Steam/Twitter/Reddit at weekly intervals at around 3 months before release (to ensure that what you are showing is unlikely to change), and people will keep coming back to check, and to discuss.
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Showing 1-15 of 102 comments
Adelion Apr 9 @ 6:36am 
Or: Just drop the expansion without any further information so the community can judge for itself. It seems like an entertaining thought to me.

Working on it, until they feel it is polished enough and randomly dropping it together with an announcement. And then watch as the community will interact with the new content and find out that it is awesome.

That actually really sounds entertaining. Also, the main money-power comes from the Steam announcement as most people simply don't follow specific games news outlet. So this will be most likely couplet with an announcement on the Steam Store Front.
Zaru Apr 9 @ 6:40am 
I fully agree that the lead-up to chaos wastes was completely wasted (no pun intended) until recently. They've put out some related lore posts in the last few weeks that explain why we're going there, but that's not going to answer the burning questions all the potential buyers have, either.

There is still some time, Fatshark. You need to CONVINCE people to get this DLC, and you need to set the right EXPECTATIONS so people don't angrily post negative steam reviews because they thought it would be something else.

(On the contrary, the latest lore post describes the places we're going to as filled with "rivers of nurglings", which would set expectations for a new enemy type if it wasn't for the "no new enemies at release" disclaimer hidden in some thread replies)
Adelion Apr 9 @ 6:49am 
Originally posted by Zaru:

(On the contrary, the latest lore post describes the places we're going to as filled with "rivers of nurglings", which would set expectations for a new enemy type if it wasn't for the "no new enemies at release" disclaimer hidden in some thread replies)

Are you sure on this? The latest lore post does refer "Rivers of Nurglings". But it talks about them in the context of the "Realm of Chaos" and according to this Wiki entry (which might not be reliable):

https://warhammerfantasy.fandom.com/wiki/Realm_of_Chaos

the Realm of Chaos should NOT be confused with the Chaos Wastes.

Originally posted by Zaru:

There is still some time, Fatshark. You need to CONVINCE people to get this DLC

There is actually a very easy way to circumvent this issue and leave the whole "marketing" to word of mouth (outside of an expected mentioning on the Steam Store Front).
[Fatshark] Hedge  [developer] Apr 9 @ 6:57am 
It's a tricky one really. When we do go hype players tell us not to. When we don't they tell us to hype it. For Vermintide we just plan on working on content, doing focused testing with a solid and varied set of players and iterating on that content and then do a short pre-release campaign before dropping the content to the wider community.

You might not like that, but it's how things will be for now :) in the case or Chaos Wastes you might be pleasantly surprised as to why we don't need to push too hard. Time will tell though.

Originally posted by Haggis:
I could do better marketing

https://jobs.fatsharkgames.com/jobs/1105508-senior-marketing-manager-performance-online
Sekzon Apr 9 @ 7:07am 
Originally posted by Fatshark Hedge:
in the case or Chaos Wastes you might be pleasantly surprised as to why we don't need to push too hard. Time will tell though.

mixed feelings about this sentence tbh
Haggis Apr 9 @ 7:14am 
Originally posted by Fatshark Hedge:
It's a tricky one really. When we do go hype players tell us not to. When we don't they tell us to hype it.
Thank you for the reply, but I think you have misunderstood what the actual gripes with the previous 'hype' was. It was not that people did not want the game to be marketed or hyped up (which has universally been understood to increase sales); it was a sense of betrayal at Fatshark not following through with their promises as they pertained to servers, versus mode, content drop, etc. , or else hyping things that were not going to come out any time soon

What I want to see is you marketing and hyping up what you ARE going to release soon. No one will be upset if you hype what you are actually giving to us in the near future. That will garner interested and excitement.

Just don't tell us that you are going to give us one thing and then either not do it, or tell us it is going to take years before it is released. That is what people were upset with before. We expect and desire you to hype what is actually coming out soon.
We don't need hype. I'd be happy with a few solid details (weapons, gameplay twitch stream...etc) a few days before launch, so I know what is on offer.

Ambiguous announcements months ahead of time just create a mass of speculation in the community that set-up unrealistic expectations.
Apr 9 @ 7:23am 
My life is ruined because my hype. Marketing was invented to be able to sell sand castles in the sky, it's not Fatshark's fault, it's capitalism's fault.
Zaru Apr 9 @ 7:25am 
Originally posted by Haggis:
Originally posted by Fatshark Hedge:
It's a tricky one really. When we do go hype players tell us not to. When we don't they tell us to hype it.
Thank you for the reply, but I think you have misunderstood what the actual gripes with the previous 'hype' was. It was not that people did not want the game to be marketed or hyped up (which has universally been understood to increase sales); it was a sense of betrayal at Fatshark not following through with their promises as they pertained to servers, versus mode, content drop, etc. , or else hyping things that were not going to come out any time soon

What I want to see is you marketing and hyping up what you ARE going to release soon. No one will be upset if you hype what you are actually giving to us in the near future. That will garner interested and excitement.

Just don't tell us that you are going to give us one thing and then either not do it, or tell us it is going to take years before it is released. That is what people were upset with before. We expect and desire you to hype what is actually coming out soon.
Well put.

Of course people will always be a bit upset about delays, but that's easier to swallow if you know there will be something worth waiting for.
FS revealed one of the new weapon months ago. We're in the release month, surely the other new weapons won't fundamentally change at this point. You can tease them.
The maps(?) will be finalized at this point. You can tease them.

Hedge, you know you don't have to convince ME that Chaos Wastes is going to be worth the wait. But the playerbase that DOESN'T follow basically every official post related to this game will need convincing, and I need people to play with!
Adelion Apr 9 @ 7:28am 
Originally posted by Sekzon:
Originally posted by Fatshark Hedge:
in the case or Chaos Wastes you might be pleasantly surprised as to why we don't need to push too hard. Time will tell though.

mixed feelings about this sentence tbh

Why? It just adds up to an ever-growing suspicion. A good one.

Originally posted by Sticky Mick:
a mass of speculation in the community that set-up unrealistic expectations.

Only the community can and should be blamed for this. The community should only relate to what is said and not to what is not said. And if nothing is said then nothing is said. And that is okay too.
Fluffeh Apr 9 @ 7:48am 
Most times when Fatshark says something about what they will do, it turns out to either be an exaggeration or flatly incorrect. Communication is not easy, and with how inept Fatshark has repeatedly proven to be at it I'd say it a pretty solid choice to just stay silent. Less damage done that way.
Not saying the Sharks are perfect or anything like that.. but, I sort of enjoy not having every dlc data-mined/revealed/dissected to the Warp and back.
It's nice seeing it all for the first time on launch day.

I've grown to really dislike most games approach to DLCs these days.
"Hey look at all this cool stuff! Aren't you excited!? Great! Now you just have to wait 2-4 weeks to play it."

I do wish the Sharks were a bit better at announcing and keeping to release dates though.

Originally posted by Sekzon:
Originally posted by Fatshark Hedge:
in the case or Chaos Wastes you might be pleasantly surprised as to why we don't need to push too hard. Time will tell though.

mixed feelings about this sentence tbh



i have no idea what to think either.
if its like WOM then we won't be pleasantly surprised thats for sure.

edit: what I mean is WOM was one mission, please dont release one mission as DLC.

Last edited by 𝓚ℒ𝔅.; Apr 9 @ 7:54am
Originally posted by Sekzon:
Originally posted by Fatshark Hedge:
in the case or Chaos Wastes you might be pleasantly surprised as to why we don't need to push too hard. Time will tell though.

mixed feelings about this sentence tbh
Same here. I really hope Fatshark didn't get too creative on the wrong end and is about to release Weaves 2.0.

As far as hype is concerned, I think a core problem with their marketing is that they set wrong expectations. Be that extremely early announcements followed by putting a project on the backburner for years to come or in the case of Chaos Wastes the poor choice of the name.

Really the only thing I expected to be cast in stone just by the name of the DLC since its announcement have been Demons as a new enemy type. It's a very straight forward expectation the name will induce with anyone who knows a little Warhammer lore. Therefore your announcement the DLC will not feature new enemy types (upon its release) has been a major disappointment. This could have been entirely avoided with a different name for the DLC.
Haggis Apr 9 @ 8:12am 
Originally posted by Wundsaltz:

As far as hype is concerned, I think a core problem with their marketing is that they set wrong expectations. Be that extremely early announcements followed by putting a project on the backburner for years to come or in the case of Chaos Wastes the poor choice of the name.
Well said. You sum it up very well.

As a community we were never upset with Fatshark for marketing or 'hyping' their game. In fact many of us (well, me) still on occasion watch those amazing trailers you put out before the release of the core game. They were brilliant, and the remake with models was great too.

We were upset with the 'hype' in the past because we either expected something different (we wanted more of the core game, we got weaves) or else we expected it to release relatively soon (the whole timeline fiasco, which I know you have apologised for and that is fine; I just want to point out that it was the lack of follow-through on your own deadlines that caused people to get upset, not the actual marketing). If you wait until Versus mode is nearly ready, and then tell us all about it and hype it; people will get excited. If you hype it up and then say it is not coming out for years; people will be upset.

I think most people will agree that you want to start marketing an upcoming release somewhere between 3 and 1 month before it actually comes out. Prior to that a lot will be subject to change, or else there will not be much to show off. Once we get into that 'soon to be released' time though; we expect the game to be marketed. People need to know it is coming out if they are going to buy it. No one will be upset if you market your game and give us details now, and for the sake of your own sales (and me having people to play with!) you should be doing it.
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Date Posted: Apr 9 @ 6:12am
Posts: 102