Are nosh beans worth it?

[In-Bread Dog]

Nosh beans require a low temperature, 21 days to grow, and 20 kg of ethanol to grow (420 kg in total (haha funni weed number funni.)). In the end, they only produce 3,200 calories with an additional requirement of 240 watts and 50 kg of water. 4000 if combined with pincha pepper nuts. All in all, are they even worth growing? The badlands has a plethora nosh beans but no trees, meaning no renewable ethanol until space travel.

In total, are nosh beans worth growing, or should I spend resources on something else, e.g sleet wheat, bristle blossoms, etc?

[gtgiygus]

Spicy tofu requires 1/4th (200kg vs. 800kg) the clean water when compared to Pepper Bread. If you need that water and large moral bonus, it will be worth it to you.

If you compare Pepper Bread with Spicy tofu, you will see most all else, including labor, is equal.

[gimmethegepgun]

You say "only" but that's pretty close to the average daily calorie output of a mealwood plant, except you can use fertilizer on them to speed them up, and it makes much higher quality food.

Without renewable ethanol though it's probably not worth it.

[bwhitejr]

Originally posted by gimmethegepgun:

You say "only" but that's pretty close to the average daily calorie output of a mealwood plant, except you can use fertilizer on them to speed them up, and it makes much higher quality food.

Without renewable ethanol though it's probably not worth it.

There is no food made with mealwood that's higher quality than the base tofu. Meal lice alone are -1 morale, liceloaf is 0 quality, and consumes water, pickled meal lice is -1 morale, but lasts longer, but takes the same water as lice loaf.

Tofu is +2 morale but consumes the same amount of water as liceloaf, and spicy tofu requires no water, but requires the gas range to make, but is +5 to morale - which is worth it, as morale is hard to come by in later cycles.

I've grown nosh beans when i can set up arbor tree farms and pips, if you do it right ethanol is not hard to obtain, i've powered and fed bases from pips, trees, and nosh beans.

Meal lice sucks up dirt, too. I tend to not have it around except for drecko farms by mid-game, better quality food is easier to get to and requires much less work than tending meal lice. I'm not sure how you're fertilizing meal lice, because they get no benefit from the farm station, unless you're confusing the dupes adding dirt to them occasionally, which to my knowledge does not speed up their growth, but simply enables them to grow - no dirt, no meal lice. Meal lice, wheezeworts and oxyferns don't get any benefit from the farm station. Nosh beans do.

Meal lice is also one of two plants in the game with a negative decor value, along with Bog Buckets in the Spaced Out DLC, which is also a factor in later cycles, as decor can be important.

Meal lice are great for the early game, but are useless except for feeding dreckos later on.

[joebruce185]

I am working with nosh beans in my current base. I even made up a spreadsheet to calculate what I need to make them sustainable. They do take a bit of work if you're trying for Spicy Tofu, but it makes a solid high quality food. I'm on Verdante; plenty of liquid ethanol around, but I need to get some generators up and running for the long haul. Without a reliable source of polluted water, that means wild arbor trees. Lots of those are possible and growing in several pip ranches I am running.

One piece of data I needed and found is below. Does this sound correct to the number crunchers out there?

From the ONI wiki (https://oxygennotincluded.fandom.com/wiki/Arbor_Tree):
A wild Arbor Tree can produce a maximum of 83.(3) kg of lumber per cycle or 138.(8) g/s (harvested by a duplicant).

A wild Arbor Tree drops a maximum of 39.47 kg of lumber per cycle or 65.79 g/s (unharvested).

That production is only after they've matured, which I thought was 18 cycles wild, but may be 36 according to that source (additional time for the branches to grow).

[gimmethegepgun]

Originally posted by bwhitejr:

-snip-

I think you misread what I said, and took the opposite meaning of my intent. Nosh beans can be fertilized, unlike mealwood, and make higher-quality food.

Also, for the record, Pickled Meal doesn't need water.

Originally posted by joebruce185:

That production is only after they've matured, which I thought was 18 cycles wild, but may be 36 according to that source (additional time for the branches to grow).

It takes 18 cycles for the trunk to develop and then another 18 cycles before the first harvest.

[joebruce185]

Once the tree reaches maturity (i.e. gets to the point of first harvest), it produces that 83 kg per cycle for a harvested, wild tree? (This is assuming it has enough space for maximum branches.)

I'm also realizing that if you use a carbon skimmer to remove the carbon from your ethanol generators, you might produce enough polluted water to farm arbor trees. Still crunching some numbers on the various possibilities of dealing with ethanol generation's other byproducts.

[In-Bread Dog]

Originally posted by joebruce185:

Once the tree reaches maturity (i.e. gets to the point of first harvest), it produces that 83 kg per cycle for a harvested, wild tree? (This is assuming it has enough space for maximum branches.)

I'm also realizing that if you use a carbon skimmer to remove the carbon from your ethanol generators, you might produce enough polluted water to farm arbor trees. Still crunching some numbers on the various possibilities of dealing with ethanol generation's other byproducts.

I can feed the polluted dirt to poke shells or more likely sage hatches. The only problem is that I currently don’t have arbor trees. I can obtain them from either the printing pod or from space travel.

[joebruce185]

Yeah, if you don't have arbor trees I'm not sure how you can do nosh beans. You'll need their lumber for a sustainable source of ethanol in the long term. I don't have the DLC, so not sure if there is an alternative way to get ethanol in that version (is there an ethanol vent/geyser??).

But, pokeshells are definitely a good option to dispose of the polluted dirt - get more lime for your steel production. That's my plan, anyway.

[caseyas435943]

Any food is good. It's whether you want to go through the pain of doing it.

Morale isn't a problem in ONI. With just basic stuff you should have 40+.

So going through the pain of making some of the foods just isn't worth the pain. Unless you just want to do it.

I'll make stuff berry if I get a poliuted water geyser. If not I just stay on BBQ. It's easy. You get coal (that you never use after cycle 100 or so but).

The other food are great but a total pain to do for morale you really don't need once you get around cycle 100 and your base is up an running at 100%. Which by 100 you normally are.

[Útost Alronbem]

Originally posted by caseyas435943:

Morale isn't a problem in ONI. With just basic stuff you should have 40+.

Can't agree with that.
With basic stuff, 15-20 is attainable with some luck - 40 isn't.
Not in base game, at least, - not sure about DLC.

Whatever boosts one gets from going all-Favourite skills and Great Hall + Barracks + Washroom are somewhat offset by meh food and bad Decor (plus, occasionally, working conditions).

And good food + good Decor is not even remotely a basic stuff...

[bwhitejr]

Originally posted by DrinkFromTheCup:

Originally posted by caseyas435943:

Morale isn't a problem in ONI. With just basic stuff you should have 40+.

Can't agree with that.
With basic stuff, 15-20 is attainable with some luck - 40 isn't.
Not in base game, at least, - not sure about DLC.

Whatever boosts one gets from going all-Favourite skills and Great Hall + Barracks + Washroom are somewhat offset by meh food and bad Decor (plus, occasionally, working conditions).

And good food + good Decor is not even remotely a basic stuff...

I have 1545 hours into ONI. When I see people say morale isn't important, I just laugh. They'll learn. Especially when morale tanks and your destructive dupes start breaking things.

[itssirtou]

Nope.

Below freezing farm.

Ethanol that comes out hot and needs to be cooled.

7200 kcals per 21 days (8000 with Pincha) (2 tofu per harvest, so they aren't AS bad as you think)

Water requirements. Relatively low water requirements, but still.

Needs Pincha to have more Morale than bbq. Which means more water, and ranching Dreckos for Phosphorite.

All for 8 more morale than BBQ. Which isn't worth pursuing. You get 8 from BBQ, 6 from great halls, 6 from a NR, 2 from a bathroom, 1 from a barracks. Then Decor (up to 12) and whatever you get back from Interests. The 23 you get from the room bonuses and BBQ alone are more than enough for most dupes, and Decor isn't THAT hard to crank to max.

The only reason to grow it is to either store in a space capsule, where morale is actually in short supply, or to go 'hurrdurr im so vegan my video game colonie eat tofu'. In this case it DOES outperform Pepper Bread (the other space superfood) on terms of upkeep.

[monotrom]

Originally posted by bwhitejr:

Originally posted by DrinkFromTheCup:

Can't agree with that.
With basic stuff, 15-20 is attainable with some luck - 40 isn't.
Not in base game, at least, - not sure about DLC.

Whatever boosts one gets from going all-Favourite skills and Great Hall + Barracks + Washroom are somewhat offset by meh food and bad Decor (plus, occasionally, working conditions).

And good food + good Decor is not even remotely a basic stuff...

I have 1545 hours into ONI. When I see people say morale isn't important, I just laugh. They'll learn. Especially when morale tanks and your destructive dupes start breaking things.

+1 especially food morale is relatively cheap to achieve.

[monotrom]

Originally posted by itssirtou:

Nope.

Below freezing farm.

Ethanol that comes out hot and needs to be cooled.

7200 kcals per 21 days (8000 with Pincha) (2 tofu per harvest, so they aren't AS bad as you think)

Water requirements. Relatively low water requirements, but still.

Needs Pincha to have more Morale than bbq. Which means more water, and ranching Dreckos for Phosphorite.

All for 8 more morale than BBQ. Which isn't worth pursuing. You get 8 from BBQ, 6 from great halls, 6 from a NR, 2 from a bathroom, 1 from a barracks. Then Decor (up to 12) and whatever you get back from Interests. The 23 you get from the room bonuses and BBQ alone are more than enough for most dupes, and Decor isn't THAT hard to crank to max.

The only reason to grow it is to either store in a space capsule, where morale is actually in short supply, or to go 'hurrdurr im so vegan my video game colonie eat tofu'. In this case it DOES outperform Pepper Bread (the other space superfood) on terms of upkeep.

PW for peppers are easily acquired from poop water (especially if you don't want to make facilities for killing germs) and increase calories. excessive ones also grazed for drecko farm too. ethanol is easily acquired by natural arbor trees planted from pips, and surplus PDs are easily converted to oxygen (or sand if you want) in the new expansion.

[monotrom]

Ethanol is not always great and not 'must-have' item, but very useful if you manage to establish their byproduct processors.
In spaced out, power is excessive due to solar panels and huge water sources from main and flooded asteroids, so powers for making and cooling ethanol isn't so problem.

What you earn from ethanol
+16 morale
Large pile of polluted dirt for oxygen production and sand making
Less labor power for maintaining food supplies (beans have long lifetime and higher calories than most other foods so automated bean farms have less to work)
Convert excessive poop water to farm peppers, eliminating needs for killing poop water germs
Carbon dioxide from distillery to feed your slicksters

So best to place them is rusty oil asteroid from spaced out swamp starting. they are native from those asteroids so you could use natural cold ethanol until getting fullerene, using solar panels and petrols to supply powers to maintain them.