Super Cloudbuilt
Implojin Jul 25, 2017 @ 3:48pm
I liked Cloudbuilt
but I didn't like it enough to pay for the same game twice, and the trailers look a lot like that's what this is.

@devs: You might consider a deeper discount for owners of the original. That 30% coupon coupled with trailers that look identical to the original makes me leery of this title.
< >
Showing 1-15 of 15 comments
.мaяco Jul 25, 2017 @ 3:58pm 
It's definitely not the same game. Most mechanics reworked, all new levels ... it's Cloudbuilt but better and more of it. Really not a mistake to buy, especially if you already liked Cloudbuilt.
Gafgar  [developer] Jul 25, 2017 @ 4:12pm 
IF you want I can copy a few lines from another post I made recently if it helps:

So some of the more over view stuff of the changes:


Originally posted by Gafgar:
We have remastered all levels in the game (and both DLCs), some are remade almost completely with nothing but the concept intact, while others have had smaller tweaks, where most of them have seen a significant large change.

As for the game progression it has been changed from a level select to a hub world that grows and changes as you progress and can be affected by other actions you take.

We have integrated the challenge modes along with an all new powerups system directly in to the story mode.

We have rewritten all the story and there are new story content as well including endings, but I don't want to go in on that too much because of spoilers.

We have built a better ranked mode that is quicker to use and separate from the story, and with a global combined ranking.

Along with the actual gameplay changes that is extensive enough that not a line of code for the player is reused.

If you have any more specific questions or want me to elaborate more on an area please let me know and I'll do my best.


Here is a more detailed reply I made when someone asked about details of the movement changes.

Originally posted by Gafgar:
This might get a bit technical, to actually describe how it differs in detail, but in general we have worked a lot with accelerations and movement states to make them more seamless and natural while keeping them responsive. All player code is actually 100% re written. Not a line is the same as the original game.

Okay, so if we want to get a bit technical then... the movement on the ground is largely the same, but you accelerate a bit faster on the first few steps but a little slower right before you hit max speed. The difference in minor, but it means that you can't do as good wallruns from standing still anymore, while still keeping the input very responsive. Now you do best in having about 1 to 2 meter acceleration to get the most out of your jumps. So standing on a small ledge with less room will make wallruns a bit worse if you don't already are up in to speed. Hoe the ground surface is evaluated is different as well, taking multiple spots under you into account, meaning small details in the environment will not affect the surface of your interactions, which also helps to remove an exploit from the old game.
We then also use a better edge stepping technique, making small height differences not matter for your basic movement and you can walk straight over them more smoothly.

In the case of wallruns there is no longer a vertical and horizontal wallrun, there is just one seamless wallrun state that can handle a full 360 degrees of angels, meaning every slight difference in how you approach the wall matters. This is in general much more natural and provides extra depth. It takes a little time to get used to as we know no other game that does it like this, basing it on physical calculations like this, but once you learn it it's very smooth as you movement in the air or the ground can translate very well to the movement on the wall.

The air control is a bit different as well, how it handles acceleration in 3 different steps depending on your speed, to make it responsive at slow jumps while still being responsive at longer ones while also preserving the feeling of momentum and such. If you played the old game a lot it can take some time to get used to.

We have also have revamped the slide state, making it accelerate with the actual gravity value and the slopes, making it much more natural in relationship to falls and jumps, and on to of that we made it handle a kind of simulated but exaggerated centrifugal force and feather in the legs of the character, enabling you to slide up surfaces and even round things such as loops. Though actual loops are not really used much. It's just something we worked to make sure the system was robust enough to handle.

Last and finally for the things I'll bring up here now is the old edge buffer thing is gone and replaced with ghost jumps, making it a lot smoother. The original had a system that forced you to stop on edges for a set time to enable players to always have at least a chance to get a decent jump on edges and be less strict on timing when running towards an edge. It buffered the actual velocity so it was not exploitable and worked well enough, but it had the side effect of making things feel a bit sticky/stutterery at times when running over edges in higher speeds. So we have now removed that system and instead built a system that let's the player jump as if on the ground a few frames after actually leaving the ground, and compensating for the difference in the force applied and so on.

There are literally a ton more of changes like these.. but this should be enough to give a taste of it :) though... maybe a bit technical...

Hope that helps expanding the extent of the changes made in the game.

It's been over two years of hard work and we have done a lot. It's hard to show it in trailers though, but if you actually were to compare the trailers I'm sure you can see more of a difference as well, as we are still going for the same style, but we've made a lot of improvements to the art and extra shader effects.
Last edited by Gafgar; Jul 25, 2017 @ 4:20pm
MoeHartman Jul 25, 2017 @ 4:21pm 
I feel this type of thing is way too confusing. It would be so much simpler if they just made an unambiguous sequel. Plus, it feels like a slap in the face to say here is our definitive version and then make you pay almost full price for something that seems like a game that you already bought. I don't understand why developers do this. I'm not going to buy the same game twice.
Is the combat changed in any way? It's what really kept me from getting into the original.
.мaяco Jul 25, 2017 @ 4:35pm 
I'd say it has been improved, but I can't specifically name what. I just like the combat a lot more in this.
Gafgar  [developer] Jul 25, 2017 @ 4:40pm 
Originally posted by MoeHartman:
I feel this type of thing is way too confusing. It would be so much simpler if they just made an unambiguous sequel. Plus, it feels like a slap in the face to say here is our definitive version and then make you pay almost full price for something that seems like a game that you already bought. I don't understand why developers do this. I'm not going to buy the same game twice.

Like the post I made above might have helped to explain, this is not a simple remaster or a definitive edition with the DLC collected. It's a very much complete remake from ground up, with a ton of work put in to it. Both the game and the engine have had major and significant overhauls. It's not the same game. But it's of course completely up to you if you want to get it or not.

We didn't do a sequel now yet because this is what we were really burning with a passion to do. We would gladly do a sequel someday as well, but we are really proud and happy with what we've accomplished with this version. It's been a long and hard journey, and so far we've heard nothing but good feedback from the fans who decided to pick up this version. We also made an effort to reach a lot more players, offering more languages than before and more platforms, and more options which will be great for anyone that want more competition on leaderboards and activity in the community.

If you played the original, thank you very much :) we're happy that you did and we hope you liked it. If you are actually looking for a sequel that continues on the story we're honored and hope to bring that one day as well, but that will be years away. For now, this version has and engine, features and mechanics of a full blow sequel, and the story is based on the original but completely rewritten and further expanded. I don't want to spoil it here, but we hope it will make fans happy.

We understand your perspective of course, and it’s down to you to decide what you want to do.
Last edited by Gafgar; Jul 25, 2017 @ 4:40pm
Gafgar  [developer] Jul 25, 2017 @ 4:46pm 
Originally posted by Snacks the sober sea lion:
Is the combat changed in any way? It's what really kept me from getting into the original.
Yes, it's been changed :)
Your weapon is now redesign with 3 very distinct fire modes instead of just one with 3 charge levels. Each fire mode has clear use cases, advantages and advantages.

We have reworked enemies as well and added more variations of enemies that already existed and added a few all new ones. Enemies and combat has also been used with the level design while taking more things in to consideration. Trying to learn from the experience we had with the original, but it's hard to point at anything specific.

Ultimately there is also the fog levels, completely free of combat, and that might hold a key to something that can let you experience most of the game in a drastically different way... but we've been wanting to keep that item and it's properties a little secret :)

It's now more realistic than before that most players who want to do so can reach multiple endings without ever having to fight after the tutorial.
Last edited by Gafgar; Jul 25, 2017 @ 5:12pm
MoeHartman Jul 25, 2017 @ 4:50pm 
Thank you for the thoughtful response. I still think I will wait for a deeper discount, but I'm a little more open to purchasing Super Cloudbuilt after reading your response. I still think a sequel would have been a better idea, because like I said, this type of release is more confusing than anything, but it sounds like it may have more merit than it appears on the surface, and of course, the game is finished at this point. Again, I appreciate your taking the time to respond.
Gafgar  [developer] Jul 25, 2017 @ 5:24pm 
Originally posted by MoeHartman:
Thank you for the thoughtful response. I still think I will wait for a deeper discount, but I'm a little more open to purchasing Super Cloudbuilt after reading your response. I still think a sequel would have been a better idea, because like I said, this type of release is more confusing than anything, but it sounds like it may have more merit than it appears on the surface, and of course, the game is finished at this point. Again, I appreciate your taking the time to respond.
Thanks! I'm glad to hear that :) I hope you don’t feel any pressure to do so. That you consider it for what it is, is all we can ever ask for, and we of course respect everyone's decisions and opinions.
Would be happy to hear your thoughts on it if you were to get it.
Last edited by Gafgar; Jul 25, 2017 @ 5:24pm
Supa Jul 25, 2017 @ 6:16pm 
Originally posted by MoeHartman:
Thank you for the thoughtful response. I still think I will wait for a deeper discount, but I'm a little more open to purchasing Super Cloudbuilt after reading your response. I still think a sequel would have been a better idea, because like I said, this type of release is more confusing than anything, but it sounds like it may have more merit than it appears on the surface, and of course, the game is finished at this point. Again, I appreciate your taking the time to respond.
Well if the price is concern the game will be abandonware by the point when you finish your 3700ish unplayed games. https://i.imgur.com/8z0g7YS.png
Khronikos Jul 25, 2017 @ 7:32pm 
It's fair. A lot of people paid very little for this game, and it is an amazing game.

I didn't even play that much of the original, but it seems they improved every aspect I had a problem with. Congrats on the release.
Last edited by Khronikos; Jul 25, 2017 @ 7:33pm
Maverik770 Jul 27, 2017 @ 8:26am 
I think my biggest concern is that the discount for owners of the original is a very short timed coupon and not a lifetime discount. 30% is fine and rebuying the game is fine considering how much work has gone into rebuilding it from the ground up. But to only offer owners and supported of the original a very short timed discount at launch and then take it away come August 1st, 2017 seems a bit harsh. It kind of says "Thanks for supporting our original title, now buy this one at launch or lose that loyalty discount".

I know nothing is as simple as it sounds, especially when it comes to future sales and promos and how a loyalty discount could affect or conflict with those kinds of things. I have seen these issues on other Steam games that offer lifetime loyalty discounts as well. While I greatly appreciate the coupon and would buy the game, I just can't justify it right now at launch. I don't have the money to spare and have waaayyyyy too many games I need to play through before I should buy another.

It just feels a bit disappointing to miss out on my Loyalty Discount because apparently loyalty for buying and supporting the original game only lasts for 1 week from launch of the new version? :conwayshrug:
Last edited by Maverik770; Jul 27, 2017 @ 8:28am
Shadowfury333 Aug 4, 2017 @ 11:14pm 
Thanks for the detailed breakdown of the movement changes. The ground acceleration changes w.r.t. wallruns make a lot of sense for what I was finding in the no energy zones, and the 360 degree wallrun change makes a lot of sense for why the wallruns felt so slippery. Specifically I tested Dreams (from the original) against Recovery, since they are pretty much identical, and the L-shaped wallrun section right after the cannons was way harder to get up to in Super than in the original, and this explains why.

Actually, overall I found Recovery way harder to get through than Dreams (as in I re-ran Dreams – without using blue shot jumps to better match Super – and then alt-tabbed to Super and re-ran Recovery), probably because I'm quite used to the original's movement mechanics. Super's just feel more slippery to me, like I can't quite stick to walls and floors as I would expect to, likely due to other minor buffering changes and acceleration changes.
Last edited by Shadowfury333; Aug 4, 2017 @ 11:17pm
Starlit Aug 5, 2017 @ 6:30am 
I loved the original but I doubt I will ever touch it again and this game was 12.5 euro for me at release so I fail to see the "how can you make it so expensive argument".

It's improved in almost every way. Story mode is more immersive. The mechanics are smoother and imo cooler to play though a bit too abusable. The only advantage the original has is the workshop support
Epistemic Aug 11, 2017 @ 9:55pm 
Originally posted by MoeHartman:
I feel this type of thing is way too confusing. It would be so much simpler if they just made an unambiguous sequel. Plus, it feels like a slap in the face to say here is our definitive version and then make you pay almost full price for something that seems like a game that you already bought. I don't understand why developers do this. I'm not going to buy the same game twice.
I got it at almost half price because of the coupon, plus the week 1 discount. This is a new game, I don't mind paying for it, since people should get paid for the work they do. If we didn't have such an active dev here in the forums answering like 99% of the questions people have, and if this were simply an HD remake, then it would be a slap in the face. However, I don't see a problem as is.
< >
Showing 1-15 of 15 comments
Per page: 15 30 50