Tank Warfare: Tunisia 1943

Tank Warfare: Tunisia 1943

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Red Squirrel Jan 6, 2018 @ 9:22am
Tank sim idea
I remember Andrey once saying about Tunisia 1943 that the key philosophy behind the series was that each campaign was selected in order to showcase a particular tank, be it the Churchill or the M-10 etc, and it is easy to see what a fantastic idea this is.

Now imagine if they added in their previous work on tank simulations (SABOW and Steel Fury) and took this tank showcase concept even further, imagine a DLC module that accompanies each campaign that features the 'star' tank in a proper simulation, with a mini campaign based upon a small part of the main campaign included.

Now from a business perspective something like this would make a lot of sense, much of the work for this theoretical tank sim DLC is already done, the maps, the assets, the research etc is all there, they only need to construct a mini campaign based around a section of the main campaign and of course add the details and mechanics that will make it a proper tank sim, ie tank interiors (no small task admittedly) and a tank sim UI, which is already in existence.

This would bring a whole new demographic to this franchise as well as introducing strategy fans to the world of realistic tank sims, I believe this would be a very successful and popular innovation.
Last edited by Red Squirrel; Jan 6, 2018 @ 9:27am
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Showing 1-11 of 11 comments
babushka Jan 6, 2018 @ 12:08pm 
I really like your idea and I think there should be more tank sims.
andrey12345 v2.0  [developer] Jan 6, 2018 @ 3:22pm 
Originally posted by Red Squirrel:
Now imagine if they added in their previous work on tank simulations (SABOW and Steel Fury) and took this tank showcase concept even further, imagine a DLC module that accompanies each campaign that features the 'star' tank in a proper simulation, with a mini campaign based upon a small part of the main campaign included.
There are several problems here.
The first and most basic where to take cockpits, at least one.

The second problem is that tank sim is based on wargame, as practice has shown, this is not an advantage, it's a drawback. Since the players in the tanksims need a little different gameplay (more clear tanks not tactics), and all these operations and tactical delights are interfering.

Originally posted by Red Squirrel:
Now from a business perspective something like this would make a lot of sense, much of the work for this theoretical tank sim DLC is already done, the maps, the assets, the research etc is all there, they only need to construct a mini campaign based around a section of the main campaign and of course add the details and mechanics that will make it a proper tank sim, ie tank interiors (no small task admittedly) and a tank sim UI, which is already in existence.
This is a bad business prospect, at first there was a lot of negative feedback on this game, that "there is exactly the same thing as in the Mius-Front," although the difference in content is quite substantial. And you propose to make a game that repeats the existing game by 99% - guaranteed bad reviews.

Second, tank simulators are sold much worse than wargames, they already have an smaller audience. Why spend a few years creating a tank simulator (this almost with a 100% guarantee will kill Graviteam as a company), if we can spend them on wargames.
Red Squirrel Jan 7, 2018 @ 1:18am 
Originally posted by andrey12345 v2.0:
The first and most basic where to take cockpits, at least one.
Well, yes I can see that finding a tank in original condition that is identical to those involved in the operation depicted would be a problem. How about this for an idea, in UK is Bovington Tank Museum, theyhave many tanks, I also know that they are always interested in partnerships to promote the museum and the story of tanks, what if you guys made a small simulator based upon tanks that are in the museum? These tanks all have a well documented story and so it would be simple to take an adventure from the tanks history and recreate it, and of course the interiors are the actual interiors of the actual tank you are recreating. You could make the official simulations for their most loved tanks. :steamhappy:

Originally posted by andrey12345 v2.0:
This is a bad business prospect, at first there was a lot of negative feedback on this game, that "there is exactly the same thing as in the Mius-Front," although the difference in content is quite substantial. And you propose to make a game that repeats the existing game by 99% - guaranteed bad reviews.

Second, tank simulators are sold much worse than wargames, they already have an smaller audience. Why spend a few years creating a tank simulator (this almost with a 100% guarantee will kill Graviteam as a company), if we can spend them on wargames.

It is very sad that the tanks sims don't do better, personally I always found your them too tricky, I love your strategy games and after a struggle I learned how to play them and I enjoy them more than any other strategy series, but for some reason I cannot find comfort with the tank sims, it is a shame because I know I would enjoy them if I could only understand them, Steel Fury with STA mod in particular drives me crazy, it is clearly a wonderful piece of software from heaven, but I just can't get my head around it and I imagine it is the same for some other players too, what the answer is I don't know. :steamsad:
andrey12345 v2.0  [developer] Jan 7, 2018 @ 6:41am 
Originally posted by Red Squirrel:
Well, yes I can see that finding a tank in original condition that is identical to those involved in the operation depicted would be a problem. How about this for an idea, in UK is Bovington Tank Museum, theyhave many tanks, I also know that they are always interested in partnerships to promote the museum and the story of tanks, what if you guys made a small simulator based upon tanks that are in the museum? These tanks all have a well documented story and so it would be simple to take an adventure from the tanks history and recreate it, and of course the interiors are the actual interiors of the actual tank you are recreating. You could make the official simulations for their most loved tanks. :steamhappy:
I do not think that they make the 3d models of cockpits at the modern level. Or do you offer each player a cockpit of a real tank to send? :steammocking:


Originally posted by Red Squirrel:
It is very sad that the tanks sims don't do better, personally I always found your them too tricky, I love your strategy games and after a struggle I learned how to play them and I enjoy them more than any other strategy series, but for some reason I cannot find comfort with the tank sims, it is a shame because I know I would enjoy them if I could only understand them, Steel Fury with STA mod in particular drives me crazy, it is clearly a wonderful piece of software from heaven, but I just can't get my head around it and I imagine it is the same for some other players too, what the answer is I don't know. :steamsad:

SF was not based on wargame, but was clear tanksim. By modern standards, of course not very hardcore, but it may be event better.
Red Squirrel Jan 7, 2018 @ 6:59am 
Originally posted by andrey12345 v2.0:
I do not think that they make the 3d models of cockpits at the modern level. Or do you offer each player a cockpit of a real tank to send? :steammocking:
You could take a working holiday and visit the tank museum, I think you would enjoy it, here is the largest collection of tanks in the world, and of course you can study the tanks up close, take photographs, accurate measurements etc.

I am sure if you contact the museum and explain that you have an idea to recreate a simulation of some of their tanks and would like to discuss a commercial partnership they will extend an invitation to you, so no cost :steamhappy:


Originally posted by andrey12345 v2.0:

SF was not based on wargame, but was clear tanksim. By modern standards, of course not very hardcore, but it may be event better.
Yes indeed, this is what I was thinking about for the Tank sim module idea, much more tank sim focus and less strategy/tactics gameplay, like SF exactly, but set in the environment of whichever relevant tactical campaign, so it is really a completely different experience, not only 'Tank Warfare' with bonus tank interior, but perhaps a selection of more simplistic missions based upon specific elements of the main campaign, eg attack village or defend crossroads.

I am going to try again to master SF, it really does look amazing especially with STA mod.
Last edited by Red Squirrel; Jan 7, 2018 @ 7:02am
andrey12345 v2.0  [developer] Jan 7, 2018 @ 7:25am 
Originally posted by Red Squirrel:
You could take a working holiday and visit the tank museum, I think you would enjoy it, here is the largest collection of tanks in the world, and of course you can study the tanks up close, take photographs, accurate measurements etc.

I am sure if you contact the museum and explain that you have an idea to recreate a simulation of some of their tanks and would like to discuss a commercial partnership they will extend an invitation to you, so no cost :steamhappy:

Once again, apparently I could not get the idea across.
Museums - store real tanks
The game needs 3D models of cockpit tanks, not real tanks!

Museums do not make 3D models, the game does not need real tanks, only 3D models.

Even if you go to the museum every day, during the year, from this, 3D model of the cockpit will not appear.

Again.
Who will do the 3d model of cockpit (where to get it)?

Originally posted by Red Squirrel:
Yes indeed, this is what I was thinking about for the Tank sim module idea, much more tank sim focus and less strategy/tactics gameplay, like SF exactly, but set in the environment of whichever relevant tactical campaign, so it is really a completely different experience, not only 'Tank Warfare' with bonus tank interior, but perhaps a selection of more simplistic missions based upon specific elements of the main campaign, eg attack village or defend crossroads.
I wrote above, it does not work, can not take a wargame and make of it tanksim like SF
It is completely different games.
Last edited by andrey12345 v2.0; Jan 7, 2018 @ 7:26am
Red Squirrel Jan 7, 2018 @ 7:32am 
Originally posted by andrey12345 v2.0:
Who will do the 3d model of cockpit (where to get it)?
I would assume artists in your employ lol, who did the cockpits in SABOW or SF? Or did you just find them online?

Originally posted by andrey12345 v2.0:
I wrote above, it does not work, can not take a wargame and make of it tanksim like SF
It is completely different games.
Well, it was a bad idea then.
andrey12345 v2.0  [developer] Jan 7, 2018 @ 8:56am 
Originally posted by Red Squirrel:
I would assume artists in your employ lol,

Artists will obviously do them for a long time and for quite a lot of money, and this will never payback in the form of a DLC. Even in the form of a full game, this rarely transcends the payback line.
What is the goal of this idea? Spend a lot of time and money on mindless? So far only this is visible.

Originally posted by Red Squirrel:
who did the cockpits in SABOW or SF? Or did you just find them online?
These were full games, not the DLC. They are on the verge of payback. On average, the DLC purchases 10% of the game. Those. taking into account a 2 times lower price, we get 20 times less profit.

Those. it is guaranteed money and time losing event.

Once again I will ask what is the point?
Hey Aundrey, how about porting some OS winter battles into MIUS??? :steamhappy: I would buy that!!!! And many others would agree I am sure!
Randy Lahey Jan 9, 2018 @ 7:55pm 
Originally posted by Red Squirrel:
It is very sad that the tanks sims don't do better, personally I always found your them too tricky, I love your strategy games and after a struggle I learned how to play them and I enjoy them more than any other strategy series, but for some reason I cannot find comfort with the tank sims, it is a shame because I know I would enjoy them if I could only understand them, Steel Fury with STA mod in particular drives me crazy, it is clearly a wonderful piece of software from heaven, but I just can't get my head around it and I imagine it is the same for some other players too, what the answer is I don't know. :steamsad:

I find exactly the opposite. The Graviteam strategy games are FAR harder to grasp than Steel Fury and even SABOW. I just don't have enough time with SABOW yet, but I just love driving the tanks around as they are so well modeled. Steel Fury with STA mod is a MASTERPIECE of a tank sim. If I could only control the wingmen in it (ala M1 Tank Platoon 2) so they didn't do stupid things, it would be the ultimate tank sim. It's a damn shame that SABOW isn't moddable without extreme effort (don't know why that design decision was made).

I really don't understand how they don't sell better, although marketing in North America is definitely an issue. WAY less commands and structure than these strategy games (to actually use the game the way it's meant to be played, not just select and right click ala Command & Conquer). The tank sims even share the same commands for movement as every FPS game out there (WASD). Arrow keys to move the turret, space to fire, F1 to F4 to switch crew positions. Simple.

Hopefully the new sim 'Tank Crew' from the Maddox team will be as good as their flight sims, and not just another dummy World of Tanks clone.
Last edited by Randy Lahey; Jan 9, 2018 @ 8:03pm
Fritz Jan 9, 2018 @ 11:17pm 
Few years ago modmaker SHUN made mod with move "Operation star" content (no terrain) to SABOW and even did playable T-34-85 with cockpit. Also I remember some guy worked at playable Tiger. But at that time in sabow was no poligons(terrain) to play german-soviet battles. But now we have Tunisia, if place this content in SABOW, and do some german/US/UK playeble tank, we will have almost african terrain and WW2 content.
Only one problem, who will make this work...

Sorry my bad english, I hope you will understand that I mean.
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Date Posted: Jan 6, 2018 @ 9:22am
Posts: 11