Agony
Agony > Censorship > Topic Details
Oscillations May 31, 2018 @ 12:37pm
Results of Reddit Censorship Q&A
Since it is easy to get lost in a sea of text and replies on Reddit, I will post the questions that the devs answered, along with their answers. I'll leave out questions not regarding censorship, since this was the original purpose of the Q&A. I will also leave out repeat answers that the devs seem to have copy/pasted.

At this time, devs have not responded to further questions of their responses.

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Why the game models of female demons get so downgraded and apparently ♥♥♥♥♥♥s and butts were censored to a point of nonexistent while we have ♥♥♥♥♥ swinging at our faces from the ceilings? Why the models look so much worse than in DEMO released last year? Where is the demon sex scene? So far i see only some succubuses kissing each others or eating some guys, where is the demons SEX scene that were promoted so much? Where is the titidemon ♥♥♥♥ scene from the story trailer?

1.The models are the same as in the demo, we did not change them.

2.The only character who had a ♥♥♥♥♥♥ - on the texture, is a succubus. Unfortunately, you can not play ♥♥♥♥♥♥s on female characters without AO rating. You can show male genitalia.

♥♥♥♥♥♥s are in the game - on the prohibited fruits (skill point), on many enviro elements.

3. In the game, there was never the possibility of seeing the ♥♥♥♥♥♥ before finishing the game. The succubus model appeared only as a background object and in cutscenes. It can be viewed only after passing the game, and after unlocking the model in 3D viewer. Things that were drawn from the game content, from the demos, it's not something that was possible to see in the demo, during normal play.

4. In the game there are sex scenes with the succubus, just unlock all the endings of the game

5. We did not change any other model - we censored nothing but the ♥♥♥♥♥♥ of the succubus.


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What is the nature of the legal blockage of the adult patch? Where does it originate from?

Also, who determined which scenes/content to censor, and how did the submission of these changes affect the legal position the Dev team is in now?


1. We tried to find a way out to publish this patch, but as the cut content was well known to censors and distributors, the issue of this patch, even as a leak or mod, would be immediately related to us and the game would be withdrawn from the stores as a product players can find a patch that violates the rating rules.

2. If the game does not get a rating of 18, only higher, it can not be spent on consoles.These are the rights of distributors. If we break them, we would not be able to fulfill the promise given to the backers.


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I noticed that the bricklayer scene was heavily altered.

I couldn’t care less about the purple blood, however in the demo you could see bodies worshipping some kind of alter behind him.

Why was this removed? Was it a design choice? It Kind of feels like it was removed to make it darker and less graphic.

The day you signed up with the publisher did you know you would never be able to released and uncensored patch or was it a last minute decision from the publishers?

I’m really enjoying the game none the less but I can’t help but feel your original vision and approach was cut, turning the game into something generic.

Edit: link to the scene

https://ibb.co/c3mUtJ


The scene with the bricklayer has not been censored. We changed the background so that it would fit better into one of the endings of the game - madman ending. There you can see the scene from the perspective of the FPP, with red blood. Purple blood is an artistic procedure, not censorship. We decided that it suits the location in which the scene played better. Just see madman ending- there is the same scene with red blood.

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Long story short: this whole PR blunder and damage control is suspicious.

Your leverage on crowdfunding was emphatically given by a declaration of morbidity and deviance. The game was literally sold on this premise, enforced by the statement to bypass publishers in order to keep full creative control. Did you NOT expect to get AO from boards?

True, we all forget that there are distributors and platforms, not only publishers. The console maket promises much greater returns, but imposes restrictions exactly on the kind of content you were selling.

It would have been understandable then to prepare a toned down version for consoles. Console owners should be aware of the policies of Sony and Microsoft, after all. So let's get back to PC. Digital distribution for PC is usually not affected by ratings (afaik Steam does not even require a rating); only physical stores refuse AO games. But let's assume Valve is edgy. What to do?

Submitting two different versions for rating means paying full price twice; submitting one version only and then a patch for PC can solve the situation. You promised a patch

The day before release you announce the patch cannot happen. (Besides, censorship goes beyond your official statement and there is a considerable visual downgrade.)

Now, there are PLENTY of games with OFFICIAL patches restoring everything from anatomy to disturbing sex scenes. How come Agony is the only exception? What is different?

Circumventing the rating? All those games apparently do. Unless, perhaps they are already AO. And again, why did you not expect AO??? Why not preparing two versions for different platforms?

Maintaining M rating for sales or under... steam pressure? Assuming Valve would complain, why not try GOG? In the end, once again, why market as AO and then go for M?

Giving an edge against consoles? Did you really sign a contract requesting for the same version on all platforms despite the obvious difference in policies?

... Did you simply do the math, sacrificing PC to consoles? Console users are in greater number and will probably never know about this story, after all.

is all of this an incredible stunt or what?


The contract with the publishers did not allow us to make the Adult Only version. We could not do anything about it. Violation of these laws would cause huge financial penalties, which would result in immediate closure of the company and the game would not have been issued. Without publishers - the production process would be interrupted and the game would not appear.We are in talks with GOG. If they agree, Agony will be released on this platform in a version with all patches and without censorship, with official AO rating.

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Would someone from your team consider "leaking" the uncensored patch anonymously through a torrent site? Obviously not the full game, just the patch needed to play the game how it was intended.

Of course. We even tried to do it as a mod - but it does not matter how this content would leak to the internet - it would be Madmind's fault, and we would get huge financial penalties.

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When was the final status on the censorship known, and what measures were taken to inform the backers?

If it was only known at the very moment of release (which seems unlikely), why did it take so long to know, and why were backers not kept up to date more frequently?

If a general picture of the necessary censorship was known before release, why did you continue to release statements promising a fully uncensored product up until release?


1. Until the end, we tried to negotiate how much we can show without getting a ban

2. We were not sure what content we could negotiate - we fought for them until the very end.

3. We tried to find a way out to publish this patch, but as the cut content was well known to censors and distributors, the issue of this patch, even as a leak or mod, would be immediately related to us and the game would be withdrawn from the stores as a product players can find a patch that violates the rating rules.


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Why do we have to rely on someone who won a contest to have the cut content revealed? Will you give any of the questions asked here a straight answer? Your communications involving this subject have been extremely vague so far, is this thread a wast of our time?

It was never about any streamer. We just didn't wanted to spoil the endings before a bigger amount of players finishes the game. After such a massive response from our community, we decided to speed it up. You can watch the video right now :) https://youtu.be/2c2XUY256VY

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Why does the forbidden fruit have such a nicely modelled ♥♥♥♥♥♥ still on it but the demon girls can't have there's anymore?

There are ♥♥♥♥♥♥s in many places. However, adding it to the female character model - realistic, immediately gives AO rating

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The big issue I have is being told there would be a patch for the game, and then right before release you tell us there isn't one. That's pretty ♥♥♥♥ed up, and I lost all interest in this game. It isn't even a matter of content at this point, it's a matter of principle.

We couldn't do it without the whole studio being shut and Agony being removed from shops.

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I am curious about the Design changes, such as the purple blood for the Infant Demons.

I think the issue was the "No Patch" was a bombshell right before release. After playing the game this all seems blown out of proportion, I am assuming the ending is just a Demon getting a money shot or something of the like.

Game can be frustratingly difficult. However I enjoyed it, thanks for your hard work.


Purple blood is an artistic procedure, not censorship. We decided that it suits the location in which the scene played better. Just see madman ending- there is the same scene with red blood.

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Why on earth would you agree to console publisher terms when you've got such a nakedly, pardon the pun, unworkable title for that framework?

I am...literally just holding off on a purchase until a patch or something becomes available. This isn't acceptable. I'm sick of the censorious crap.


We promised to play our backers on consoles so we had to find a publisher who would agree to release the game on consoles. We also knew that everything we show in the promotional materials would stay in the game.

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You say you can't publish the uncensored content because of lawsuit and getting banned... HOWEVER you also say you are in talks with GOG about selling it there....uncensored.

I'd like an explanation to that, since you say even a patch or EVEN A LEAK would put you in danger,

I'd also like to know IF this happens, will the steam owners get free access to the GOG game or would we have to buy it all over again?
Context:

It does not matter how this content would leak to the internet - it would be Madmind's fault, and we would get huge financial penalties.

and

We are in talks with GOG. If they agree, Agony will be released on this platform in a version with all patches and without censorship.

Please explain?


It would be an AO rated game. Not a patch to it only.

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Question:

Exactly what content did you edit/remove that you did not disclose?

i.e. you stated the censorship only affects several seconds of 2/7 ending and some bonus scenes, but the content you cut/edited goes beyond this. What other content did you alter that the end user would not know about?


There is nothing else besides the things mentioned in our announcement. If you can show us some materials, please do it. Otherwise it's hard to discuss...

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What about the contract specifically forbade releasing a patch on PC, especially considering that up until the last few days, it was insisted by the developers that there would be one?

The agreement with the publishers did not allow us to make the Adult Only version. We could not do anything about it. Violation of these laws would cause huge financial penalties, which would result in immediate closure of the company and the game would not have been issued. Without publishers - the production process would be interrupted, and the game would not appear. We were fighting for it till the last minute, but there was nothing more we could do...

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Will you address the censorship and if not will you at least give the game mod support so the community can do it themselves?

We can't do anything about the censorship. Mods are possible in the future though...

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Could the patch be accidentally leaked for pc?

It does not matter how this content would leak to the internet - it would be Madmind's fault, and we would get huge financial penalties.

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Hi,

There is the possibility that the uncensored patch will come at least in the future, also as a paid DLC or that the game will come in another website like GOG as a director's cut/uncensored AO rated version ? There were other censored games then released in an uncensored version such as Manhunt 2, Leisure Suit Larry Magna ♥♥♥ Laude, Fahrenheit indigo prophecy and many others.


There is no option we could release the patch. We are talking with GOG about possibilities. If they say yes, we will launch the uncut version there, rated AO.

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Random question about nipples

It's only her design. This character was never to have nipples. It is not censored.
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Showing 1-15 of 74 comments
KING-TYPO May 31, 2018 @ 1:00pm 
well that settles it ill buy this game on GOG. steam can go fly a kite. GOG i know you will not ♥♥♥♥ this up cause your better than steam is.
HeeroG May 31, 2018 @ 1:06pm 
The thing is, steam has other AO games...
So obviously steam is not really the problem...
This GOG thing dosn't make too much sense...
Phobos May 31, 2018 @ 1:08pm 
So next question: (let's pretend its on gog as AO)

1) I am an original backer - do I get the gog for free?
2) Someone started on steam (same impression as no1 about AO Patch) - do they get the gog for free?
Last edited by Phobos; May 31, 2018 @ 1:10pm
Tracido May 31, 2018 @ 1:09pm 
Originally posted by HeeroG:
The thing is, steam has other AO games...
So obviously steam is not really the problem...
This GOG thing dosn't make too much sense...

I think this is a loohole, by releasing a new version elsewhere it's another game, some vendors have even changed the names of titles to do this and get around contracts..

By all means correct me if wrong.
HeeroG May 31, 2018 @ 1:13pm 
Originally posted by Tracido:
Originally posted by HeeroG:
The thing is, steam has other AO games...
So obviously steam is not really the problem...
This GOG thing dosn't make too much sense...

I think this is a loohole, by releasing a new version elsewhere it's another game, some vendors have even changed the names of titles to do this and get around contracts..

By all means correct me if wrong.

You're right.
But that creates more problems tho...
I'm pretty sure in the end people who already got it here and can't refund no more will have to buy again there.
And i doubt they'll will do anything about it, since they ignored the dude who questioned this on the Q&A. S
I feel for those people...
D Kruger May 31, 2018 @ 2:22pm 
I want my succubus vaginа!
CrEaToXx May 31, 2018 @ 2:26pm 
Well devs, guess what. Someone will mod and patch this game, and then you're pretty much screwed, right? At least according to your arguments. It will happen, I hope you understand that?
Last edited by CrEaToXx; May 31, 2018 @ 2:27pm
robomagon May 31, 2018 @ 2:34pm 
"This video is unavailable"
Tracido May 31, 2018 @ 2:36pm 
Originally posted by HeeroG:
I feel for those people...

Me, too.
AndrejDelaney May 31, 2018 @ 2:47pm 
Originally posted by Tracido:
Originally posted by HeeroG:
The thing is, steam has other AO games...
So obviously steam is not really the problem...
This GOG thing dosn't make too much sense...

I think this is a loohole, by releasing a new version elsewhere it's another game, some vendors have even changed the names of titles to do this and get around contracts..

By all means correct me if wrong.
Why not release something like "Agony - Uncut Edition or Hell Edition or whatever you want to call it" as a new product on Steam then, if that's how things work? Look at Dark Souls Remastered for example that is being sold as a new product? The same with Dark Souls 2.
I don't get it.
Last edited by AndrejDelaney; May 31, 2018 @ 2:49pm
starfarts May 31, 2018 @ 2:51pm 
Talk about canned responses. What do they think, the Polish FBI is just going to pull up, raid their offices, and burn the building down if they release a patch? "IMMEDIATE CLOSURE" is hilarious as that's what they say as a response every time they're cornered by their own deceit.

They promised A for years. Days before launched they said A was no longer possible and gave us B, while citing C as a reason. We all know it's BS and that they pulled a Sean Murray. It's not about "le edgy demon tiddies," it's about the fact they sold the premise as a demon tiddie game then withdrew the demon tiddies right before launch.
CrEaToXx May 31, 2018 @ 3:15pm 
Originally posted by starfarts:
Talk about canned responses. What do they think, the Polish FBI is just going to pull up, raid their offices, and burn the building down if they release a patch? "IMMEDIATE CLOSURE" is hilarious as that's what they say as a response every time they're cornered by their own deceit.

They promised A for years. Days before launched they said A was no longer possible and gave us B, while citing C as a reason. We all know it's BS and that they pulled a Sean Murray. It's not about "le edgy demon tiddies," it's about the fact they sold the premise as a demon tiddie game then withdrew the demon tiddies right before launch.

They're just afraid for their jobs. Someone obviously put pressure on them. Maybe they have family. Nothing a solitude cellar dwelling game consumer understands, right? But still, they should have poured in clear water, about how a release on Steam would enforce certain censorship mechanics. You can't show it all. And if you want to enforce it, people will shut the door, and then you'd have no release at all.

Wait some days. There will be a patch/mod...I'm certain. Censored games are a speciality for modders. Even if Agony doesn't have a huge community to back the game. It's a code of honour for modders to break censorship...:)
Last edited by CrEaToXx; May 31, 2018 @ 3:16pm
zombie-flesheater May 31, 2018 @ 3:17pm 
Originally posted by AndrejDelaney:
Originally posted by Tracido:

I think this is a loohole, by releasing a new version elsewhere it's another game, some vendors have even changed the names of titles to do this and get around contracts..

By all means correct me if wrong.
Why not release something like "Agony - Uncut Edition or Hell Edition or whatever you want to call it" as a new product on Steam then, if that's how things work? Look at Dark Souls Remastered for example that is being sold as a new product? The same with Dark Souls 2.
I don't get it.

Not if - and that's probably the case - the publisher holds any and all distribution rights for steam.
AndrejDelaney May 31, 2018 @ 3:51pm 
Originally posted by zombie-flesheater:
Originally posted by AndrejDelaney:
Why not release something like "Agony - Uncut Edition or Hell Edition or whatever you want to call it" as a new product on Steam then, if that's how things work? Look at Dark Souls Remastered for example that is being sold as a new product? The same with Dark Souls 2.
I don't get it.

Not if - and that's probably the case - the publisher holds any and all distribution rights for steam.
If that's the case why isn't PlayWay (the publisher for Agony according to the kickstarter page and their own webpage) listed as publisher on Steam then? Check the Agony store front if you don't believe me. You can even check the portfolio of this publisher on Steam (just search "PlayWay" and you'll get a list of their published games) and - again - Agony isn't listed.
KING-TYPO May 31, 2018 @ 4:34pm 
i have a copy of the video cause i knew youtube would kill iti could link it to one drive but i dont know if i woudl get busted here on steam for providing a link to it or not
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