Team Fortress 2
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What's the best Demoknight loadout in MVM?
Before anyone says A. This post has been made before or B. Demoknight is garbage in MVM, this post HAS been made before and the only answers to those are "don't be demoknight", and I beat Ghost Town with the second highest score (The guy who beat me was a sniper) using the Booties, Charge n Targe, and the Eyelander, proving that Demoknight isn't useless in MVM. I want to know if anything should be changed in that loadout, since Demoknight is fun as hell in MVM. Any ideas?
Last edited by King Iron | T.I.D.K.; Jun 24, 2018 @ 8:06pm
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Jet Jun 24, 2018 @ 8:24pm 
Yours is on point.
Cream Tea Jun 25, 2018 @ 1:52am 
I have found Demoknight to actually be quite effective in the last waves on Rottenburg.

I use the bootlegger + chargin' targe + HHHH (or any eyelander reskin).

So the same as yours.

Always upgrade your sword first, crits on kill, and damage and speed. I'd say always get slightly more speed than damage since two hits of decent damage is more than one hit of slightly higher damage. And once you get crits you can just go around grinding all the other bots if it's a swarm.

Quite satisfying.
Originally posted by Iron:
and I beat Ghost Town with the second highest score [...] proving that Demoknight isn't useless in MVM.

You can't prove that something is viable by playing it on Ghost Town, even if you get a high score in it. The problem with Wave 666 is, not only it isn't as hard as the playerbase wants to make it believe (it's between Steel Trap and Mecha/TC in term of difficulty), but you get a LOT of money. You can almost make anything work with so much money.

The problem I have with Demoknight is that it's basically a less efficient but more effective version of the Pyro : they fill the exact same roles but Pyro can also have airblast and have better trash killing potential. You kind of need a lot of money to make it works. However, it can be viable from wave 1, as many proved it to me.

Originally posted by Hell-met:
bottle has +25 hp + random crits which is also very good

If you don't care about melee crits and/or if you buy crit on kills early, the Half-Zatoichi and the Persian Persuader are also good options. But not having random crits do make you weaker against Tanks.
Eye Jun 25, 2018 @ 4:03am 
♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ persian?
eyelander targe booties is a good loadout, having 4 heads + max movement speed upgrades makes you move at near charge speed constantly, and crits on kill + damage per hit upgrades exist

if you're looking for something different, replacing the targe with any sticky launcher would be totally viable as well
Originally posted by Hell-met:
booties + tide + bottle

charge refill + perfect turning is extremely good

you don't need charge targe resis when you buy shop resis.

bottle has +25 hp + random crits which is also very good

eyelander has this big spike of "lose everything when you die" which is awful. And skullcutter move speed is just way too ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ slow.

You can get everything back pretty quickly if you die, but the trick is: don't die. The bottle has +25 hp compaired to the eyelander at 0 heads but -35 hp at 4 heads, which is easy to get. The tide turner... just why (for a full demoknight, demorai is a different story) you lose the full charge crit. With the booties, I've never needed full turning control unless I'm surf jumping off stairs or ramps.
Originally posted by Quenquent the babysitter:
Originally posted by Iron:
and I beat Ghost Town with the second highest score [...] proving that Demoknight isn't useless in MVM.

You can't prove that something is viable by playing it on Ghost Town, even if you get a high score in it. The problem with Wave 666 is, not only it isn't as hard as the playerbase wants to make it believe (it's between Steel Trap and Mecha/TC in term of difficulty), but you get a LOT of money. You can almost make anything work with so much money.

The problem I have with Demoknight is that it's basically a less efficient but more effective version of the Pyro : they fill the exact same roles but Pyro can also have airblast and have better trash killing potential. You kind of need a lot of money to make it works. However, it can be viable from wave 1, as many proved it to me.

Originally posted by Hell-met:
bottle has +25 hp + random crits which is also very good

If you don't care about melee crits and/or if you buy crit on kills early, the Half-Zatoichi and the Persian Persuader are also good options. But not having random crits do make you weaker against Tanks.

Demoknight has VERY limited upgrades, so having a ton of money doesn't make it work. Demoknight weapons can be maxed for $4400 exactly, maxing the shield alone only costs $750. The saving grace to demoknight (and many other classes) is the almighty crit canteen. As far as I can tell, a demoknight can take out a tank faster than a pyro, with a swing dealing 130 base damage every 0.4 seconds. I think the pyro does about 80 per 0.4 seconds, but I'm not 100% sure on that. The Persian Persuader also has almost no use in mvm. The downsides are nothing to a full demoknight, but with just one or two charge upgrades ($150 each) the charge fills up so fast, there are so many better options like the Skullcutter (with movement speed upgrades), Half-Zatoichi (like you said), or the most overpowered weapon in the game, the frying crit pan (you don't even need crit canteens with that thing).
Originally posted by Hell-met:
Originally posted by Iron:
The saving grace to demoknight (and many other classes)is the almighty crit canteen.

point and laugh in 3... 2... 1...

*points and laughs*
Big Shot! Jun 25, 2018 @ 11:25am 
Originally posted by Hell-met:
Originally posted by Iron:
The saving grace to demoknight (and many other classes)is the almighty crit canteen.

point and laugh in 3... 2... 1...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nxXEPk3dzFg
Originally posted by Iron:
Demoknight has VERY limited upgrades, so having a ton of money doesn't make it work. Demoknight weapons can be maxed for $4400 exactly, maxing the shield alone only costs $750.
And to compare :
- Soldier only needs $3150 with maxed reload, firing and damage.
- A Sticky or Grenade based Demo needs $3550 with the same upgrades as Soldier.
- Pyro only needs $2350 with maxed damage and ammo capacity.
- Heavy only needs $2150 with maxed firing speed and ammo capacity.

You can add $200-$400 for health on kill and $300 for one point in rocket specialist for the Soldier if you want, but that won't change the fact that Demoknight needs more money to reach full DPS potential (which is closer to $3900 with damage, swing speed and crits on kill maxed). And those other classes are still equally efficient before reaching maximum potential.

Originally posted by Iron:
The saving grace to demoknight (and many other classes) is the almighty crit canteen.
I'm going to explain why people are laughing at you here : you can make anything work with canteens. This includes Gunslinger Engie, Battle Medic and even Shotgun Heavy. Anyone can use canteens, it's not restricted to Demoknight. And others can even use canteens more efficiently than him. Additionally, you are adding an other cost on top of how expensive Demoknight is.

This is also an other reason why testing on Ghost Town doesn't work.

Originally posted by Iron:
As far as I can tell, a demoknight can take out a tank faster than a pyro, with a swing dealing 130 base damage every 0.4 seconds. I think the pyro does about 80 per 0.4 seconds, but I'm not 100% sure on that.
Crit melee deals 195 damage per swing, and Pyro have a base DPS of 150 damage without crits.
Fission Power Jun 25, 2018 @ 2:24pm 
Originally posted by Iron:
Demoknight is fun as hell in MVM.
Usually it's pain as hell in MvM, especially with high ping and melee enemies, or giant heavies.
Your suggested loadout is the most optimal, but also don't forget about scullcutter, with its +20% damage and having random crits it's cheap way to increase DPS, for example, against tanks.
Apparently people don't understand what I meant by saying that crit canteens are demoknight's saving grace. It makes him demolish giants and tanks, but I also said in parentheses that this was the case for many other classes. Apparently people are too dumb to read things in parentheses.
Originally posted by Quenquent the babysitter:
Originally posted by Iron:
Demoknight has VERY limited upgrades, so having a ton of money doesn't make it work. Demoknight weapons can be maxed for $4400 exactly, maxing the shield alone only costs $750.
And to compare :
- Soldier only needs $3150 with maxed reload, firing and damage.
- A Sticky or Grenade based Demo needs $3550 with the same upgrades as Soldier.
- Pyro only needs $2350 with maxed damage and ammo capacity.
- Heavy only needs $2150 with maxed firing speed and ammo capacity.

You can add $200-$400 for health on kill and $300 for one point in rocket specialist for the Soldier if you want, but that won't change the fact that Demoknight needs more money to reach full DPS potential (which is closer to $3900 with damage, swing speed and crits on kill maxed). And those other classes are still equally efficient before reaching maximum potential.

Originally posted by Iron:
The saving grace to demoknight (and many other classes) is the almighty crit canteen.
I'm going to explain why people are laughing at you here : you can make anything work with canteens. This includes Gunslinger Engie, Battle Medic and even Shotgun Heavy. Anyone can use canteens, it's not restricted to Demoknight. And others can even use canteens more efficiently than him. Additionally, you are adding an other cost on top of how expensive Demoknight is.

This is also an other reason why testing on Ghost Town doesn't work.

Originally posted by Iron:
As far as I can tell, a demoknight can take out a tank faster than a pyro, with a swing dealing 130 base damage every 0.4 seconds. I think the pyro does about 80 per 0.4 seconds, but I'm not 100% sure on that.
Crit melee deals 195 damage per swing, and Pyro have a base DPS of 150 damage without crits.
Wow, that's so amazing. You can upgrade some parts of Soldier for less than maxing out a Demoknight. I never knew that! Demoknight is so cheap to upgrade, I constantly have crit canteens ready, even though 4 sec. crits on kill makes them unneeded most of the time. You're also missing two giant things: Demoknight charges (no damage, fast speed, and removing debuffs), and NO AMMO IS EVER NEEDED. Also, crit melees deal 195 per swing IF YOU HAVEN'T UPGRADED THE DAMAGE. If you've maxed out the damage on a flamethrower, and this is assuming that Pyro does deal 150 unupgraded DPS, then Demoknights and Pyros have the same max upgraded DPS, about 300. Even in the original post, I said that I've heard the retarded reply of "don't be demoknight". The post was simply asking for the best demoknight mvm loadout, not statistics on how W + M1 is better.
MannsOverMeta Jun 25, 2018 @ 4:40pm 
Other classes don't matter. It's that you think crit canteens somehow elevate the value of a Demoknight.

no
Originally posted by MannsOverMeta (WEMP):
Other classes don't matter. It's that you think crit canteens somehow elevate the value of a Demoknight.

no
They totally do, simply because maxing demokight is so cheap that you can afford endless crit canteens.
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