Minion Masters

Minion Masters

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Erythais  [developer] Feb 26 @ 12:49am
PTR Feedback Megathread
Minion Masters!

With the PTR being open to everyone[blog.betadwarf.com], we need your feedback on the loads of changes coming with the Visual Rework in a structured, calm, constructive and rational way. That's why we want to emphasize you to give us your feedback using the following template:

Feedback for 0.60.3

Range of units:

Scale of units:

Range & Aggro indicators:

Sticky Placement:

Reward Opening:

General Look:

Prowler:

Battle Shi-Hou:

Scrat Tank:

Morgrul:

Brutus and Terror Brutus:

Healing Shrine:

Other:

Balance Changes

Prowler

  • Pounce cooldown 3 to 2
  • Pounce Min range 4 to 3
  • Damage 75 to 85
  • Clarified Extra damage in description

Scrat Tank

  • Health 600 to 700
  • Attack Delay 1500 to 700
  • Damage 50 to 60

Battle Shi-Hou
  • Health 350 to 450

Morgrul
  • Roar damage -> 50
  • Knockback distance up from 3 to 4
  • Now summons 2 Swarmers on every roar

Brutus

  • AS 3.0 to 2.5
  • Damage 30 to 50 (DPS 10 to 20)
  • Same for Terror Brutus

Healing Shrine

  • Heal per sec 100 -> 75
  • Lifetime 10 -> 12

Happy testing, Masters!

Cheers from BetaDwarf
Last edited by Erythais; Feb 26 @ 1:07am
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Showing 1-15 of 23 comments
Ciunay_R Feb 26 @ 6:46am 
I tried a couple of matches against AI.

- I don't like the magnet effect that blocks a unit before the bridge, when you try to move that unit over it. It's much better as it is, so a free cursor and a red unit when you can't drop it on the enemy side.

- I don't like the new camera angle, and it's too close though.

- Not sure but did you change the lights? Is it more dark? If yes, i don't like it.

I don't think i dislike the changes because of habit. I like new things but not every new thing is better for sure. I especially hope you are not going to change the first two points.
Last edited by Ciunay_R; Feb 26 @ 6:46am
StevenEven Feb 26 @ 11:01am 
Range of units, range and agrro indicators: I dont really see the difernece for this things but it also feels a little smoother and precise... I like it...not really anything to complain about from my point of view.

Scale of units : I am a bit meh on this one... cant you like keep the new minon speed or units or whatever are they but only visually make the minions smaller as they were again?

Sticky placement: THANKS GOD for this one, I cant explain how much better this is because I dont have to move my mouse 1 milimeter to actually place the minion, so much smoother, LOVE IT, best thing of this update IMO

Reward opening: really cool, seems so much more "WOW, YOU GOT REWARDED, CONGRATS"... and I liek it, but what is anoying is that I have to clikc on the minion to continue, I was used to the continue button and I did not even realize that is the way to go at first... maybe some type of indicator you need to clikc on the minion to finish the opening?

General look: I have to agree everything sems a bit darker, more shadier... that is what I dont like... The game seemed more colorfull before and I think it was better, I do like the new viuals overall, nut those small shadows on minions seem to overall bring the mood down.

Prowler: PROWLER BUFF!!!! <3 <3 <3 (aka I love it) I like how you first made him more dependable on his pounce rather than make him pounce all around, but then it became underused, and now you make him slighly less dependable by finding the middle between the minimum range and pounce cooldown, and also giving him more damage to make his rares pounces more significant.

Scrat tank: Obviously an underused card that needed a buff and it seems it got some good stuff, not sure if teh delay needed to be that low, I think 1.5s was enouhg, now he sits there with his lid open for a while, but anyway I think it does not hurt that much.
Previously scrat tank gave about the same value (maybe even less) as an undying and was very comparable to it, and for +1 mana cost, I think that now it should be worth playing.

Battle Shi hou: wow... that's... a lot of health for an already decent minion... but again.. underused, seemed like it needed a buff, I think it will be nice, but to be honest, I think tranquil should receive this buff too! or at least 400 health on tranquil

Morgul: Inetersting... I feel the roar distance has either not bee changes or actually reduced ... not sure.... but I feel like the swamers are a big buff.... morgul seems fine to me now, but if things get out of hand with him I would suggest making him 5 mana again, altho I dont hink it will be necessary

Brutus: I feel weird they now both have teh same dps but I understand it, now Brutus can acutaly kill stuf rather than only healing and dealing small damage, I really like it, the only problem is that I dont think it will be enouhg for ravager, he only shines in his second perk and is often outclassed by other masters, especially his range being a big setback for him

healing shrine: meh.... seems like too little of a change for such a card... I would still like his range reduced with that, 10 range is just way to much for an AoE healing and more importantly it;s a building, it should not hit the enemy side, I feel like 8 range is the rihgt spot IMO



P.S. another thing, if I drag a unit in the right bottom corner of my arena I cant play it ebcause it;s too close to the cards, a bit anoying when you want to try the new stikcy placement wwith something like a scrat horde

Last edited by StevenEven; Feb 26 @ 11:06am
StevenEven Feb 26 @ 11:37am 
also, yeah, I have to agree the old camera angle was way batter, the new one is what prevents me from playing cards at the exact bottom and I dont think we need a closer view
Range of units and Range & Aggro indicators: seems a bit buggy. Picture 1, Picture 2 When I'm playing the cannon roller, the range indicator doesn't appear to be in range of the living statue, yet the aggro indicator says it is in range. Then for the sniper, it goes the other way, the range indicator has the demon warrior within the circle, yet the aggro indicator doesn't activate.

Scale of units: Here's a list of all the cards that are incorrectly sized. In parentheses is what I would change to make them better scaled. (10% smaller means I want it 10% smaller than it is currently) I'm basing this on threat level. We want more impactful minions to be larger than less impactful minions.

Blood Imps (30% smaller)
Scrats (30% smaller)
Banner Man (10% smaller)
Boomer (egg is fine, actual boomer 20% bigger)
Crossbow dudes (10% smaller)
Propellor Scrats (20% smaller)
Barrel Scrats (10% smaller)
Grenadier (10% bigger)
Snake Druid (10% smaller)
Cannon Roller (10% bigger)
Drone Buzzers (10% smaller)
Flame Imp (10% bigger)
Priestess (10% bigger)
Rammer (10% smaller)
Spear throwers (10% smaller)
Living Statue (10% bigger)
Soulstealer (10% smaller)
Wizard Puff (10% bigger)
Blue & Red Golem (20% bigger... they look so wimpy right now)
Colossus (10% bigger)
Brutus (10% bigger)

Sticky Placement: Nice feature! I hated it whenever I tried to play a minion right on the bridge, and it didn't play when I wanted because I clicked 1 pixel too far the right.

Reward Opening: Much faster and very smooth. Its very helpful for when I'm opening 40 packs in a row and want to do it fast.

General Look: Looks really nice. Still want the new sandstorm effect to be reduced slightly.

Prowler: Doesn't look too powerful. I like how the damage increase doesn't really help minion interaction in anyway to keep him in check, yet it helps against big tanky stuff that he really struggles against.

Battle Shi-Hou: Very good idea. He's always had that big problem of not being tanky enough to fight well, this should help.

Scrat Tank: Still not sure if it's enough, but it's another step in the right direction. Perhaps king puff can make use of him.

Morgrul: Adding extra bodies to the field is extremely strong, and this comes with a decent tank for them too, and aoe damage. I get the feeling this guy is going to be a little too good at everything ground-related.

Brutus and Terror Brutus: Good change, always thought it weird that such a defining perk of Ravager was just so ignorable.

Healing Shrine: Step in the right direction. Still would like to see more healing decrease to this, since it's still probably going to be hopeless and wasteful to fight on the enemy side when they have this card.
Last edited by ICN | RushSecond; Feb 26 @ 7:10pm
Mr. Win Feb 26 @ 5:10pm 
Healing Shrine: Text still says it heals for 100 hp/s

Morgrul: Text doesn't say it spawns swarmers

Other: Combustion is bugged and does 0 dmg. Tested multiple times.

Prowler: Give a small health boost to 350? Also there was a part in one of my game Prowler couldn't pounce across the left-top corner of the bottom bridge.

Scale of Units: Before I go into this, just know that I wish the size changes weren't made. Hopefully some or most of it gets reverted since its awkward to play. Rammers is too big. The visual on Colossus attack seems like it should hit the units on the edge of the swipe, but it doesn't. Unlike the current version of Colossus which seems like it does (not too sure on this, only played Colossus twice). Blue Golem feels too small now. Scrats could be tone down a little.


PS: I only tested for about 20 mins or so
Ciunay_R Feb 26 @ 9:16pm 
I wanted to test again and:

i confirm that new colors are not bright enough, not to say depressing and soporific :steamsad: I like the current version of MM because it's funny and cute, and not dark.

The new camera is so and so. As i said it's too close and i don't like the new angle.

About the block of the bridges: yes it's useful to drop units with more accuracy but looks like there is something similar to a magnet effect that should be polished. In fact if you slowly move the cursor till the limit of the bridge, the unit makes a little step behind and it's not good see.
vango Feb 26 @ 10:11pm 
fps in game - 50+ fps in menu - 15 but feels like 1
StevenEven Feb 26 @ 10:55pm 
Originally posted by vango:
fps in game - 50+ fps in menu - 15 but feels like 1
Did you adjust your graphics settings? They are changed in the ptr
vango Feb 27 @ 4:15am 
Originally posted by StevenEven:
Originally posted by vango:
fps in game - 50+ fps in menu - 15 but feels like 1
Did you adjust your graphics settings? They are changed in the ptr
There are separate settings for the menu?
How do I access those?
I only changed the ones ingame.
Erythais  [developer] Feb 27 @ 4:27am 
Originally posted by vango:
Originally posted by StevenEven:
Did you adjust your graphics settings? They are changed in the ptr
There are separate settings for the menu?
How do I access those?
I only changed the ones ingame.

That's what Steven meant, probably. Anyway, we know the issue and are already working on a fix for that.
I play with Intel gpu in g3258. My problems are probably because of that...

Scale of units:
Especially with buildings it feels very crowded. Even one ratbo can fill whole screen kinda easily. I dont like it but I maybe could get used to it with time. I dont know yet, I will see after more playing with that.


Range & Aggro indicators:
Good, its evolution.


Sticky Placement:
I dont like jumping behavior around home tower. Move mouse slightly up and minions are above tower, few pixels down and placing jump in bottom. Again few pixel move and they slide somewhere around. I personally feel its more challenging to place units correctly under pressure (like incoming cleaver or something) and frustrating.

I like sticky behavior in any other place though.

I dont like graphic behavior when your mouse cursor is on opponent side and unit is unplaceable. Something like Ciunay_R wrote. Im used to use red unplaceable units like some kind of guiding crosshair on enemy side. When I do it in beta then white siluettes meddling on my half and I dont see any siluettes on opponents side.
Picture one (old version), picture two (beta).
https://imgur.com/dtvEV9z
https://imgur.com/1feGLA5

I feel some kind of mouse lag here when placing units. Like some older games with vsync on. Placement of units is floating after actual mouse. Nobody mentioned this here so I think this is bug too and I hope it will be fixed because this definately make game unenjoyable for me.


Buffs:
They seems good in overall. :bh:

Just Morgul feel too good for 4 mana.

Healing shrine I would prefer range decrease more but at least some change. Maybe it will work. I look forward to test it against real people someday.


---
Split mode screen is bugged too. Its very, very blurred. It looks little bit like stereoscopic 3D without glasses. Its not very apparent on screenshot though... Screen 3.
https://imgur.com/RcYyZFN

---
Another graphic bug - my bridges are full red/blue with some color soaking under a bridge. In your youtube video it looks fine so its very likely another bug. (I hope, I dont like full colored bridges at all.) Screen 4
https://imgur.com/funHk46

(I play on lowest ugly setting. But even with different settings (high) It looked the same.)

---
Bug which happens in current version too for some time. When I open ingame menu (with esc button) or with actual ingame button, my fps drops to like 2-3 fps and game is unplayable in fullcreen mode until I restart the game.
Erythais  [developer] Feb 27 @ 4:44am 
Originally posted by The_Terciele:
I play with Intel gpu in g3258. My problems are probably because of that...

Scale of units:
Especially with buildings it feels very crowded. Even one ratbo can fill whole screen kinda easily. I dont like it but I maybe could get used to it with time. I dont know yet, I will see after more playing with that.


Range & Aggro indicators:
Good, its evolution.


Sticky Placement:
I dont like jumping behavior around home tower. Move mouse slightly up and minions are above tower, few pixels down and placing jump in bottom. Again few pixel move and they slide somewhere around. I personally feel its more challenging to place units correctly under pressure (like incoming cleaver or something) and frustrating.

I like sticky behavior in any other place though.

I dont like graphic behavior when your mouse cursor is on opponent side and unit is unplaceable. Something like Ciunay_R wrote. Im used to use red unplaceable units like some kind of guiding crosshair on enemy side. When I do it in beta then white siluettes meddling on my half and I dont see any siluettes on opponents side.
Picture one (old version), picture two (beta).
https://imgur.com/dtvEV9z
https://imgur.com/1feGLA5

I feel some kind of mouse lag here when placing units. Like some older games with vsync on. Placement of units is floating after actual mouse. Nobody mentioned this here so I think this is bug too and I hope it will be fixed because this definately make game unenjoyable for me.


Buffs:
They seems good in overall. :bh:

Just Morgul feel too good for 4 mana.

Healing shrine I would prefer range decrease more but at least some change. Maybe it will work. I look forward to test it against real people someday.


---
Split mode screen is bugged too. Its very, very blurred. It looks little bit like stereoscopic 3D without glasses. Its not very apparent on screenshot though... Screen 3.
https://imgur.com/RcYyZFN

---
Another graphic bug - my bridges are full red/blue with some color soaking under a bridge. In your youtube video it looks fine so its very likely another bug. (I hope, I dont like full colored bridges at all.) Screen 4
https://imgur.com/funHk46

(I play on lowest ugly setting. But even with different settings (high) It looked the same.)

---
Bug which happens in current version too for some time. When I open ingame menu (with esc button) or with actual ingame button, my fps drops to like 2-3 fps and game is unplayable in fullcreen mode until I restart the game.

Could you tell me the exact PTR game version this reports are about? Is it 60.5 or the earlier version 60.3?

And could you also send us the output log? It has to be before you’ve restarted the game.

You’ll find it in
Steam library > right-click Minion Masters > Properties > Local files > Browse Local files > MinionMasters_Data
It’s called output_log.txt

Please send it to support@betadwarf.com and add a link to this thread in the mail :)
Last edited by Erythais; Feb 27 @ 4:47am
Oh, my mistake. I didnt noticed of the new beta version. I wrote about 60.3 but it seems that everything behave same for me in 60.5. I downloaded beta 60.5 (I returned to normal version meanwhile) then I played game against AI then I send output log. You got it on that support email.
Erythais  [developer] Feb 27 @ 7:14am 
Originally posted by The_Terciele:
Oh, my mistake. I didnt noticed of the new beta version. I wrote about 60.3 but it seems that everything behave same for me in 60.5. I downloaded beta 60.5 (I returned to normal version meanwhile) then I played game against AI then I send output log. You got it on that support email.

Thank you very much!
Range of units:
Range of units should not be increased. It should be reverted back to original. Its too much for some like Laser Turret, Bounty Sniper, Styxi, etc.

Scale of units:
Changing scaling seems fine to me but only as long as it does not affect any of the mechanism of the game.

Range & Aggro indicators:
Thats a great thing in this update. The arrow indicator can be made more visible though but it was a much needed feature.

Sticky Placement:
The best thing in this update is this. No need to change it.

General Look:
General look is improved. I liked it. Especially the brightened bridges, daggerfall animations and many other small yet noticeable things. Its a plus point.

Prowler:
Prowler change seems a little unbalanced to me. It should be reverted back. May be I haven't played much with and against it but it seems a little unbalanced.

Scrat Tank:
Scrat tank is smurfed too much. It is hard to be encountered now. I think this change must be reverted.

Healing Shrine:
Healing shrine nerf is fine. It was too OP. It is a balanced change.

Other:
Settsu jump bug is there. If we take the marker out of the field then it turns red which means we should not be able to jump but clicking on it makes Settsu jump out of the field which may make it invincible depending upon the range of the master as minions won't be able to attack it. The screenshots of this are:

https://i.imgur.com/lpM04us.jpg
https://i.imgur.com/h3RYAH8.jpg
https://i.imgur.com/Y19uCVZ.jpg
https://i.imgur.com/eRcrOVC.jpg
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