Ball 3D: Soccer Online

Ball 3D: Soccer Online

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Unusualsoft  [developer] Aug 30 @ 1:23pm
Sprint
Why was sprint added to the game and why the old community doesn't like it.

Ball 3D has been created to simulate the soccer experience. Being able to sprint when you need is a crucial part of soccer, everyone who ever played soccer in real life should know this.

I am constantly trying to improve the Ball 3D gameplay, some changes turned to be good and some turned to be not so good and have been removed according to community requests or me seeing that something is not working as I intended.

Why Sprint has been added?

To make the game more attractive to new players and to make the gameplay more deep and less predictable, less stiff, more dynamic.

When the game was released for the first time in 2012, it was not possible to curve the ball. The gameplay was very predictable and very stiff. After I have added the curve, first reaction of many players were negative. They asked my why am I breaking the game. Players were forced to learn curving so they had no choice, they learned and after some time they loved the feature.

Then I have added vertical kick - and we had exactly the same situation. People told me I am breaking the game.

Then I have added a switch trick - same story, people were unhappy about my decision, but since they were forced to play with it, they eventually have seen this as something useful and good.

Sprint was a big change too, but this time I decided to not force the old community to play with it. As a player who plays the game since 2012 I understand why people may not like changes in the gameplay. Many players have been learning their skill for years and they can play Ball 3D at a very high level, without even thinking too much about it. This is a very fun thing to do, when you can play a game at a very high level and do not think about every move, because it is automatic. People like this.

When I introduced the sprint feature, I have disturbed this state for these players. Suddenly they are forced to learn a new skill. They felt like they are the masters of the game, they know every move and strategy. They have invested time into mastering things and suddenly there is something they are not good at. They would have to learn again and make mistakes in the process.

When I told about the sprint on facebook, I have already seen negative reactions. People were strongly against this change without even trying it. So it confirms what I am saying here and what I have seen over the years with other features I have introduced: people don't like changes to the gameplay they know and love.

My job as the gamedev is to make the game better and to make sure this game will exist. I have noticed many new players complaining about the game being way too slow for a soccer game. And I agree that it is quite slow. So the first reason behind the sprint was to solve this problem.

The second reason was to solve the problem of player chasing. In the past in Ball 3D when you were chasing the other players, it was not possible to chase. You could go after him, but your speed was always the same, so you were just wasting your time. It was a big problem, but I was among the few people who were bothered by this to be honest. I have not heard others to complain, but I decided to fix this anyway. The solution was to make the player slower when it is close to the ball. The problem of this was that suddenly the game became even slower and the kicks a bit weaker too because of the initial speed of the ball.

The sprint is a better solution. Now chasing is a whole new story. Depending on the situation and the state of your sprint bar, you may chase or not. It's similar like in real life soccer. If you are tired you will not be able to chase the other player.

Why sprint is making the Ball 3D gameplay better?

So I have already mentioned 2 good reasons why I added the sprint: to make the game faster and more dynamic and to solve the problem of chasing. Here are some other good reasons why sprint is good:

- You can use it to lose the player who is covering you and go behind his back to create a hole, your teammate can use to pass you.
- You can use the sprint to position yourself on the field better and faster.
- You can use it to cover the striker better when you are defending.
- You can use it to shoot more powerful shots.
- You can use it as a GK to defend better.
- In 3v3 on Classic when your team was at the defense, and the opponent GK had the ball, 99% of the time attacking the GK was a mistake. It was better to just wait for him and eventually attack him when he was on our side of the field. With sprint this is now much more complicated and teams can use sprint to invent a whole new category of defending strategies.
- Sprint makes the BUS strategy less effective, because you can use it to mess with the defenders more and be more deceptive + your GK can shoot a bit more powerful shots and he can move faster.
- Managing the sprint to maximize its full potential is a whole new skill. You have to decide if you want to use it now or maybe it would be better to wait a bit. Should you use it all of it or just a bit? What is the current state of sprint of your teammates and your opponent? Should you try to posses the ball a bit longer to let your sprint regenerate?

Along with the sprint I have introduced a new switch trick, that lets you dribble better and make much more dynamic moves.

Both the sprint and the switch trick are nicely balanced and the sprint also work differently on every stadium, depending on its size.

Sprint is adding so much more to the gameplay, why most of the old community do not like this?

The reasons:
- As I already mentioned people are not willing to learn new things. Some are afraid that they will not master it. Some are afraid to lose because they are yet not so good at using the new skills. Some just liked the state of being very good at the game without the sprint and they don't want this to be changed.
- Many people (especially young) do not have their own opinion. They follow the opinion of others without checking the facts. If the leaders of the community or people older than them will say the sprint is bad, they will follow, because they see these people as authorities.
- Some people like the sprint, but are afraid to say their opinion because their friends may laugh at them or isolate them from their group.
- Some people like the sprint but they will not play it because there is not enough people to play with using sprint and there are no leagues or tournaments, so it makes no sense to learn this new skill.

This is my point of view. If you think the sprint breaks the gameplay of Ball 3D, press the Reply button and tell me why you think so. But do this only if you are intelligent enough to discuss with me using high quality arguments. Other posts will be removed. People trying to spread hate will be banned, so I don't do this please.

I hope to hear some valuable opinion and start some interesting discussion, without emotions. Let's just discuss the facts to make the game we love better.
Last edited by Unusualsoft; Aug 31 @ 1:46am
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Showing 1-8 of 8 comments
I never said that Sprint is bad,its very nice for new Players and nice to play with them in this Mode.But the Sprint now is bad.You cant teach them good skills,passes.dribblings and also saves.The Team spirit in Sprint gets also bad.The Sprint Power is also lame.Thats why i searched with "newbies" some Ideas to play it in a better way.
I wanna share my "Opinions how you could be better in Sprint"
The Sprint Timing: Many users just press the Sprint permanent,thats why you canr get always the ball,But that is wrong! If the ball is much away from you,then time your Sprint by "low-spamming" the "Sprint Button" and you get a lil better Chance to get the Ball faster.
The Team spirit: The Maps are very small to play them with Sprint.I rather you guys,to play like the normal Setting with -1 Player each Team (For Ex. Real Football in 4v4,Classic in 2v2,Sprint in 3v3.) If you do this then you can continue playing Ball3D strategically,no you will need to strategically in this way (as i said over) more than even in Expert Rooms (So i dont wanna hear "In Sprint you cant play like a profi")
A Shoot situation:
If you do a Sprint with your shoot then it only helps if you shot straigh,never use it as curve shot because its not good to controll it.
Passing with Sprint:
So passing is something whats in all ways the same thing,so i cant tell you something good,except that "Sprint-Passing" never should to be use,if you pass then controll it,its a better assist because a "Sprint-Pass" is hard to get and controll it to shoot,but if you do it just for a Pass then you could use it 😉
I could say a lot more but its better to show it "in-game".

Edit: I still like the "out dated" Version more but i like to play both variants.Im thankful that you didnt delete the old one and share it into 2 Categories ❤️

Im training other "newbies" at saturday 15:30 If you wanna get also a lesson then come or write me on discord.
_WhiteChicken_#0001
Last edited by _WhiteChicken_; Aug 30 @ 1:46pm
Crossbay Aug 30 @ 3:27pm 
I think the 3D ball still needs a better dribble, the shift a / d was the solution was one of the best updates, the sprint also makes the dribble of the new sprint not very good when you pull the ball, you could have a pull on place of that dribbling, I used the sprint mode I thought it was really cool, it was a good update, to create new moves, just that you need to improve a little more on the issue of "dribbling" this is my opinion

in the question of beginners, I think you could create a script, which allows players new to the game, not to be kicked or banned.

game since 2017
Last edited by Crossbay; Aug 30 @ 3:28pm
Sprint is a good idea, I always wanted sprint in ball3d. But it should be a more exclusive skill. For example 3 sprints per half and 5 for the "Pro".

It would also be a good idea if it takes a lot longer to load and the sprint line gets shorter with use.
heim Aug 30 @ 6:15pm 
Talking about 5vs5 normal vs Sprint
Things bad about the Sprint:
Too fast, u can very fast reach a player that just receive the ball by just sprint towards him without him being able do to something, because the sprint value is almost the same to the ball speed value(normal pass), the ball was to always travell way faster than the players, than this lets us go with this problems:
-IF u have a striker alone in the front u pass him the ball, the GK sprint towards him, giving him no chance of reaction
-Sprint makes u shoot faster, if u receive a strong pass and shoot with sprint, gk doesnt any chance of reaction, the ball just goes too fast
-U just move too fast with sprint, i think sprint should be like a litle extra speed for short espaces, like get in front of a player by using the sprint of the right time, and not just by spam the sprint run to the other player while he still waiting for the ball to come
Talking about 3vs3 normal vs Sprint
Kinda agree with you, having the ball doest reward you, teams just camped in front of the goal, wainting till the other gk brings the ball to ther side once they fail a shoot or a pass they just shoot to the open goal.

The good about the Sprint:
-New dynamic into the game:
--Being able to turn the ball left and right easier and faster (since the sprint if u Shift+Q/E with litle power u can turn the ball), this is very good because make us able to create more chances, (more control of the ball = more chances = better gameplay)
--The duration of the speed is good.(the 3 secs duration if perfect)
-Was able to bring new and the olders players to the game atleast for a while

Conclusion
-Maybe expirement the Sprint with lower values of speed
-Try to remove shooting faster while sprint
I like the idea, just needs a litle corrections

If u want to discuss this forward or talking about new ideas im open to it
Discord heim#0385
#EderEZ the GOD
Unusualsoft  [developer] Aug 31 @ 12:14am 
The value of sprint is already pretty low. With sprint your speed is 4, without the sprint it is 3.

When you kick while sprinting the speed of the kicked ball increase by 1 unit, which means if it is normally around 16 it grows to 17 so this is a growth of around 6%.

You can also use this to pass faster if you think the ball is not moving fast enough during the passes.
sedan95 Aug 31 @ 1:47am 
I'm not an active player anymore in this game, but I would like to share some thoughts that you and the game could benefit from.

- First of all, I think the core idea, that sprint was needed in the game for a long time is not wrong. I know that the majority of football games all have sprint, I know that it was requested by some members of the community, it was a logical step to try it at one point.

But here are some of my arguements against it:

- Its 2020, people do not expect these major changes to the gameplay anymore. The community has took the time to learn and master a certain gameplay, and this new sprint comes in and throws it out of the window. Its like we wasted all that time to learn something, just so we can relearn a new way of playing, in 2020, 8 years after the release. In a point in time, where the community is losing players, shrinking, the last thing we needed was something that divides players, and makes a lot of players quit altogether. If sprint was added 8 or 5 years ago, I think it would have been different.

- I was here when curve, shift or A/D dribbling was added, and I welcomed all the ideas. Because even tough we had to adapt to a new gameplay, it was an expansion, the gameplay got more complex. I feel like sprint doesnt add any more complexity, well, at least not in a good way. I feel that its too much to handle at a same time. When you have to jump, shift, kick and sprint at the same time, you can easily get oveerwhelmed. There are too many things to handle simultaneously. When I played shift, most of the time I just forgot about it and only used it when someone started chasing me with higher speed and I had no other choice. If I really wanted, and spent hours learning it, I'm pretty sure anyone could master it, but it doesnt feel like it worths it. Its not something that elevates the game, its just another way to play. Not better just different.

- Sprint could have been better, but it also messed with the shift mechanic. I really dislike how shift handles in sprint games. It just another unnecessary change to an already learnt mechanic. People use shift not just to dribble, but to control or create advantage in certain situations. I feel like sprint shift just takes away that, and makes it even difficult to handle things. Also, the sprint shift dribble (that uses stamina) is just too OP and not fun. Its way too easy to abuse, hard to defend against, obnoxius.

- I really don't see the point of sprint at this moment. It only creates division in the community. The only people using it are new players, and they don't use it because they prefer it, they use it because they are forced to do so. Its not benefitial to have new players learn a certain gameplay just so after a while they must learn again, because the only way they can get into teams, play with older players, etc. is to adapt to the no sprint way of playing. Having two seperate gameplays in a game as small as this is just pointless. Either make everything No Sprint, or make everything Sprint. But this in-between way clearly not working for anyone.

- I have read your points why sprint was added, but I just don't see it as such. I think you could already done all those things without sprint. Heck, it was more challanging the non-sprint way, because it took really skill and knowledge to do those things, without the crutch of sprint. You can still position, cover or save as GK without the sprint, but it takes actually skill and experience that you need to learn through the game. Yes, managing sprinting is another skill that could be mastered, but it doesnt automatically makes it better. (You could add double jump/high jump, it would be another skill to master, but would the game be better with it?)

- Its easy to dismiss to criticism of sprint by saying its the fault of the old community. One thing, that you left both gameplays in so you have given the chance to players to choose what they prefer, and they clearly did so. People tried it, didnt like it, so since they have chance, they will obviously go back to playing regular gameplay. At the same time, you force people to do use sprint. New players have no other choice, you create Sprint Only tournaments, while 90% of the community has already expressed their feelings.

All in all, I just don't see the point of forcing sprint this hardly, when it doesnt expand on the gameplay, it doesnt make the gameplay more attractive or appealing, it just makes it more complicated, it messes with the way people learnt the way how to play. Its not better, just different. All sprint does now is create diversion in an already small community, you are trying to put everything on sprint, while the majority of the people are in the other side. You can brush every criticism off as 'useless cries of children, they don't know what they want', or you can acknowledge the fact that sprint is not flawless, and if this many people standing against the idea might have a valid point after all. They are still the part of your game's community, they should be treated as so.
Unusualsoft  [developer] Aug 31 @ 2:34am 
Sedan95 and other players, thx for your opinion.

As a developer it is my job to make the game better. I am the one who sees the big picture and cares the most about the future of this game.

The problem is that the number of players was constantly going down, the matches at the top level looks pretty much the same. Actions are looking almost the same all the time (if two high skill teams are playing against each other) and if you score it is because of a mistake of the other team, rarely because you have created some incredible action. Most of the time it is just a volley.

Ball 3D was not so fun to watch. Top level match should be about something more than just cross pass + volley. Some variety was needed and I provided the variety, but for the reasons I mentioned players were not willing to learn this new skill.

How many people do you think played some serious sparrings with sprint for more than a few hours? You would probably need to spend at least 30 hours to learn how to play with sprint and the new trick. Even more to master it.

People say the sprint is bad, but why is it bad? Some argue that you can go to the opponent too fast, yet I have nerfed this sprint so much that this is not the case anymore. Of course sometimes you will be able to do this if you have full sprint on Real Soccer, then maybe you will be able to perform this. The other player can use the new trick, the sprint or a pass to counter this.

I decided to not force this among the old players, to avoid the hate, as I have enough hearing bad wishes into my direction for all the work I have put into this game. Also this new feature was directed into new players, who don't have the problem of having the non-sprint skills. They have to learn everything from scratch so they will probably learn sprint even faster than they will learn how to kick properly or how to curve properly.

Sure I wish I could go back in time and add this in 2012, but I can only add this now. Now we have antilag, we have dedicated servers. The lack of this in the past was the main reason why I have made Ball 3D slow, to mask the input latency. It turned out to be good for the game as it is now very strategic and not so arcade.

Sprint has been nerfed by a lot, I don't think it is now the skill that will let you win every game. The game is still about passes and now a bit more about dribbling and sprint management. But show me how you win a league just by using the sprint and I will consider changing it. On top of that sprint is the same for everyone, so no one is able to get any advantage over the other team by miraculously being able to use some more sprint than others.

I have played games with sprint and I have not noticed that suddenly players are not passing or doing other normal activities. I have only noticed that there are much more interesting actions going on. Like people are trying to find holes and use sprint to position themselves fast to receive a pass. Or people using sprint and new trick to save the ball from going over the line on the Real Soccer stadium. Or people pushing the GK finally, to not make the cross pass on the Real Soccer stadium.

Sure I still appreciate the old non-sprint Ball 3D. It has something nice in it, especially now as most of the players nearly perfected it when you compare it to sprint mode, when no one is even close to a perfection. If you know Ball 3D history, maybe you know that I was a good player in 2012-2013 playing in the best team at that time plus the fact that I have spent a lot of time thinking about the design of the game makes me quite credible to say my opinion about the gameplay of the game. I can see why the old players may never want to learn sprint, I don't plan to remove the old mode until the majority will play on Sprint.

I clearly see that the game is better with sprint, creating much more possibilities and also it is more fun to watch and seems more dynamic and faster, which is a good thing for potential new players. The current sprint force you to learn differently, if you will want to play as before, you may blame the sprint for your failures rather than your inability to adapt and to learn new mechanics of the game. And many players prefer to just discredit the sprint.

Also I have noticed many players, even league admins, spreading bad opinions about myself or insulting my and my family behind my back, for no obvious reasons. As I already mentioned young people can be easily manipulated.

These adult players for example once convinced one of the younger players to insult me while I was playing. They knew that I will ban this person for this, but they wanted to use him to have fun. And I don't remember who they were exactly, but one other person told me their names after this situation and these were adult and well known players.

Also in the past I have seen top players cheating in leagues by faking others or even selling tags. Really I have seen so much toxicity over the years and so much of non-logical behavior among this community (including the community leaders). That's why I have added the global mute to the game.

My point is that if you are insulting others, especially for no obvious reason or because you have lose a match in a video game, I consider you immature and not intelligent enough to be able to say anything useful about new features in the game. Unfortunately the majority still respects these toxic people and will follow their opinion.
Last edited by Unusualsoft; Aug 31 @ 2:56am
sedan95 Aug 31 @ 3:45am 
I agree somewhat that the competitive gameplay got a bit monotone, since crossing is the most effective way to tackle strong defences, but at the same time, some teams proved it differently. This summer, in two seperate tournaments, I saw the best matches of Ball3D, I have ever seen, between Portugal and Italy (and I highly advise you to check them out, if you have some spare time, its still on youtube and twitch). These teams show how high the skill ceiling really is compared to other teams, and that there are still room to improve.

You probably need time to master it, thats true. But people don't want to start learning new things at this point. People were trying to master the gameplay as it is, but why should players of 5-7-8 years want to start learning new things again? I feel like people are tired of adapting to new gameplay mechanics.

I wouldn't say sprint is bad, I just feel like it doesn't add that much postive to the gameplay, that it worths adapting to.
The problem is that people don't see that benefit, that sprint does to the game. People were satisfied with the state of the mechanics. I feel like people needed to be more creative, more precise, and simply just play better, because they had no crutches like a sprint. Its too drastic of a change.
If I can say, I feel like the game was the most dynamic during the nerfed shift A/D phase in 2018. That was the point, where I feel like the game was the most action packed. I know people complained about it, but I feel like that was the most balanced state of the game. (Its not an objective fact, its just my personal opinion).

Its not an easy situation, I understand that you want to improve your game, and you see this as the best way to do so. But maybe the current time or current state is just not the best to do it anymore. I'm not sure the community will be able to accept sprint, i don't see it happening. But at the same time, the current divided state is not optimal. Maybe you could try to ask the opionion of new players, who can try sprint and non-sprint modes aswell, to see which one they prefer. It could be a more objective answer to the question.

Toxicity is a huge problem, but not only in this game, but in gaming in general. Its not just a Ball3D problem exclusively. People can do anything without consequence, and thats how the internet/gaming works. The toxicity appears really vividly in Player vs Player games. When you have a game that so strongly relies on human interactions (making teams, arranging spars, arranging time for league matches, etc.), people will more likely to start arguing with each other. Also this community is so small, most people know each other, negative relationships, rivalries born, its hard to hide the toxicity in this enviroment. Also children can't behave nowadays, its a fact. But if you look at Rocket League for example, it also suffers from the same salty, toxic kind of people, like this game. Just the size difference helps it to hide it a bit more.

Of course its hard to recognize the valid criticisms in a community like this, where insults and toxicity are the loudest voices you will hear. But there are still people who doesn't like sprint, beause they jumped on a hate-wagon, but they genuinely dislike some aspects of it.
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