The Elder Scrolls V: Skyrim Special Edition

The Elder Scrolls V: Skyrim Special Edition

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anatagamu 17. sep. kl. 15:59
Absolutely loving the leveling system
I've never played a game like this where your skill level is directly linked to your play-time / play-style. For instance, when you use a single handed weapon, your single handed weapon skill increases. It make it realistic and very balanced game - you get better at things based on usage i.e. you play the game and skill points are automatically invested based on what you are doing. Then you get to choose your perk. It's brilliant.

So question: I find this very unique and enjoyable. Are there any other games with a similar leveling framework? Are the other Elder Scrolls like this or is it unique to Skyrim?
Opprinnelig skrevet av Jerubius:
The reason not many rpgs adapt this kind of system is because it's difficult to handle. The improve skills by using skills system tends to encourage specialization, which can lead to less interesting characters. It also heavily encourages generic content. If you introduce enemies who are very difficult for a melee character to fight, then that character has no good choices. They could run away from these enemies, but then they miss out on a chance to further improve skills and are weaker for later content. They could use ranged skills, but this will be difficult as they are using untrained skills, and only gaining progression on skills that don't meaningfully increase their power. They could just struggle through melee, this would be the hardest option, but actually provides meaningful progression when they do finally succeed. This segues into another point, which is that this system encourages you to approach every situation the same way. If you do not use your primary skills to solve a situation, then you are at best making no progress, and at worst making the game harder on yourself.
Skyrim works around this by generally being not that challenging of a game, and providing diverse content that encourages multiple playthroughs, but that's not where most other rpgs want to be. Even if you aren't being optimal in Skyrim, the game rarely becomes too challenging, and being overly optimal can make the game boring because of how easy it becomes.
A lot of other games that use similar systems have another approach though: they provide multiple characters. Games like Mount and Blade or Disgaea work around the limitations of hyper-specialization by giving you a party that can compensate for each other's weaknesses. Though in both cases, they hybridize the system with a more traditional leveling system so it isn't a complete wasted effort if a character doesn't get a chance to use their core skills.
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Sabaithal 17. sep. kl. 16:01 
Unfortunately, no not really. Its a good design, shame no other game uses a similar one. Well, besides some of the Disgaea games, but those are turn-based isometric games.
anatagamu 17. sep. kl. 16:04 
Hmmmm. I wonder why they don't use the same design..... Surely there has to be a reason, given all the RPGs that have come out since Skyrim launched? Perhaps devs are scared to take on Skyrim? Maybe it's "copyrighted" by Bethesda? Maybe it's too complex to code?
Can't speak to Arena and Daggerfall, since I've never played them, but in Morrowind and Oblivion you have class skills.

Morrowind you have 5 major skills, 5 minor and all the rest are miscellaneous. Major skills increase the fastest, and miscellaneous the slowest. When you gain a total of 10 points in major and minor skills, you can level up. Every class also has a "specialization" combat, magic or stealth. Skills in your specialization increase faster.

Every skill has a governing attribute, and the more you use skills governed by those attributes, the more of a "multiplier" you get when you level up. If you gain 5 points in skills covered by strength by the time you level up, you can increase your Strength score by 5. But if you only get 2 points in skills governed by Personality, you can only increase Personality by 2. Miscellaneous skills contribute towards the multiplier, but not level progress.

Oblivion is similar, but has 7 major skills per class and the rest are minor.
DarkFire 17. sep. kl. 16:13 
The Dungeon Siege games by Microsoft had a similar levelling system, but those games are ancient by now. Good fun though for dungeon crawlers though.
Sabaithal 17. sep. kl. 16:15 
[rant]Oh if only the people who made shadow of war this approach the game would have been so much better...or alternatively gone with the same approach as the previous game it would have been better. Basically anything than their current borderlands level-based lootbox microtransaction in a SINGLEPLAYER GAME!!![/rant]

Have I mentioned how much I hate WB studios now?
anatagamu 17. sep. kl. 16:27 
Thanks for the info Nitron and DarkFire.

Haha. I'm yet to play Shadow of War - it's in my library backlog.....

EDIT: I have Shadow of Mordor, not Shadow of War.
Sist redigert av anatagamu; 17. sep. kl. 16:28
Sabaithal 17. sep. kl. 16:33 
Opprinnelig skrevet av anatagamu:
Thanks for the info Nitron and DarkFire.

Haha. I'm yet to play Shadow of War - it's in my library backlog.....

EDIT: I have Shadow of Mordor, not Shadow of War.
Shadow of Mordor is a better game. I wouldn't bother with the crippled sequel.
Lightning 17. sep. kl. 17:17 
I think I liked the idea of major skills / minor skills better from Oblivion but that's me, once you max one out at 100 you can't level it anymore and gain more levels, just odd to go over 100 when items cap out at 46 in Skyrim right?
Ambugaton 17. sep. kl. 17:51 
Opprinnelig skrevet av Sabaithal:
[rant]Oh if only the people who made shadow of war this approach the game would have been so much better...or alternatively gone with the same approach as the previous game it would have been better. Basically anything than their current borderlands level-based lootbox microtransaction in a SINGLEPLAYER GAME!!![/rant]

Have I mentioned how much I hate WB studios now?


I'm ♥♥♥♥♥♥ because that game had SO much potential.. First the mirco transactions. Then the lack of really developing the use of the orc armies.. the orc recruitment, rebellions, etc. was great and they just sort of let it sit there. Then they completely screwed up the orc classes because people were whining that orcs not meant for one on one battle were losing in pit fights, well no ♥♥♥♥. The final straw for me was letting people dominate orcs we had recruited. I'd spent hours hunting/curating for the orcs I had, had an entire fort with nothing but necromancers as an example, and someone can come in and spend 10 minutes to get them? No thanks.
Ambugaton 17. sep. kl. 17:52 
Opprinnelig skrevet av Lightning:
I think I liked the idea of major skills / minor skills better from Oblivion but that's me, once you max one out at 100 you can't level it anymore and gain more levels, just odd to go over 100 when items cap out at 46 in Skyrim right?


I actually like the leveling system, the problem is that there's no content for higher levels.
anatagamu 17. sep. kl. 17:55 
Yeah, I've read that you can make skills legendary. But by the time you're up to that max level, it's no doubt time to start a new game with a new race and new mods :-)
jos Cosmo 17. sep. kl. 17:58 
I love the replay ability of the leveling system! I haven't seen many games using the same system other than other bethesda games.
Sabaithal 17. sep. kl. 18:00 
Opprinnelig skrevet av Ambugaton:
Opprinnelig skrevet av Sabaithal:
[rant]Oh if only the people who made shadow of war this approach the game would have been so much better...or alternatively gone with the same approach as the previous game it would have been better. Basically anything than their current borderlands level-based lootbox microtransaction in a SINGLEPLAYER GAME!!![/rant]

Have I mentioned how much I hate WB studios now?


I'm ♥♥♥♥♥♥ because that game had SO much potential.. First the mirco transactions. Then the lack of really developing the use of the orc armies.. the orc recruitment, rebellions, etc. was great and they just sort of let it sit there. Then they completely screwed up the orc classes because people were whining that orcs not meant for one on one battle were losing in pit fights, well no ♥♥♥♥. The final straw for me was letting people dominate orcs we had recruited. I'd spent hours hunting/curating for the orcs I had, had an entire fort with nothing but necromancers as an example, and someone can come in and spend 10 minutes to get them? No thanks.
All that did ♥♥♥♥ me off too, but what really got to me was how they crippled the background mechanics. I mean, instead of those awesome secondary quests to upgrade our weapons (all of which were unique and fun) and those runes you got from sending death threats to orc captains, then killing them in 10v1 combat...was replaced with a level-based loot system. Which I absolutely ♥♥♥♥ing hate. Its good for crap MMO games, and multiplayer games of low quality. Not good if you're intending to make a good impression for single player gaming, or quality multiplayer. Why did they replace the good stuff with this crap? Because if they didn't they wouldn't be able to charge us microtransactions. Seriously, ♥♥♥♥ WB studios...
Perplex 17. sep. kl. 19:30 
I like it but you level way to fast by just using like 1-3 skills. I basicly dont even have the time to turn my character 180 degrees before i am level 25+. It feels a bit "meh" sometimes.

My latest playthrough i decided to do the thieves guild questline ASAP, so i did. The first thing i did was go to Riften and start it. I did not even enter Whiterun untill they sent me there for the Q to talk to a guy in the tavern.
Skills i used was Archery and One-Handed. I used some lockpicking when needed and some sneak when needed but those are still low level as i bruteforced my self through it all.

When it was all over i was 27 or 28. I went to Riften right after leaving Helgen...
Sist redigert av Perplex; 17. sep. kl. 19:34
NimrodX 17. sep. kl. 23:59 
The only real problem is that you can screw yourself by picking the wrong perks, then you can't really do anything about it unless you get an affected skill to 100 (at which point you can recover some perks from that skill by resetting it).

It's not that bad but I can easily imagine people wasting their perks on stupid stuff and having to start over. Like I find that none of the lockpicking perks are really worth it. most of the pickpocket perks are a waste (but I like the one that gives you +100 carry capacity).

but then again get high enough level and you can just block a giant for a while every time you want more perks. (The only real weakness in the system is that past a certain level it's difficult to gain levels without the "block a giant" tactic to power leveling, or something similarly silly with another skill like illusion.)
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