Liquid Volume Regulator - how to use it?

[JeanDeaux]

Anybody have any idea how this thing works? What I want to do is put a pressure regulator on my water line that leads to a drain so that I don't over fill the capacity of the water pipe network and cause a breach.

Setting on the regulator (or back regulator) is to regulate the volume ratio of liquid, expressed as a percentage where 100 is totally full and 0 is empty. I'm not understanding what this means at all.

It would appear that Steam is always in the water line, doesn't make sense to me at all, but it's always there. Best i figure it's like the humidity level in the air, the ambient air carries some water vapors so I guess the inverse is true that liquid carries some water vapors (steam) and it's just part of having water in the pipe, like it or not. Just a guess since I have few skills, experience or understanding of fluid dynamics.

So if the setting is a percentage value, a percentage of what? The liquid in the pipe or the total quantity of what's in the pipe network (gasses & liquids)? Or does it work like some sort of filter, where 0% liquid means no liquid passes but all gasses do?

I'm so confused by this thing.

[ulzgoroth]

Originally posted by JeanDeaux:

It would appear that Steam is always in the water line, doesn't make sense to me at all, but it's always there. Best i figure it's like the humidity level in the air, the ambient air carriers some water vapors so I guess the inverse is true that liquid carries some water vapors (steam) and it's just part of having water in the pipe, like it or not. Just a guess since I have few skills, experience or understanding of fluid dynamics.

Fluid dynamics means something else, but you've basically figured it right. Liquids always (?) are in exchange with a vapor state. You should expect to never have liquid without having some gas as well. (Calling it steam is a little odd but it is legitimate gas-phase water.) This shouldn't usually be a problem if you're at appropriate fluid-handling temperatures for the liquids involved, though you could potentially get a brief but dangerous pressure spike out of it by ramming liquid quickly into a pipe that initially contained mostly vapor. (Quasi-water hammer effect, though not really matching the details at all.)

This might not be followed in Stationeers because it seems like it may be (aphysically) using the total pressure instead of the partial pressure to determine the equilibrium? I need to investigate this if I can.

Originally posted by JeanDeaux:

So if the setting is a percentage value, a percentage of what? The liquid in the pipe or the total quantity of what's in the pipe network (gasses & liquids)? Or does it work like some sort of filter, where 0% liquid means no liquid passes but all gasses do?

I'm so confused by this thing.

My reading is, it will let liquid flow from inlet to outlet if the outlet pipe liquid volume is below the set fraction of the total pipe volume. (100% presumably should not work, though?) This is reading only, not testing.

Flow rate might be influenced by the pressure difference between in and out, don't know.

I'm not sure what would happen if it tries to fill to 100% liquid, compressing any vapors in the line to zero volume. That might be something to avoid or test in an expendable environment.

[JeanDeaux]

A bit more experimenting with overfill management and it's leading to more questions than answers.

According to my tablet, my small insulated liquid tank has a 6000 Liter capacity. (no mention of capacity in the StationPedia).

Insulated liquid pipes connected between my ice crusher and the insulated tank display a capacity of 160 Liters and contain both Liquid Water and Gaseous Water (Steam).

My insulated liquid pipes I've installed on a branch after a liquid back pressure regulator and finally to an active liquid drain are showing only Gaseous Water (steam) and a capacity of only 60 Liters.
(no mention of capacity in the StationPedia for pipes either).

Changing the backfeed percentage between 10% and 90% to get an idea of what's going to happen resulted in a slightly higher water pressure level on the tank side of the regulator, I didn't really see any change on the post side of the regulator except for the fact the water pipes between the regulator and drain contained only Steam and no liquids.

So new questions I have...
Why does the pipe change capacity depending upon where it's connected in the network, why isn't the capacity consistent?

Does the liquid drain allow only liquids to drain and gasses will be building up over time until the BOOM?

What's the use of having such a large storage tank capacity if it appears the pipe can only support but a tiny fraction of that amount, won't the pipes burst at their capacity before the tank's capacity is ever reached?

And just how the heck am I supposed to figure out all this stuff? Do I need to go get a college degree in liquid mechanics (or whatever degree is related) now in order to play this game, or is there some form of tutorial for the laymen in the works to help us better understand what's going on here?

[ulzgoroth]

Originally posted by JeanDeaux:

So new questions I have...
Why does the pipe change capacity depending upon where it's connected in the network, why isn't the capacity consistent?

Are they the same number of pipe segments? Each pipe kit contributes volume to the network.

Originally posted by JeanDeaux:

Does the liquid drain allow only liquids to drain and gasses will be building up over time until the BOOM?

It sounds like it allows only liquids to drain, but why would gasses build up? If they built up above the vapor pressure at the temperature present, they would condense and drain away.

Originally posted by JeanDeaux:

What's the use of having such a large storage tank capacity if it appears the pipe can only support but a tiny fraction of that amount, won't the pipes burst at their capacity before the tank's capacity is ever reached?

Why would the liquid stay in the pipes to burst them instead of moving into the tank?!?

Though I don't know how exactly liquid flow is supposed to work on that front.

[JeanDeaux]

Originally posted by ulzgoroth:

Are they the same number of pipe segments? Each pipe kit contributes volume to the network.

No, and counting up the number of pipe segments for each branch does appear to provide about 20 Liters of volume per segment by that theory, so looks like a good point. Now, how to apply that knowledge...

Originally posted by ulzgoroth:

Why would the liquid stay in the pipes to burst them instead of moving into the tank?!?

it's my understanding that resources is a simple data pool and the game is not actually modelling physics in each pipe or device segment. Before the update, pressure was across the entire pipe network between each device, I would be surprised to find this method changed since it would require a much more powerful computer to run such a simulation across all power and plumbing networks.

So no, I don't think we can consider that water travels to the tank and waits there while voiding itself from the pipes attached in its path; at least I've seen no commenting that this mechanic has changed.

[ulzgoroth]

Originally posted by JeanDeaux:

Originally posted by ulzgoroth:

Why would the liquid stay in the pipes to burst them instead of moving into the tank?!?

it's my understanding that resources is a simple data pool and the game is not actually modelling physics in each pipe or device segment. Before the update, pressure was across the entire pipe network between each device, I would be surprised to find this method changed since it would require a much more powerful computer to run such a simulation across all power and plumbing networks.

So no, I don't think we can consider that water travels to the tank and waits there while voiding itself from the pipes attached in its path; at least I've seen no commenting that this mechanic has changed.

If the tank becomes part of the same network as the pipe, there isn't any possible problem, because then the only volume in play is the volume of the whole network.

If the tank is a separate volume from the pipe network then the question is how the interface works.

The game treats each 'pipe network' as a singular volume, but the particular behavior of the components that bridge liquid pipe networks are obscure to me.

[JeanDeaux]

I too feel that the tank and the pipe should become a single network and share a volume value, the readings from my tablet are what is confusing. Am I supposed to trust what the tablet is telling me that network segment is capable of supporting or go with the manual accounting of the sum of all objects on that section?

Think I might need to sit back a spell and let some SME's figure this out and watch their videos.

[ulzgoroth]

Originally posted by JeanDeaux:

I too feel that the tank and the pipe should become a single network and share a volume value, the readings from my tablet are what is confusing. Am I supposed to trust what the tablet is telling me that network segment is capable of supporting or go with the manual accounting of the sum of all objects on that section?

Why would you not trust the tablet? The tablet is almost certainly going to be going directly to the source of truth.

I don't know that a docked tank becomes part of the network as opposed to being another volume separated by a device. Maybe it does, I'll have to check.

[[ToJ.cc]Apsis]

If the tank and pipes were all considered by the game to be "one network" wouldn't the capacity of the tank change as you added or removed pipes?
I haven't noticed that happening, so I think tanks are a separate "network" so to speak.

Try placing one pipe down and take a reading, when I do that in game, for each pipe segment I get 10 liters of capacity per pipe segment placed as read by the atmospherics cartridge for the tablet. The insulated small tank reads 6000 liters with or without a pipe connected.

[G-Man]

The % setting on the volume regulator means that it will pump liquid until the output network has filled up that percentage of the network's total volume with liquid. For the back regulator it will only pump when the input network is over this ratio. If you put a back pressure regulator onto a pipe and set it to 90% then it'll make sure that pipe doesn't fill up past 90% its maximum volume. It only counts liquids, since gasses are compressible and don't have a fixed volume.

Gasses can flow freely both ways through the volume regulators, so you'll always see a little bit of steam on both sides even if the pump hasn't pumped any water yet. The liquid drain will also let gasses flow freely, so you don't need to worry about gas building up. Liquid volume pumps let gas flow through but only one-way. Both let gas flow even if they aren't pumping liquids. It's kinda confusing and I don't think it's all in the stationpedia yet, but you can check the patch notes for more details.

Technically a tank is a separate network to a pipe connected to it just like two pipe networks connected with a two-way valve are separate networks. Just like gasses though, they'll equalize between one another according to their volume. If your tank is 6000L and the pipes are 4000L then the tank will contain 60% of the mols and the pipes will contain the other 40%. The tablet will only show you the volume of one network at a time; if you want to know the total volume of the connected networks you'll have to add them all up.

[JeanDeaux]

Thanks G-Man, all your responses align with the test results I've made thus far so I'm officially buying in on these. Thanks!