Urban War Defense

Urban War Defense

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Mellow_Online1 Nov 18, 2018 @ 5:57am
Regarding Key Retractions
Just decided to make a seperate post because of the main one getting flooded with (rightfully) angry purchasers.

I am an outsider looking in but I'll say that the retraction of keys is a pretty big mistake on the developer's part. Regardless of if sites like IndieGala gave you payments or not, this should be a matter taken up between the developer and IndieGala (as you stated that you had yet to engage in communications with them about the matter which makes the whole key retractions come off as reactionary rather than something fully thought through.)

You're saying IndieGala did this intentionally to make you look bad when they accepted purchases from buyers, but no distributor will predict that the main approach a developer to take would be to revoke over 20,000 keys which then drags the consumers into a large enough mess unnecessarily and leaves them without a game that they purchased through legitimate methods (as a business deal was made between both you, the developer, and the distribution sites hosting the game/keys.)

You're getting criticism for revoking keys and leaving people that paid money for a game with no game and out of pocket and frankly it seems like righteous criticism as IndieGala didn't force you to do this, there were other methods you could have taken to go about doing this as cases like Death Penalty: Beginning have shown in the past actions like this don't help the developer.

I do hope that you're able to sort your stuff out with the distributor and that the customers that bought into this will get their game reinstated and/or get equivalent reimbursement. I will be contacting Valve about this though to investigate the legitimacy of this kind of retraction.

MAJOR UPDATE FOR ALL KEY PURCHASERS

I've heard back from Tom Giardino from Valve regarding the matter. They have declined hearing any word from the dev about requesting for help on the matter (however he did state he had yet to fully check through Valve's help line.)

He stated that Valve will be more than happy to assist the developer to sort the issue out with reinstating access to the keys where necessary with the developer's compliance.
Last edited by Mellow_Online1; Nov 19, 2018 @ 5:02pm
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Showing 1-15 of 156 comments
Coyote30 Nov 18, 2018 @ 6:00am 
The dev revoked ALL keys as people who got it on Groupees had theirs revoked, too. I legitimately bought TWO bundles with this game in it and I don't have a single working key now because of these actions. That's simply unacceptable.
Last edited by Coyote30; Nov 18, 2018 @ 6:00am
Madjoki Nov 18, 2018 @ 6:16am 
Well, that's what non-paying sites bank on, people complaining to dev instead of them. If you buy from Indie Gala, dev has no legal responsibility over key to you, only to indie gala, who in turn has responsibilty to you.
Last edited by Madjoki; Nov 18, 2018 @ 6:16am
Mellow_Online1 Nov 18, 2018 @ 6:23am 
Originally posted by Madjoki:
Well, that's what non-paying sites bank on, people complaining to dev instead of them. If you buy from Indie Gala, dev has no legal responsibility over key to you, only to indie gala, who in turn has responsibilty to you.
That's partly true but partly untrue.

The sites have a responsibility to get the key to you, but that's it. The developer is accountable and responsible in this instance for revoking the keys.

I think if the sites were indeed withholding payments from the developer then it is a bad situation for the developer, but revoking the keys is not solving anything. All it does is punish an innocent party and make more people get mad.
Eviction Notice Nov 18, 2018 @ 6:23am 
Honestly, I sort of forgot about this game until this recent event. I bought it over a year and a half ago and it's still in Early Access with only a couple of small updates since and no recent posts from the developer about future plans. The store page indicated it would be about 6 months to release.
Approximately how long will this game be in Early Access?
“It is likely to take a around half a year at least but probably more as a majority of levels still need to be made as well as game play improvements and additions.”
I would say anyone who bought the game, revoked or not was probably scammed in some way here, just not as obvious. Also, the date of the last small update just happens to be Nov 18, 2017. A coincidence this is exactly 1 year later?
https://steamcommunity.com/games/397760/announcements/detail/2922136221161197130
Last edited by Eviction Notice; Nov 18, 2018 @ 6:24am
MissDefi Nov 18, 2018 @ 6:29am 
yeah he punishes the consumer when he revokes keys..not the merchant. This has been a trend for Devs recently. Thank goodness I never got the bundle but I had to say something for others who spent their money for these keys. These devs should be ashamed of themselves.
Madjoki Nov 18, 2018 @ 6:30am 
Originally posted by Mellow_Online1:
Originally posted by Madjoki:
Well, that's what non-paying sites bank on, people complaining to dev instead of them. If you buy from Indie Gala, dev has no legal responsibility over key to you, only to indie gala, who in turn has responsibilty to you.
That's partly true but partly untrue.

The sites have a responsibility to get the key to you, but that's it. The developer is accountable and responsible in this instance for revoking the keys.

I think if the sites were indeed withholding payments from the developer then it is a bad situation for the developer, but revoking the keys is not solving anything. All it does is punish an innocent party and make more people get mad.

I mean yeah, he should've at least try to solve issue with sites before revoking keys as it's such extreme action.

If he wasn't paid by IG, it's more likely a mistake than intentional as they usually do pay on time. (Groupees has had issues paying in past and having devs to chase payments from long times).
SrMilagro Nov 18, 2018 @ 6:45am 
Originally posted by Mellow_Online1:
I will be contacting Valve about this though to investigate the legitimacy of this kind of retraction.

It show us how the system works, and how unprotected we are as steam users (and probably any other similar digital service), every single dev can just revoke all the keys of his game just because... something...

Originally posted by Sigoya:
Indeed. I'm wondering what kind of tools and check/balances are set in place to allow a Developer to revoke keys without some proof. Eitherway, the end customer (Steam customers) cannot be punished for a resellers' actions.


Originally posted by Coyote30:
It's more and more obvious that the power to mass revoke keys should only be in the hands of Valve themselves instead of single devs.

This is the biggest thing about this.
Last edited by SrMilagro; Nov 18, 2018 @ 6:46am
Mellow_Online1 Nov 18, 2018 @ 6:46am 
Originally posted by Speedxic:
https://ec.europa.eu/consumers/odr/main/index.cfm?event=main.complaints.screeningphase
In all honesty, that is useless as neither the developer nor IndieGala/Groupees are centrally based in the EU and therefore the complaint can't be filed out.
Madjoki Nov 18, 2018 @ 6:51am 
Originally posted by Mellow_Online1:
Originally posted by Speedxic:
https://ec.europa.eu/consumers/odr/main/index.cfm?event=main.complaints.screeningphase
In all honesty, that is useless as neither the developer nor IndieGala/Groupees are centrally based in the EU and therefore the complaint can't be filed out.

Italy is in EU.
A dJ Nov 18, 2018 @ 6:51am 
Originally posted by SrMilagro:

Originally posted by Coyote30:
It's more and more obvious that the power to mass revoke keys should only be in the hands of Valve themselves instead of single devs.

This is the biggest thing about this.

I would even go a step further and demand a finished product, meaning they can't alter files on your pc retroactively. Fixes, and minor updates not withstanding. It has happened that on occasion a game has been changed into something else entirely even after it was released as finished product. Insanity.
Speedxic Nov 18, 2018 @ 6:52am 
Originally posted by Mellow_Online1:
Originally posted by Speedxic:
https://ec.europa.eu/consumers/odr/main/index.cfm?event=main.complaints.screeningphase
In all honesty, that is useless as neither the developer nor IndieGala/Groupees are centrally based in the EU and therefore the complaint can't be filed out.

Indiegala is an Italian company. The dev seems to be from Wales {LINK REMOVED}.

And of course, this is a problem for Valve too. They are allowing key revocations much too easily. They should first have their legal team (which they certainly have) check if endusers don't get involved into something they should not need to bother about.
Last edited by Speedxic; Nov 18, 2018 @ 6:56am
Mellow_Online1 Nov 18, 2018 @ 6:53am 
Originally posted by Madjoki:
Originally posted by Mellow_Online1:
In all honesty, that is useless as neither the developer nor IndieGala/Groupees are centrally based in the EU and therefore the complaint can't be filed out.

Italy is in EU.
If any of those sites are based there, they aren't showing up in the trader listings on the site, which is what's preventing filings.
Madjoki Nov 18, 2018 @ 6:54am 
Nope

You can search our records using the trader's name or website. If we have the trader's details, they will be filled out automatically in the form below.

If not, you can give us the trader's details.

But still no way it's worth doing that.
Mellow_Online1 Nov 18, 2018 @ 6:58am 
Originally posted by Madjoki:
Nope

You can search our records using the trader's name or website. If we have the trader's details, they will be filled out automatically in the form below.

If not, you can give us the trader's details.

But still no way it's worth doing that.
Fair enough.

If people want to fill that in I guess there's no big problem with it, but I'll continue pursuing it directly with Valve as it will probably be more effective as a first go to than filing it to European Commission.
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