VC - some general gameplay questions

[Brick Slayer]

1) Is ranged combat any good at all? I'm trying to use a bow yet the best one I could find was named "Strong Elite Bow" or something with a power draw requirement of just 5. The sad thing is that I put 8 points into Power Draw and have a proficiency of around 250 yet it hardly does any damage... I know that bows in the early viking age were less advanced than, say, 400 years into the future when the english started using proper longbows but it's a bit ridiculous how shooting a peasent in the head sometimes doesn't even kill him.. I heard people say that VC strives to be somewhat realistic, so does this mean that people in the dark ages were immune to headshots?

And for this matter, which faction has the best archers? Because unlike I expected, the Britons don't seem to have particularly strong ranged troops, so I'm thinking about Norse Archers perhaps being the best?

I understand why you would want to nerf it so it's not possible to be the ultimate killing machine with a bow like in native or mods, but this is not even nerfing anymore. This is more like passively forcing the game balance into melee, and melee only.
For this matter, are crossbows or throwing weapons any better? Because to me it seems like ranged combat is somewhat useless in VC, considering they even somehow managed to make throwing weapons worse than they were in native, as you can mostly only throwing spears in pairs of 2, instead of the usual 4 or 5 like native.

2) Are mercenaries better than in other mods, or am I supposed to recruit prisoners that I've taken into my army? Because levelling peasents up normally seems pretty painful to me. I like how this game is a lot more realistic at levelling, where you can't just get 80 Nord Huscarls in an hour, but this is so slow that it makes me wonder if there are other ways of reliably getting troops other than levelling.
Right now I'm thinking about knocking some Vikingrs and Ship captains from bandit parties unconscious and recruiting them into my army, since I'm a pagan too and they seem like somewhat strong troops

3) Is it worth buying a ship or should I continue investing into enterprises? What I'm particularly interested in, do bandit parties on sea tend to have better loot than those on land, and is it possible to take over enemy ships and sell them at a dock, considering I have the "sea king" skill at 4?

4) And lastly, is the Sea King skill normally capped at 4? It would make sense that you can't have more ships in your fleet than the British navy at the height of its power and the american fleet combined, but is it normal that I can't get more than 4x Sea King, considering I have Charisma at 14?

[Tuidjy]

I was not offended by the 'trolling' comment, just surprised. But it was a simple misunderstanding anyway, so I am glad it is resolved.

As for troops with the 'good sailor' property, I learned something as well. I have always used warrior archers for fast sailing, so I did not know that all high tier Norse were good at it.

I will still stick to warrior archers for privateering. With all the free quiver reloads, they do shine in naval engagements.

[the smoking mค็็็็็n]

svear warriors are the exception,but i believe that is because although they may be pagan,they are ofc not norse

when you win a field battle against an enemy lord you get trophies
you can take those to town markets and use them to increase your relations with towns,they will also give you money and party exp depending on the lvl of the trophy (there are 3 lvls of trophy)

but you can also just sell them to any shop
T was saying not to do that

[Brick Slayer]

Originally posted by the smoking mค็็็็็n:

svear warriors are the exception,but i believe that is because although they may be pagan,they are ofc not norse

when you win a field battle against an enemy lord you get trophies
you can take those to town markets and use them to increase your relations with towns,they will also give you money and party exp depending on the lvl of the trophy (there are 3 lvls of trophy)

but you can also just sell them to any shop
T was saying not to do that

Oh ok, yeah I was confused by the statement of trophies after battles, I thought this would apply to all battles and not just lordly battles and that I was missing something. I've not defeated any lords yet and have instead only been killing bandits so far, so that explains a lot indeed

[Bucketsmith]

I went and gathered some Norse peasants, trained them up to second tier, as archers. They were not giving me 'the sailor speed bonus'. Just to confirm the bonus only starts from tier 3.

Originally posted by Turkish person:

Originally posted by the smoking mค็็็็็n:

svear warriors are the exception,but i believe that is because although they may be pagan,they are ofc not norse

when you win a field battle against an enemy lord you get trophies
you can take those to town markets and use them to increase your relations with towns,they will also give you money and party exp depending on the lvl of the trophy (there are 3 lvls of trophy)

but you can also just sell them to any shop
T was saying not to do that

Oh ok, yeah I was confused by the statement of trophies after battles, I thought this would apply to all battles and not just lordly battles and that I was missing something. I've not defeated any lords yet and have instead only been killing bandits so far, so that explains a lot indeed

He's just got poor wording in that reply. Whether or not you get a battle trophy from a battle depends on its size, not on a lord being present.
http://mountandblade.wikia.com/wiki/Battle_Trophy

Battle Trophies are a feature in Viking Conquest. The player character can earn these trophies from winning large scale (100+ enemies) battles as loot.

These can be sold to the goods merchant for peningas or to the special vendor. The option to redeem battle trophies is available whenever the player has a trophy and visits a town. By selecting this option, the trophies can be traded for much more money and experience.

You can sell them, the rewards are in that table.
What Tjuidgy is talking about is an option too, where you save them to increase your standing with 'the other' religion than your own.

[the smoking mค็็็็็n]

1.yep,only starts at T3
2.not really,but i guess i did leave that out,but there will have to be a lord present
edit:that seems incorrect also,just bothered to test this as i have not played for some time,i got my trophy from beating a lord with just 32 men,got nothing from a rebel fight with 124 men,the only chance i see is the lvl of trophy
3.thats just incorrect,find yourself a new wiki

[Bucketsmith]

Originally posted by the smoking mค็็็็็n:

1.yep,only starts at T3
2.not really,but i guess i did leave that out,but there will have to be a lord present
3.thats just incorrect,find yourself a new wiki

Stop being such an ass, man. Not every thread has to go down that route.

On-topic, I trust the wiki more than I trust you, after the many thread I've seen you derail.
The chance of a battle being large enough without it being one with a lord is small until you hit high levels. And I assume the drop is not guaranteed, but a chance. That further lowers the chance you can find one outside of battles with lords.
From a different angle; a battle with a lord but less than 100 people will not grant you a trophy.

You wanna refute that, fine, but stop being an ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ and come up with some useable data. :)

[the smoking mค็็็็็n]

..
i don't care what you trust

[Tuidjy]

I know for a fact that you can get a level 1 trophy from a fight without a lord, and that you can get level 2 and 3 trophies from fights with a lord and less than 100 troops.

Well, you could last year. I do not think it is important enough to test right now.

[the smoking mค็็็็็n]

yeah,that's still right
lvl 2-3 are handed straight to inventory regardless of how fight-end is handled
lvl 1 you can get from any old fight,but you have to take a share from the loot for them,they are never deposited in inventory,not worth much anyway,and don't add town relation boosts
i'm just a bit sick of fighting with this bucketsmith,and never really feel the need to explain myself anyway,especially to the likes of ..

[Tuidjy]

I think that the "level 1 trophy" is just loot dropped by all bannerman type units. As for level 2 and 3 trophies, I think those are tied to lords, and more or less random. I have gotten level 3s from small fights, and level 2s from big fights. It is important to have free slots for them, or you will lose them.

And, the smoking mค็็็็็n, I do not think that Bucketsmith is actively trying to sabotage the conversation. Some people just react poorly to very self-assertive posts. You guys are both trying to get to the bottom of trophy mechanics, and it's best for everyone if you work together.

There exist аssноlеs who need to be driven from the forums, but none in this thread.

[the smoking mค็็็็็n]

and yes,that is exactly how i have seen the trophies appear to work
a free slot ofc will be needed for them
and i suppose i could have pointed out that lvl 1 trophies bore no relation to what you were trying to explain in the first place
also none off the trophies have any relation to religion

[White Knight]

As usual, I don't have any specific details about how the game works, but here's what they mean to me in my games:

Battle trophies are given out upon victory against a worthy opponent.

The lowest kind of trophy is one that offers no relations bonus, etc., just gold. So, I sell all of those off at markets.

The rest can be traded in at a city and used for boosting relations and honour or whatever. That's what I use all of my trophies for. I save them up and then cash them in at a new city of mine, so I can improve the relations more rapidly.

The number of trophies can vary. Part of it is random since the same fight between the same forces can yield a different number. Part of it seems to be tied to the relative sizes of the forces (although this could be relative wealth, etc. just as well?), and part of it has to do with how recently you have defeated that enemy lord. If I beat the same lord several times over a short period, the number of trophies will drop each time.

Testing this would be difficult since there are several factors that easily mimic one another (strength/size/wealth/victories, etc.)

No doubt renown would factor into it as well?

All I know is that I value high-end trophies above all else (even food). The cheap kind are still better than most loot but I would leave them behind for my men under the worst of circumstances. They are worth more to me in terms of rapid relations boosts (with a city), then they ever could be as gold.

Oh, and the last thing about trophies is that I always feel short-changed. It is a cheap game that way.

Also, for the smoking man, are you sure about all T3+ Norse units being counted as sailors for the at-sea speed bonus? I knew it was "various Norse units" but I had no idea it was something so specific that applied to them all?

[the smoking mค็็็็็n]

yep,it is something i had a bit of a test about back when i was doing my king playthrough effort attempts
here's some vikingr for example
http://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=1179379712
http://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=1179379907
i went through units,and what they had in common were that they were T3 and above and norse
the only surprise was svear warriors,as i was expecting them to be marked norse,but only because of thier get-up,makes sense that they are not really,and there are plenty of other non-norse pagan troops

[White Knight]

Fascinating, thanks.

I just loaded up my last game to check it out and what you said makes sense. I had 64 sailors who only gave me +8% (I really oughta whip them more often). I went through my army list and my Norse Spearmen brought me to 64 Norse troops (not including Svear Warriors) and the rest were below T3 and weren't counted.

I'll have to update my guide with this improved information.

[Bucketsmith]

Barring the smoking ♥♥♥♥ , that's some useful contribution and information! Thank you two!