Cabal Mission Requirements and small Cabals

[TemplarGFX]

My friend and I are playing this COOP and have a Cabal of two.

We are finding these cabal turn-in missions to be extremely expensive. Are the requirements scaled by the size of the Cabal, or are we paying the same amount as a Cabal of 10 for example?

[The Midnight Animal]

Ok. Let me break this down Barney style.

All things being equal meaning each member gets the same score, ok? So in the example I used 1 member equals 100 kills.

Being in a Cabal is not about individual effort. Because it is a group that has group goals. Overall effort expended in my group was higher, because I have 28 more members.

Do you understand?

3000 kills is significantly more than 200 kills.

I don’t think I understand what you are not getting. It is simple.

[TemplarGFX]

Originally posted by CosmicHobo:

Ok. Let me break this down Barney style.

All things being equal meaning each member gets the same score, ok? So in the example I used 1 member equals 100 kills.

Being in a Cabal is not about individual effort. Because it is a group that has group goals. Overall effort expended in my group was higher, because I have 28 more members.

Do you understand?

3000 kills is significantly more than 200 kills.

I don’t think I understand what you are not getting. It is simple.

That would only apply IF missions did scale to your cabal size.....

Cabal Mission : Kill 3000 enemies
Cabal of 30 each have to kill just 100 each
Cabal of 2 have to kill 1500 each

Who is doing less work? I would suggest that the small Cabal as a group is doing MUCH more work, as each individual must dedicate much larger gameplay to achieving the group goal than the individuals in the 30 man group

[The Midnight Animal]

You as individuals are doing more work. You as a Cabal are not. A Cabal is not about the individual, it is about the group. The group produced 3000 kills. Doesn’t matter who got the kills, only that the kills happened.

YOU as a person had to grind longer. But it’s because you’re failing to recruit. You should not be rewarded for your shortcomings. You had to work harder, because you are neglecting to take another route. At that point it isn’t that the work is hard, it’s that you have imposed the workload on yourself.

[VI]

Originally posted by CosmicHobo:

You as individuals are doing more work. You as a Cabal are not. A Cabal is not about the individual, it is about the group. The group produced 3000 kills. Doesn’t matter who got the kills, only that the kills happened.

YOU as a person had to grind longer. But it’s because you’re failing to recruit. You should not be rewarded for your shortcomings. You had to work harder, because you are neglecting to take another route. At that point it isn’t that the work is hard, it’s that you have imposed the workload on yourself.

Cosmichobo, I get you man, and I don't understand how no one else does.
Name one other game where the guild level requirements were lowered to accomodate your tiny guild? Not only that, but why should it??? it's a guild/clan/cabal It's tasks are strictly meant for a community, not a couple, not a few, an organization, a large crew whatever.

It's your choice if you choose to be a two man cabal.

Let's make a real word scenario out of this whole debate.

Let's say you own a building and you're seacrhing for a company to roof your building. You see company A which has 30 people and company B which has 2.

The task is still to roof the building. Company A wll complete the task significantly faster and probably under budget too. Company B will still get the job down but it'll take longer and each worker will have to contribute more, company B will probably not meet the deadline.

Again the task is still the same for each crew, even though the individuals of the crew will have dramatically different workloads.

The consumer (you) will choose company A for obvious reasons. This is simply how it works, Cabal missions are jobs for your company in this scenario, not jobs for the individuals of your company. It's a group effort, and AGAIN the job was the SAME for both companies.

[JxKros]

NO. JUST NO.

Originally posted by VI:

Originally posted by CosmicHobo:

You as individuals are doing more work. You as a Cabal are not. A Cabal is not about the individual, it is about the group. The group produced 3000 kills. Doesn’t matter who got the kills, only that the kills happened.

YOU as a person had to grind longer. But it’s because you’re failing to recruit. You should not be rewarded for your shortcomings. You had to work harder, because you are neglecting to take another route. At that point it isn’t that the work is hard, it’s that you have imposed the workload on yourself.

Cosmichobo, I get you man, and I don't understand how no one else does.
Name one other game where the guild level requirements were lowered to accomodate your tiny guild? Not only that, but why should it??? it's a guild/clan/cabal It's tasks are strictly meant for a community, not a couple, not a few, an organization, a large crew whatever.

It's your choice if you choose to be a two man cabal.

Let's make a real word scenario out of this whole debate.

Let's say you own a building and you're seacrhing for a company to roof your building. You see company A which has 30 people and company B which has 2.

The task is still to roof the building. Company A wll complete the task significantly faster and probably under budget too. Company B will still get the job down but it'll take longer and each worker will have to contribute more, company B will probably not meet the deadline.

Again the task is still the same for each crew, even though the individuals of the crew will have dramatically different workloads.

The consumer (you) will choose company A for obvious reasons. This is simply how it works, Cabal missions are jobs for your company in this scenario, not jobs for the individuals of your company. It's a group effort, and AGAIN the job was the SAME for both companies.

As the consumer you would choose the company which best suites your needs. If you have a small roof, you would not hire a 30 man crew, because the charge for the job includes manpower. For a small roof, the small company would be more cost effective. And a 30 man crew would just get in each other's way for a small job.

Also a 30 man crew company would either specialize in industrial jobs only, or break up the crew to fit the particular job.

You are making several unstated assumptions in your arguement. You real world arguement is garbage. There is no proven standard that bigger is always better in the real world.

Besides, this is not the real world. Cabal recruiting is a social function included in the game and not a "game mechanic." You are so caught up on the meme that people do not want to work that you are disregarding everything else. 20 doing the work of 20 is doing less each than 2 doing the work of 20. If you valued hard work so much, you would support smaller guilds getting equal or better rewards.

Opening a cabal for recruitment is not work, killing npcs is the real word of this game.

[VI]

Originally posted by JxKros:

NO. JUST NO.

Originally posted by VI:

Cosmichobo, I get you man, and I don't understand how no one else does.
Name one other game where the guild level requirements were lowered to accomodate your tiny guild? Not only that, but why should it??? it's a guild/clan/cabal It's tasks are strictly meant for a community, not a couple, not a few, an organization, a large crew whatever.

It's your choice if you choose to be a two man cabal.

Let's make a real word scenario out of this whole debate.

Let's say you own a building and you're seacrhing for a company to roof your building. You see company A which has 30 people and company B which has 2.

The task is still to roof the building. Company A wll complete the task significantly faster and probably under budget too. Company B will still get the job down but it'll take longer and each worker will have to contribute more, company B will probably not meet the deadline.

Again the task is still the same for each crew, even though the individuals of the crew will have dramatically different workloads.

The consumer (you) will choose company A for obvious reasons. This is simply how it works, Cabal missions are jobs for your company in this scenario, not jobs for the individuals of your company. It's a group effort, and AGAIN the job was the SAME for both companies.

As the consumer you would choose the company which best suites your needs. If you have a small roof, you would not hire a 30 man crew, because the charge for the job includes manpower. For a small roof, the small company would be more cost effective. And a 30 man crew would just get in each other's way for a small job.

Also a 30 man crew company would either specialize in industrial jobs only, or break up the crew to fit the particular job.

You are making several unstated assumptions in your arguement. You real world arguement is garbage. There is no proven standard that bigger is always better in the real world.

Besides, this is not the real world. Cabal recruiting is a social function included in the game and not a "game mechanic." You are so caught up on the meme that people do not want to work that you are disregarding everything else. 20 doing the work of 20 is doing less each than 2 doing the work of 20. If you valued hard work so much, you would support smaller guilds getting equal or better rewards.

Opening a cabal for recruitment is not work, killing npcs is the real word of this game.

The pretense of this entire thread and my scenario is that the job is large (that's the complaint right? that the missions are too big for the little cabals). I guess I should've said large building, my bad for thinking everyone would understand that would be implied. With that being said, the first half of what you wrote is null and void as it doesn't fit the topic,

Argument is not garbage, the only variable here is the size of the crew not the quality of the workers or the size ofthe job. The only variable is the size of the crew, so therefore yes, bigger is better. God, why is it so hard for you to understand that?

You really going to say that it doesn't take work to maintain a cabal? This your first online game that supported clans? So the top guilds in WoW for example, they took no effort to build that clan? Ok man.

I do value hardwork, it's just simply that your arguement doesn't fit. The cabal assingments are meant for a large crew of people. If you want faster progress, recruit. Simple, like really simple...

[The Midnight Animal]

JxKros, I have no idea how much simpler I can break this down. I actually do not think that I can. You literally have missed every point I made. It’s like you read the words but you don’t speak English. They are just noises to you. I can’t break it down further for you. You’ll just have to not understand. That’s your problem, not mine.

[TemplarGFX]

Originally posted by VI:

Originally posted by CosmicHobo:

You as individuals are doing more work. You as a Cabal are not. A Cabal is not about the individual, it is about the group. The group produced 3000 kills. Doesn’t matter who got the kills, only that the kills happened.

YOU as a person had to grind longer. But it’s because you’re failing to recruit. You should not be rewarded for your shortcomings. You had to work harder, because you are neglecting to take another route. At that point it isn’t that the work is hard, it’s that you have imposed the workload on yourself.

Cosmichobo, I get you man, and I don't understand how no one else does.
Name one other game where the guild level requirements were lowered to accomodate your tiny guild? Not only that, but why should it??? it's a guild/clan/cabal It's tasks are strictly meant for a community, not a couple, not a few, an organization, a large crew whatever.

It's your choice if you choose to be a two man cabal.

Let's make a real word scenario out of this whole debate.
--CUT--.

Im starting to think we are not even playing the same game. Inquisitor Martyr is not a PvP focused MMO or even an MMO.

Look at the Cabal benefits gained through Cabal missions :

Rogue Traders offer Item Collections
Rogue Trader offers a wider variety of Item Collections
Increased chance to find Advanced Materials and Artificer items at the Rogue Trader
More Regular Missions on the Star Map
+5% Crafting Material find chance after every other Cabal Member
+5% XP after every other Cabal Member
+5% Credit award after every other Cabal Member
+5 Fate after ever other Cabal Member
+20 Glory after every other Cabal Member
20% discount to item collections, materials and blue prints at the Rogue Trader
Grants and Extra Cabal Directive per Week x 2
Grants a ReRoll of the Cabal Directive

All of these Cabal features are for Single and Coop play with not a single one of them being focused on competitive gameplay where Cabals' are in direct competition. There are no PvP buffs, group heals or special abilities gained through the Cabal system that could give one Cabal an advantage over the other.


Personally, I would think that owners of larger active Cabals would want players joining their Cabals that are actually interested in being a part of the cabal community and interacting with it. At the moment, people are forced to join large Cabals for these game benifits even if they have no intention of being a contributing member of the Cabal. Seen as nothing about the Cabal system gives a Cabal an advantage, it just seems silly to make it so negative against small groups.
AFAIK you can only have 4 players in the same game at the same time, so you cant even deploy a large cabal.

[Portnavi]

Originally posted by CosmicHobo:

You as individuals are doing more work. You as a Cabal are not. A Cabal is not about the individual, it is about the group. The group produced 3000 kills. Doesn’t matter who got the kills, only that the kills happened.

YOU as a person had to grind longer. But it’s because you’re failing to recruit. You should not be rewarded for your shortcomings. You had to work harder, because you are neglecting to take another route. At that point it isn’t that the work is hard, it’s that you have imposed the workload on yourself.

So, the challenge of the cabal is recruiting. Kind of lame. Recruiting isn't challenging.

[Ryvucz]

It could use some adjustments.

Take Dungeons & Dragons Online for example, small guilds get a large boost to earned guild XP due to having less members being able to contribute vs larger ones.

Does it make people want smaller guilds? No, it just means smaller, tighter communities are able to keep up with the perks that larger guilds have.

[Avenger93]

Originally posted by TemplarGFX:

Snip for space

Someone at long last gets it. Those things were benefits we used to have in the beta in some form or another without the cabal. They stripped them and ported them to cabals, but the game absolutely does not offer ANY gameplay mode or mechanic where having 20 people working toghether in one setting exists. COOP and PvP are 4 players max, and cabals give no bonuses to that.

At this point, the only reason I tossed applications at a few larger cabals that don't throw retarded "you must play this much or get kicked!" restrictions, is because I want those bonuses, not because I have any interest in playing with anyone, but because those bonuses are actively restricting the solo or small group experience a rather large portion of the playerbase may choose to engage in.

As for the laughable notion that growing your cabal is a challenge ... oh yes. Tick one box is such a great challenge. Truly, we have reached the dark souls of inquisitor martyr levels of difficulty.

[TemplarGFX]

Originally posted by Avenger93:

Originally posted by TemplarGFX:

Snip for space

Someone at long last gets it. Those things were benefits we used to have in the beta in some form or another without the cabal. They stripped them and ported them to cabals, but the game absolutely does not offer ANY gameplay mode or mechanic where having 20 people working toghether in one setting exists. COOP and PvP are 4 players max, and cabals give no bonuses to that.

At this point, the only reason I tossed applications at a few larger cabals that don't throw retarded "you must play this much or get kicked!" restrictions, is because I want those bonuses, not because I have any interest in playing with anyone, but because those bonuses are actively restricting the solo or small group experience a rather large portion of the playerbase may choose to engage in.

As for the laughable notion that growing your cabal is a challenge ... oh yes. Tick one box is such a great challenge. Truly, we have reached the dark souls of inquisitor martyr levels of difficulty.

Right on!


These here are the incentive the grow your cabal :
+5% Crafting Material find chance after every other Cabal Member
+5% XP after every other Cabal Member
+5% Credit award after every other Cabal Member
+5 Fate after ever other Cabal Member
+20 Glory after every other Cabal Member

These give larger cabals are greater reward over smaller cabals by virtue of their member numbers and should be the incentive to build a large cabal, not so you can unlock these to begin with

[Jhones]

Sooooo, when it comes to leveling your Cabal you noly get Cabal XP from the weekly Cabal Missions yes?

If so then it's a borked system, because me and a mate are in a Cabal, purely because it makes it easier to find each other in game and we complete those weekly missions with no stress during the week. And the grand reward for this is........ about 30xp lol

Why haven't they implemented a small XP gain, like even if it's only 1 XP + 1 for each addition Cabal member, per any other mission you complete.

[Irrelevant]

To put things as they are:

If you are in a Cabal and not at the maximum member count you are ♥♥♥♥♥♥. Mission XP is always calculated for each memeber in your cabal and for the mission itself. Doation mission net less xp over all.
1 guy does a cabal quest it's like 5 xp, 20 guys do a cabal quest it's like 100 xp. The whole system is a mess and if you look through the old discussions you'll find threads from early EA stages that were made for changes on that system that never happened.

Anyway it's on the devs list for wishes and suggestions... ^^

[Jurij I. Gorkij]

I wonder, from where is overall information cabal directives are not scaled?

I found cabal, invited my friend. Together, we invested 20k credits, then (about) 40 craft. materials and collected 75 Curios for one of earliest quest. Next week, 3 another members joined, we had to invest more credits, 100 craft. materials and collect 300 curios...

CosmicHobo, your logic makes kind of sense, but is flawed because of lack of information. Cabal gets (for most rewarding task) number_of_members*5xp. In your case (3k kills objective) it means every member of full cabal needs to get 100 kills for 5 xp, while small cabal (two members) needs 1500 kills to get 5xp.

You would be right only if for same objective (no matter the size of cabal) would be equal rewards.