Metro Exodus

Metro Exodus

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Why would killing cultist loose karma points?
They've killed many "heretic" for no reason, and tried to kill me upon first contact, is there supposed to be any moral debate about fighting back and give them what they deserves?
Zuletzt bearbeitet von Ju87gstukas; 24. Juni 2020 um 8:50
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Beiträge 115 von 19
Yes, they are not inherently evil. They didn't kill Katya or her daughter outright.

You should talk to more of them around the map of Volga, you'll see that they're mostly just misunderstood. Many of them lived before the bombs of 2013 and know that not all technology is evil. Read the journal pages and you'll learn that they were not originally anti-technology even after the bombs dropped. Politics caused this change in their village.

Their agenda is not entirely wrong, unfettered proliferation of technology is an existential threat to humanity at this moment.

Think of them like the Amish, but having to survive in post nuclear Russia.
Zuletzt bearbeitet von Jig McGalliger; 24. Juni 2020 um 10:52
Ragnarok 24. Juni 2020 um 14:57 
They're basically terrified of you and your compatriots because you destroyed the barricade they had on the tracks with a train and potentially slaughtered them at the church, they have no idea if you're another crew of bandits out to kill them all, and the raving nutjob who has enough people convinced he's right to basically be able to sentence them to death at will is ordering them to fight you.
On the plus side you can kill their God so.
.
Ursprünglich geschrieben von Ragnarok:
They're basically terrified of you and your compatriots because you destroyed the barricade they had on the tracks with a train and potentially slaughtered them at the church, they have no idea if you're another crew of bandits out to kill them all, and the raving nutjob who has enough people convinced he's right to basically be able to sentence them to death at will is ordering them to fight you.
On the plus side you can kill their God so.
.
Wait they actually worship a "god" that exists in the game universe?
Zuletzt bearbeitet von Ju87gstukas; 25. Juni 2020 um 2:48
Tamaster 25. Juni 2020 um 5:37 
The karma system of Exodus is TRASH.

Previous games did not force you to stealth entire maps to get the good ending. No sir! Played 2033 and Last Light 3 times each and I know very well how it was!

Here instead to get the good ending you MUST stealth / pacifist 70% of the ENTIRE GAME. Don't trust me then google it.

You had the Dark Ones judging you in the previous 2 games. Here there is no superior power to do so! And yetyour companions MAGICALLY decide things based on facts they did not even witness because they were on completely different places. Makes 0 sense.

Why? Because f**k you that's why! The game is overall great of course but this "new" karma system sucks.
Zuletzt bearbeitet von Tamaster; 25. Juni 2020 um 5:39
Ursprünglich geschrieben von Ju87gstukas:
Ursprünglich geschrieben von Ragnarok:
They're basically terrified of you and your compatriots because you destroyed the barricade they had on the tracks with a train and potentially slaughtered them at the church, they have no idea if you're another crew of bandits out to kill them all, and the raving nutjob who has enough people convinced he's right to basically be able to sentence them to death at will is ordering them to fight you.
On the plus side you can kill their God so.
.
Wait they actually worship a "god" that exists in the game universe?

It's the giant murder-fish - it's been a while but they either think it's a god or an instrument of god's will. Google how to kill it, because your standard weapons won't cut it.



Ursprünglich geschrieben von Tamaster:
The karma system of Exodus is TRASH.

Previous games did not force you to stealth entire maps to get the good ending. No sir! Played 2033 and Last Light 3 times each and I know very well how it was!

Here instead to get the good ending you MUST stealth / pacifist 70% of the ENTIRE GAME. Don't trust me then google it.

You had the Dark Ones judging you in the previous 2 games. Here there is no superior power to do so! And yetyour companions MAGICALLY decide things based on facts they did not even witness because they were on completely different places. Makes 0 sense.

Why? Because f**k you that's why! The game is overall great of course but this "new" karma system sucks.

Um...that's not what happens.

In Volga, killing the cultists makes Silantius hostile and Duke is wounded, choosing to stay behind and operate the bridge.

In Caspian, the increased suffering you cause by murdering slaves and the like makes Damir want to stay to help them earn their freedom from the oilmen.

In Taiga, murdering the Forest Children makes Olga hostile, and Alyosha is injured and can't give blood at the end.

Also, you're free to murder bandits, the cannibals, and munai-bailer, the game doesn't care about them since they're ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥. Stealth is recommended because you have low health and not a great deal of ammo by the standards of most FPS games, but you're still allowed to kill the ones who are not conscripted, enslaved, or simply defending their territory from 'bandits'.
Ursprünglich geschrieben von Tamaster:
The karma system of Exodus is TRASH.

Previous games did not force you to stealth entire maps to get the good ending. No sir! Played 2033 and Last Light 3 times each and I know very well how it was!

Here instead to get the good ending you MUST stealth / pacifist 70% of the ENTIRE GAME. Don't trust me then google it.

You had the Dark Ones judging you in the previous 2 games. Here there is no superior power to do so! And yetyour companions MAGICALLY decide things based on facts they did not even witness because they were on completely different places. Makes 0 sense.

Why? Because f**k you that's why! The game is overall great of course but this "new" karma system sucks.
This guy is wrong, the good or bad ending depends on how many of your crewmates stick with you and provide you blood in the end. If you're evil, you don't inspire them to follow your lead, resulting in their death, departure, or injury, therefore sealing your fate at the end

Also, there isn't exactly a "good" or "bad" ending, it all depends on your point of view. Try to get a better understanding of things before you make your judgement.
Zuletzt bearbeitet von Jig McGalliger; 25. Juni 2020 um 11:18
cuss 26. Juni 2020 um 8:36 
It's an ethical question. Like the Christian Jesus said, "Father, forgive them, for they know not what they do". Those people aren't inherently evil. They just don't know any better. So it's best to spare them, and by that act of mercy, they might learn and grow. Besides, stealthing the church is fun. Those guards are really dumb.
Ursprünglich geschrieben von cuss:
It's an ethical question. Like the Christian Jesus said, "Father, forgive them, for they know not what they do". Those people aren't inherently evil. They just don't know any better. So it's best to spare them, and by that act of mercy, they might learn and grow. Besides, stealthing the church is fun. Those guards are really dumb.
What about those who are forced to "fight" the "devil" and died? By forced to show mercy in order to save Duke, these deaths are not avenged, wouldn't it be better to at least allow me to kill father Silantius in the end?
I kind of go for the lex talionis, so if anything sounds too harsh for you, know I did not mean it personally.
cuss 27. Juni 2020 um 5:21 
Ursprünglich geschrieben von Ju87gstukas:
Ursprünglich geschrieben von cuss:
It's an ethical question. Like the Christian Jesus said, "Father, forgive them, for they know not what they do". Those people aren't inherently evil. They just don't know any better. So it's best to spare them, and by that act of mercy, they might learn and grow. Besides, stealthing the church is fun. Those guards are really dumb.
What about those who are forced to "fight" the "devil" and died? By forced to show mercy in order to save Duke, these deaths are not avenged, wouldn't it be better to at least allow me to kill father Silantius in the end?
I kind of go for the lex talionis, so if anything sounds too harsh for you, know I did not mean it personally.

haha. no sweat, i agree. my first playthrough i killed them all just on principle. i took 'both eyes'. but, this is Metro and karma matters. and Silantius? why bother? kill him and another nut will take his place. maybe a worse one. he does at least care about his flock (in his own twisted way).
Ursprünglich geschrieben von Ju87gstukas:
Ursprünglich geschrieben von cuss:
It's an ethical question. Like the Christian Jesus said, "Father, forgive them, for they know not what they do". Those people aren't inherently evil. They just don't know any better. So it's best to spare them, and by that act of mercy, they might learn and grow. Besides, stealthing the church is fun. Those guards are really dumb.
What about those who are forced to "fight" the "devil" and died? By forced to show mercy in order to save Duke, these deaths are not avenged, wouldn't it be better to at least allow me to kill father Silantius in the end?
I kind of go for the lex talionis, so if anything sounds too harsh for you, know I did not mean it personally.

You gain nothing from killing the people in the cult who are terrified of you. Nor by killing Silantius at the one moment it's possible, since he is lowering the bridge and ordering the cultists not to shoot at you.
If you don't murder the cultists and listen to them you understand more about their lives and how quite a few of them don't buy into the cult's beliefs but go along because those who do are the power in the region.
Ursprünglich geschrieben von Ragnarok:
Ursprünglich geschrieben von Ju87gstukas:
What about those who are forced to "fight" the "devil" and died? By forced to show mercy in order to save Duke, these deaths are not avenged, wouldn't it be better to at least allow me to kill father Silantius in the end?
I kind of go for the lex talionis, so if anything sounds too harsh for you, know I did not mean it personally.

You gain nothing from killing the people in the cult who are terrified of you. Nor by killing Silantius at the one moment it's possible, since he is lowering the bridge and ordering the cultists not to shoot at you.
If you don't murder the cultists and listen to them you understand more about their lives and how quite a few of them don't buy into the cult's beliefs but go along because those who do are the power in the region.
I am indeed confused by the karma system, now that I've finished the "forest children" chapter, the confusion is even stronger. I saved the bandit in the beginning, which gives me good karma, then the bandit I saved gathered his boys and literally slaughtered the pioneer camp, and I saved the pioneer survivor, the system gave me a good karma, again.
Was is not the option that I saved the bandit lead to the death of the pioneers? And the system rewarded me with another "good" karma???
Ursprünglich geschrieben von Ju87gstukas:
Ursprünglich geschrieben von Ragnarok:

You gain nothing from killing the people in the cult who are terrified of you. Nor by killing Silantius at the one moment it's possible, since he is lowering the bridge and ordering the cultists not to shoot at you.
If you don't murder the cultists and listen to them you understand more about their lives and how quite a few of them don't buy into the cult's beliefs but go along because those who do are the power in the region.
I am indeed confused by the karma system, now that I've finished the "forest children" chapter, the confusion is even stronger. I saved the bandit in the beginning, which gives me good karma, then the bandit I saved gathered his boys and literally slaughtered the pioneer camp, and I saved the pioneer survivor, the system gave me a good karma, again.
Was is not the option that I saved the bandit lead to the death of the pioneers? And the system rewarded me with another "good" karma???

Different gang of bandits - the pioneers in that instance are killed regardless of what you do to the first bandit.
Ursprünglich geschrieben von Ragnarok:
Different gang of bandits
Actually, if you save the bandit at the start, you find him drunk on coast in the town before the church where the rest of his crew is. He is not torturing pioneers but it is the same bandit gang.

The karma system is not exactly what is "good" or "bad" but more about taking the actions that are canon to Artyom's nature. Inherently, he saves those in need.
Zuletzt bearbeitet von Jig McGalliger; 28. Juni 2020 um 12:03
cuss 28. Juni 2020 um 19:51 
Ursprünglich geschrieben von Jig McGalliger:
Ursprünglich geschrieben von Ragnarok:
Different gang of bandits
Actually, if you save the bandit at the start, you find him drunk on coast in the town before the church where the rest of his crew is. He is not torturing pioneers but it is the same bandit gang.

The karma system is not exactly what is "good" or "bad" but more about taking the actions that are canon to Artyom's nature. Inherently, he saves those in need.

yes. i found that bandit sitting at a table below the bandit camp before the church. he was drunk and his friends were dead after what looked like a drunken quarrel. the karma system isn't about Artyom being an 'avenging angel'. he's just one man with principles trying to get from point A to point B without doing too much harm.
OP: The player loses karma when killing a cultist because that's the way the _devs_ want it.

Throughout the game, the design has emphasized the Real World Soviet paranoia. Everywhere the player character and his comrades go, they run into the near-universal attitude of, "If someone is not one of us already, then he is most likely an enemy. And just to be on the safe side, we should kill strangers on sight." The devs seem to think that if the common people are "just following orders" of their superior officers and leaders, those common people are _technically_ "innocent". [Like we should forgive the guards of the concentration camps because they were "just following orders"?]
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