Heirs And Graces

Heirs And Graces

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Kron Sep 2, 2016 @ 10:34am
Yaoi only?
Okay, I'm not trying to insult or offend anyone, I just really want to understand. Correct me if I'm wrong, but I can't remember even 1 game WITHOUT gay content from Winter Wolves. And now there is a game with ONLY gay romances? What is the point of such... strange vector? In all previous games I've played (Loren, Roommates, Tales of Aravorn, Planet Stronghold (Both)), there were heterosexual and homosexual romance for both genders. My problem is that there are not so many games in Steam with romances and when I saw another game from this developer, I was hoping to find something for myself and was dissapointed, after I've found that there is no female romance options.
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Showing 1-15 of 36 comments
Winter Wolves  [developer] Sep 2, 2016 @ 11:34am 
Hi,
thanks for the feedback. This game was an experiment, since I am also doing some yuri-only games. I actually started TWO yuri only games before this one, but for a reason or another, they're not ready yet :(

However, you're right about offering more options, and I think in future I'll try to have both playable genders (male/female), or if I have to choose, female protag with otome and yuri, since those two are by far the most popular (at least from my own experience).

In my next game Queen Of Thieves (in beta now on my site) there'll be that combo (otome/yuri) and it also has a very nice art, so keep an eye on that one :)
Dante Sep 2, 2016 @ 10:51pm 
I think homo sexuality is overrated... but that's because I'm straight. And I even mean yuri and lesbians scenes...
For a while it seemed hip or glamorous to go outside the conventional box and explore what is known as some people (gays)'s whole world.
But then I remembered a documentary about gays and other (forgot the title of said documentary) having real hard time finding a game they could really identify to. BECAUSE the story of nearly all video games involved straight relationships…
In the end maybe sexual orientation isn’t a choice, but making a game sure as hell is. And so is choosing to play it. What I am trying to say is; if you don’t like a game, the dynamics and the graphics; it won’t matter who or what is involved in the bedroom. And if you really like it, same as above. It’s cool for the Devs AND the players to keep an open mind. In any case, it’s always hard to find every thing you ever want in a game.
Cheer up everyone; it’s always nice to find something that challenges our own views and understandings. It’s how we grow.
Balor Sep 3, 2016 @ 10:47am 
Look at this from the gay perspective. For gay males, 95% of visual novels on steam are ONLY straight/yuri. Frankly, I am very happy that a dev is creating a game for an extremely underserved demographic.

You might feel disappointed that there are no romance options for you in this game, but gay males feel that disappointment almost every time they click on a visual novel game.
Last edited by Balor; Sep 3, 2016 @ 10:53am
Kron Sep 3, 2016 @ 11:11am 
Originally posted by Balor:
Look at this from the gay perspective. For gay males 95% of visual novels on steam are ONLY straight/yuri. Frankly, I am very happy that a dev is creating a game for an extremely underserved demographic.

You might feel disappointed that there are no romance options for you in this game, but gay males feel that disappointment almost every time they click on a visual novel game.
Where are these 95% VN on Steam with heterosexual-only content for males?! And why make gay ONLY game? Why not add at least 1 female romance option (it would even be funny - playing as straight male, trying to have relationships with female and avoiding 4 guys hitting on him).
Exizel Sep 3, 2016 @ 4:38pm 
they are very few VN game with gay content on steam, they are a lot more for lesbian, heterosexual males and heterosexual females, just search a little and you'll see, also


Originally posted by Kron:
Why not add at least 1 female romance option (it would even be funny - playing as straight male, trying to have relationships with female and avoiding 4 guys hitting on him).


which part of this is funny? maybe it is funny for you but it would ruin the game for me,I wouldn't have bought it, this is a game with 4 gay romances and you think it's a good idea to add that one gay stereotype(who exist only in fiction to be funny) that make only straight male laught and leave gay uncomfortable...

even if the game had a female romance option, the gay characters shouldn't be written for people like you, you want the gay characters to be written in a way that make the game funny.

the gay characters should be written for people who want the gay romance not for the entertainment of straight people(or to be more precise people not interest in the gay romance).
Last edited by Exizel; Sep 4, 2016 @ 1:50am
Kron Sep 4, 2016 @ 4:21am 
Niiiice, so, when I'm playing some game, trying to have friendship with everyone (including both genders) and suddenly stumble upon some dude that wants to get my (male) hero into bed (which is disgusting for me) - thats normal. But, when I'm telling that it wouldn't be bad to add at least 1 female romance - that's wrong, I shouldn't even offer such thing, because gay people (minorities, last time I've checked) want to have only "their" game? Oh, okay...

P.S. Btw, everything in brackets from my previous comment - was a joke. I don't care how gay characters are written, the best way (for me) for them to be written - so I wouldn't even knew that they were in game.
Last edited by Kron; Sep 4, 2016 @ 4:26am
infellune Sep 4, 2016 @ 5:33am 
I honestly don't get why you posted this. There are many BxG games on Steam and Mangagamer, so this thread does feel useless. So what if it's all guy romances? It's a game for people who like BxB or identify with them. It's not for people who only like BxG. Honestly there's too much BxG in my opinion. Even Yuri is small. I mean I'm not against it if a game has mixed options like having two guys and two girls to pursue, but this isn't a game that has that.

I'm grateful for Winter Wolves making something different and I hope they continue to make BxB games. We need more of the, and Yuri on steam. Truth is, yaoi and yuri lovers like their games to be just that and don't want mix options. Like I said there are plenty of BxG's and otome games out there, so if you don't like this, go to one o them or one of Winter Wolves other games if you haven't.
Kron Sep 4, 2016 @ 6:16am 
Originally posted by infellune:
I honestly don't get why you posted this. There are many BxG games on Steam and Mangagamer, so this thread does feel useless. So what if it's all guy romances? It's a game for people who like BxB or identify with them. It's not for people who only like BxG. Honestly there's too much BxG in my opinion. Even Yuri is small. I mean I'm not against it if a game has mixed options like having two guys and two girls to pursue, but this isn't a game that has that.

I'm grateful for Winter Wolves making something different and I hope they continue to make BxB games. We need more of the, and Yuri on steam. Truth is, yaoi and yuri lovers like their games to be just that and don't want mix options. Like I said there are plenty of BxG's and otome games out there, so if you don't like this, go to one o them or one of Winter Wolves other games if you haven't.
Because, I liked previous games of this developer (Loren, Roommates, Planet Stronghold...) and no, there are not many BxG games with actual romance. I've played several Mangagamer games, but found them too... anime. Plus, they're too... adult-oriented, which is not so bad, but it's not what I'm looking for. For example, in Loren you play as a slave and you can develop romantic relatonships with princess of amazons, as you progress through the game, she starts to fall for you more and more and you (player) see this. That's what I want - to see romantic feelings towards my character more and more through the game. Mangagamer? Well, I went to their site and found several games: "Imouto Paradise 2", which is a sequel to some porn game, "Funbag Fantasy", which is some crazy♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ing game, "Euphoria" - a game, where you must have sex with one of 5 girls in order for you all to survive (some crazy porn parody of "Saw"?) and "Beat Blades Haruka" - a game, where you "help" 3 girls to fight demons by having sex with them (with girls, of course). As I said, not something I'm looking for (but good games, I'm sure).

I understand, that in our society there are not so many male players, who want to find actual feelings in games, most of us rather play some hentai game with lots of fap-content, but I'm interested in first, not second (actually no, I'm interested in second too). And that makes me even more dissapointed - I have to wait for next "Winter Wolves" game, hoping there will be heterosexual male romance (which is pointless, because next game will be homo/heterosexual female romances only).

And, if you know games with BxG romances as serious part of game (not some "Bound by Flame" or "King's Bounty The Legend" "romance") , not too anime and with "romance>sex" condition - feel free to write some examples.
Last edited by Kron; Sep 4, 2016 @ 6:18am
infellune Sep 4, 2016 @ 9:49am 
Wow...I must say I really like your response. No seriously I do. I want to apologize if I sounded rude at all. This may sound odd but you and I are similar in our tastes for games. You make very good points. Like you I like the romance to progress and grow. Not just be thrown in my face. I have nothing against adult games, but they need to have to be done in a way where it feels like the romance is real. I totally agree with you.

I myself don't play too much BxG or the reasons you have stated. As for anime art, it's sadly the most popular art style to use though western art is being used more. I've seen a good amount of ames (including winter wolves) have western art.

As for BxG games that aren't too anime? Mmm. It's a bit hard for me to think of one. Ace Academy, though anime style, might be good. It's not hentai nor does have super boring girls. It's more romance and story. But again the style is anime, so I'm not sure if you'd like it. If you're into yuri at all, you may like Starlight Vega......Actually you've got me thinking there aren't many BxG games without anime art which is sad. Western art can be very beautiful....

There is a Planet Strong Hold 2 and SOTW. Also a game called Locked Souls you may like. It's a BxG, style is not to anime like, and has an interesting story. At the moment only the demo is out, but it's 40,000 words.

Again I'm sorry if I sounded harsh. You make many valid points I agree with and even had made me think. I'll try and see if I can find something you may like, but I understand what you mean. It's hard to find games like that and a bit sad. Most BxG's I can't play due to how bad they can be.
infellune Sep 4, 2016 @ 9:51am 
Oh also maybe try Katawa Shoujo. It does have anime style a bit but not like the ones on managa gamer. It's very long and has five routes. It's a story about girls with disabilities.
Kron Sep 4, 2016 @ 10:59am 
Thanks for examles. Already played both "Planet Stronghold"s, "Tales of Aravorn" and "Katawa Shoujo". "Ace Academy" is already in my wishlist. Will play "Locked Souls", after it will come out - prefer to play games after their full release. Probably will try to play "Starlight Vega" and may be other GxG games if I will be able to successfully "forget" that I'm playing as girl and pretend to be the guy.
Winter Wolves  [developer] Sep 4, 2016 @ 2:37pm 
Of my games currently in the work, the following have BxG romances:
Planet Stronghold 2
Loren 2
Roger Steel (Steampunk RPG)
Love Bites

plus 2-3 more which I haven't publicly announced yet ;)

The thing is that I'm finishing a lot of games started YEARS ago, for which I have the art done, but not the writing. And those artist aren't available anymore, so I cannot add more characters / romances.
In summary, whenever possible I'll try to add male characters and BxG / BxB :)
silver_hyena Sep 4, 2016 @ 3:15pm 
You know, I never actually realized bxg games had that problem until you pointed it out. I guess I figured there were so many out there that at least some of them had to focus on something other than fan service and sex. It seems that isn't really the case after all...

Anyway, I'm by no means a bxg expert (full disclosure: I'm the one who wrote Heirs and Graces. BxB is my jam), but I did come up with a few games that I really love with the option to date/befriend the ladies. (My apologies in advance. Most of them are lengthy rpgs so they probably aren't what you're looking for in the first place. I tried.)

- Persona 4 (This one isn't on steam unfortunately, but if you have the means of playing it, do it. It is an rpg, but it's one of the best (if not the best) rpgs out there and it has a strong emphasis on befriending other characters. Once you reach a certain level with the female characters, they can become your girlfriend and it'll change how the main character spends his holidays and what not. The characters are beyond well written and the story will have you laughing one minute and experiencing all the feels the next. I also recommend Persona 3 and if 5 ends up being half as good as either of the games before it, it will also be amazing too)

- Legend of Heroes: Trails of Cold Steel (This one isn't on steam either. An earlier set of games in the series is, but the hero of that one is a girl and the relationship is predetermined. This one stars a male main character who can buddy up with any of his classmates. I think only the one relationship is strictly romantic (Alisa), but who your best buddy is does at least change up the ending a bit. And there is a sequel coming out on Sept 6 that continues the story so maybe those friendships can turn romantic sometime during the second game. Beyond that, the legend of heroes games are just really solid jrpgs that take great care in their characters. Even the npcs have story lines for you to discover. Will housewife A finish that sweater she's making for her husband before he gets too suspicious about the secret she's keeping from him? You have to play to find out)

- Alpha Protocol (This one is on steam and if you like bioware games this one has that feel to it. You can romance up to 4 girls (all in one playthrough even) and your choices do effect their story's outcome. 3 out of the 4 were dead by the end of my playthrough and I had romanced 2 of them (both of them included in the body count unfortunately)... I feel a little bad, but not that bad. Anyway, they're actually pretty well done relationships and it's just a fun game that incorporates choices better than a lot of games I've seen. This is also is the only one on my list that doesn't have anime art.)

- Ace Academy (I'm just going to go ahead and second the recommendation on this one. It's so much fun. I ignored all the girls and just hung out with my buddy and my little sister and it was still a great playthrough. (Not that the girls weren't interesting. I just always like hoping they included a secret bxb route in there. They didn't. :P) There are a lot of choices that lead to hilarious dialogue and yet, as crazy as the choices are, it still has a good story line.)

- Tales from the Borderlands (Okay, so there's only one romantic relationship you can kind of develop, but it is adorkable. Beyond that, this game is hilarious and just good fun. I haven't played any of the games that this telltale game derives itself from, but that didn't stop me from having a blast.)

- Danganronpa 1+2 (This one is definitely a stretch. You can't date anyone and the characters you're most interested in will probably die at some point in the game. That being said, the game does allow you to spend your free time with the various characters and I did get attached to a good majority of them. And that makes the story all that more powerful. These games are on steam and I highly recommend them.)


And that's all I've got. Good luck on finding games! As a bxb player that can't find enough games to satisfy my personal tastes, I feel your pain.

(Also, I probably will work on games that include more relationship options in the future. Hopefully I'll make something that you'll be able to enjoy at some point.)
Balor Sep 4, 2016 @ 5:22pm 
Originally posted by infellune:
I'm grateful for Winter Wolves making something different and I hope they continue to make BxB games. We need more of the, and Yuri on steam.

I completely agree.
Last edited by Balor; Sep 4, 2016 @ 5:22pm
kurozora.konoi Sep 4, 2016 @ 5:35pm 
Yeah, while I'm glad Heirs and Graces is BxB only since we really need more of that, I understand your issue with BxG games. I play lots of otome games (so totally not your style - GxB very anime style), and I'm not too fond of the BxG. But I'm not fond of them BECAUSE they aren't very interesting usually. I guess if I find some really nice BxG games, my opinion may change. Usually the issues are bland female characters totally not appealing to me, or simple boring harem styled game.
Anyway, if you need more suggestions, I really like Utawarerumono, wich is a tactical RPG + visual novel game. It's anime style and I think you have intimate relationship with all the girls in a playthrough (or at least it happened to me), but the game is really interesting, and the relationships still progress and all. It's quite a unique game in my opinion.
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