Krater > General Discussions > Topic Details
DaetherX Jan 7, 2013 @ 5:04am
What Krater needs to be playable & enjoyable by a wider audience.
I don't throw around the word "need" the way most people do. The first group is needed to be playable by me. The others aren't "needed" they just make it playable on more computers and so on.

The thing(s) this game really NEEDS is:
1: Being able to pause the game.
2: Be able so see everything and have all information you have when you're not paused while you are.
3: To be able to rebind pause key. (I'm a fan of pause on SPACEBAR personally since I do it so much)
3.1: Make that fully rebindable keys.
4: The ability to use powers while the game is paused so your characters will start performing them once you unpause.

- I always hated action top-down rpg's until Neverwinter Nights (the first one) showed me they didn't have to suck like the others where I died every 2 seconds due to the fact I'm not physically capable of pressing the buttons and/or clicking fast or accurate enough. I suck at RTS games as well and don't play them vs humans for this reason.

- The Smartcast (or whatever it's called) being turned on doesn't help with anything but AoEs and in fact it often hinders non-AoE powers and makes using the powers impossible if you try clicking them with the mouse. In Krater I'm only on the second dungeon and I've already had a TPK. Good thing I set the game to easy! It's just that things go really wrong really fast in Krater unlike, say, Torchlight (or T2) which is fairly easy to see when things are going bad and you need to either run or heal.

5: Fully customizable graphics options. This is really something that's generally considered standard for PC games.

- The game looks good as far as the special effects that mostly go unnoticed until you wonder why the game is stuttering and hogging rescources when the maps/areas are so small. The blur effect due to objects being to the side or too far/close to where you're looking is cool and all, but it's one of the first things I'd turn off if I had a choice.

- I play War40k:DoW2 on all High gfx settings and I only get stuttering at the very beginning of a level for a few seconds until my guys exit the drop-pod then it's all smooth playing afterward, and no offense but that game looks much better overall on much bigger maps with detailed rain, lasers, explosions, smoke, and bullets flying & bodies littered everywhere.

6: A list of the default hotkeys in the manual all in one section. In case there's hotkeys I'm not aware of.
7: A guide to what boosters will actually do something when attached to powers.

- Game manuals and documentation from all developers and publishers have generally been sub-optimal for a really long time.

- I was stupid enough to try adding a damage booster +5% to Dr. Cerebro's AoE heal, though I had a feeling it wouldn't do anything beforehand. On the other hand I added a +Str booster to my Tanks wide arc hammer swing I thought would help... I don't think it does anything. I can't tell, hence the suggestion.

Closing: All that being said Krater is fun. I wouldn't necessarily disagree with the reviews... but sometimes a game is simply more FUN than any number can tell you. Or way less like the several uber-popular FPS game series which get great reviews but I think are bland garbage, lowest common denominator and all that.
Kids these days... *rambles on old man style for hours before nodding off* ZZzzzzzzzz
Last edited by DaetherX; Jan 7, 2013 @ 5:26am
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Showing 1-15 of 16 comments
wiredhands Jan 8, 2013 @ 4:43am 
the thing is, they could implement the combat pause in the single player game without it affecting anyone, I mean if you wanted to play without it, then you could and if you play with it, then you could. It wouldn't make much of a difference.
The only thing they have to consider here is, how much time(money) would it take to implement this, if it means a major overhaul of how the combat system works, how the graphics are done etc, then it probably wont happen because it will just take to much time to do compared to how much extra money they make from it. and it would probably be something they would instead add in a Krater 2 or Krater part 2 where they might do a complete overhaul of somethings

Naturally in coop mode there should be no such thing as combat pause

The str booster gives your tank a str boost making his other attack do more damage(if its the wide arc thing its in the boost should last something like 14 seconds), you should be able to see under his potrait that he has a str boost.
The damage booster in the aoeheal should make the heal deal damage to any mobs in the area where it heals, on top of the heal it does to your characters
[Fatshark] Alouatta  [developer] Jan 8, 2013 @ 6:47am 
Hi there. Thanks for constructive feedback. This is gold worth when developing games - much more informative than "your game suck, you suck, make it as D3". I mean, you can always clone D3 but can you even stop sucking once you started?

Anyway - on a more serious note. The pause/unpause were widely debated and we got a crude version for inhouse testing. But it felt as it had quite alot of work needed before it could be released properly. Will have to get back on the status of that one.

The key binding is causing us a lot of headache since it is full of bugs that prevents it from working properly. There's a plugin link in a sticky in this forum that might help you while we get this sorted.
Ezekial 🐸 Jan 8, 2013 @ 9:08pm 
"make it as D3"

I think no sane person would ever recommend that to another developer. Well, unless they REALLY hated them.
wiredhands Jan 9, 2013 @ 5:17am 
This is the internet, it's full of persons that aren't sane
[Fatshark] Alouatta  [developer] Jan 12, 2013 @ 1:05am 
Originally posted by -=Ezekial=-:
"make it as D3"

I think no sane person would ever recommend that to another developer. Well, unless they REALLY hated them.

Ooh you would only know. Our Customer Relations inbox are full of peculiar requests.
Hinkle Jan 12, 2013 @ 2:13am 
You can pause by just standing in a cleared area. I don't see the use for pausing during a mob fight unless you spill your drink or want to use pause as a cheat to make the game easier...

I do agree with nr 7 though. A better tooltip for what boosters actually do to your abilities would be nice.
DaetherX Jan 12, 2013 @ 6:17am 
You've missed the point of pausing in combat. I'm guessing you're a fan of those FPS's I mentioned, like playing RTS's vs people, and are in the 16-24yo male range.

As I said, I can't press the powers buttons and click on the mobs fast enough, nor keep my squad healed. For me the entire difficulty of the game is from not being able to control my guys fast or accurately enough. Games (the "game" part of them at least) are all about controlling what happens, what your characters do.

Your comment is kinda trollish calling me cheater because I want more tactical control over my squad. In the game world my characters would each have a brain of their own, theoretically. I mean I can clearly see Dr.Cerebros at least. They'd individually be able to see they need to use their powers to hit mobs as soon as they could. The healers and gunners would know to back up a bit and the brute do his job while healing and stunning at every opportunity. I haven't used the rogue class, but he'd also know to work his way behind to backstab then back off before he's threatened.

I mentioned War40k:DoW2... In that game you control 4 units and I find the action pacing good, but when the shooting begins playing co-op and keeping track of 2 units and all their abilities and their placement on the field is something I can keep track of and win on the highest difficulty, with all 4 by myself the bodies tend to pile up on the medium difficulty settings.

The title of this thread explains the other purpose of adding that feature: Fans of Action/Adventure RPG's already like this game and can continue to play it as-is, adding the ability to control your units effectively would draw in those who like Tactical/Strategy RPG's. More sales means the developers can work on games instead of having to pay the bills and rent with a different job cutting down the time they have to work on games we enjoy.

Neverwinter Nights, and later KOTOR were a couple of the best RPG's of all time and mixed the action combat with the ability to pause to take a look at what's happening and make an informed intelligent decision, rather than "Hulk Smash"-ing through an entire game. Not that I don't like smashing, chopping, stabbing, shooting, burning, electrocuting, tossing people and object across the room, and Force choking my way through things, but I like to be able to take the time to smell the burning corpses and enjoy the carnage in the middle of it all.
wiredhands Jan 12, 2013 @ 6:31am 
As far as combat pause in simgleplayer mode goes..
The only problem with it is the time it takes Fatshark to implement it (aka the money it costs).
Having it available in itself wont make problems for anyone as long as it is an optional thing.
If you don't want to use it, fine don't use it, the game will work as usual and you can have your fun the 'regular' way.
If you need to use it and like to be more tactical and micromanage your dudes and their actions, fine then use it.
Imo it will literally not break the singleplayer experience for ANYONE, in fact the direct opposite, it will make it more enjoyable for a wider audience, since the game will have both possibilities.

However, it shouldn't be available in coop play, since that would just slow that part of the game down and imo make a coop game kinda dull if the game is constantly getting paused.
But in the singleplayer mode, sure, bring it on, not all people are fast reaction super clickers ;)
Last edited by wiredhands; Jan 12, 2013 @ 6:31am
DaetherX Jan 12, 2013 @ 12:10pm 
I don't expect an update to implement what I'll refer to as "tactical pausing" in Krater because of the time is money thing when they could be working on something more critical. He said they were trying it out, so if they feel it's worth the trouble to work out the bugs and such who knows... Or maybe next game.

I agree Multi-Player pausing in such a fast paced game like Krater would probably be annoying.
Hinkle Jan 12, 2013 @ 12:19pm 
Thats a pretty bold assumption there. Guessing my age, gender and interests just because I disagree with you.

I don't think I have 'missed the point' of pause. If anything, maybe you have missed the point. Especially when I look at your request nr 4. Im sure the devs put a lot of time and testing in setting the difficulty levels of the game. And take a lot of factors into account, including the human ability and speed to asses situations and acting accordingly. To include your 'tactical pausing' idea would completely change the game mechanics and mess up the difficulty levels leaving us with a game that is less challenging and rewarding as a consequence.

Offcourse you can argue that 'we don't HAVE to use it'. But that's like saying if I a game is not challenging enough, we should just play it with one hand...
APoCaLyPSE NoW Jan 14, 2013 @ 10:01am 
This game is not for casual. Without this nice Steam community, who teached me on forum how to play safely, i already blacklisted this Krater. The "Krater" was real between me & Fatshark ^^.

I want pause option too because when you play, camera isn't able to do a nice job expecially when mobs try to flee, leading my team to next team of mobs nearest. Pause option is good when ranged & close combat become far. RTS don't allow to plan anything & game can be hard when your team isn't enought boosted & implanted.

After played a while (far to end the game), now i can say this game is addictive & one of the best. I hope Fatshark team will fix all bugs because if not, Fatshark will become skinny (no money from me) & they'll never get recommandation from me.

DLC are now for me useless. I expect more DLC like 15/15 for all classes at any merchant. I hate limitation 5/5-->10/10-->15/15. Only waste of time. And let all mercs with 15/15 is compatible with buying new mercs with new stat. That mean NPC merc seller is always usefull.
Robobro Feb 8, 2013 @ 4:21am 

sorry, my English is not very good..maybe.
Yesterday i played through the demo and now i want to buy the full version, though i "found" some Problems.
But Krater seems to be a lot of fun, and fatshark seems to be nice peoples, so i think they are willing to upgrade/mend the game even further.

DaetherX wrote:

"1: Being able to pause the game."

Exaktly! This was the first key i was looking for in the first combat. I thought that such a key is implemented already..

"3.1: Make that fully rebindable keys."

Yes, it shouldnt be any problem to map/bind keys freely. There are even external tools, which allows you to bind keys "global" and absolutely free - even the Mouse and Joypadkeys are bindable to the Keyboard - and vice versa..

"4: The ability to use powers while the game is paused so your characters will start performing them once you unpause."

Of course yes! This is the Feature i am missing the most in Krater. Even tho the fights are very easy until the end of the demo.

"5: Fully customizable graphics options. This is really something that's generally considered standard for PC games."

Yes please!

And last but not least, i agree with Daether that there should be more information on what upgrates do to my Chars. But -for me- that was not my biggest problem until the end of the demoversion.

Thanks at Daether for your constructive and to-the-point-critic!
DaetherX Feb 8, 2013 @ 9:28am 
Originally posted by APoCaLyPSE NoW:
DLC are now for me useless. I expect more DLC like 15/15 for all classes at any merchant. I hate limitation 5/5-->10/10-->15/15. Only waste of time. And let all mercs with 15/15 is compatible with buying new mercs with new stat. That mean NPC merc seller is always usefull.

Dr Cerebro medikus from the special version of Krater and the Mk13 Slayer both have unique powers which is supposed to be the draw as well as the max level cap. Cerebro has an area splash heal and an alternate other heal Nano Injection instead of Nano Stream, and Mk13 has a back-stab that does 3x damage from behind and builds up points and a laser eye thing that uses the points to deal more damage.
Unfortunately, because I can't control my characters well enough I can't position Mk13 behind enemies to use him to full potential, so he's just a bench-warmer.

Ukewa, your welcome. All of my deaths and near deaths I have felt were because of not being able to control my characters well enough, or at least pause to see what's going on, but I've mostly gotten used to it except the all too often event when my characters decide to run around by themselves drawing more groups of enemies to attack them.
Robobro Feb 15, 2013 @ 8:44am 

yes its possible to manage. But for me it is also a little bit stressful.
Some of the abilitys cooldown are short as hell. I think they should be more mighty - but with longer cooldowns. In Battles, i'm perpetual pressing keys - because i can. But it should be more tactically - more "i-have-the-full-control"-ally ..*hem*
More situations (in battles) where you have to think about what you are doing, to think about which skills are best in that situation, or something like that.

I really hope my english is comprehensible :-)

" characters decide to run around by themselves drawing more groups of enemies to attack them."

I also had that problem several times. But beside that, i had no bad AI-proplems in battles.

However - The game is fun! And the price is fair.
Last edited by Robobro; Feb 15, 2013 @ 8:55am
nightlordv Feb 18, 2013 @ 11:45pm 
I would have enjoyed this game more if it wasn't for the fact the enemies respawn every single time you wipe and you have to go back to the area again and do it all over again. Not very fun.
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Krater > General Discussions > Topic Details
Date Posted: Jan 7, 2013 @ 5:04am
Posts: 16