Submarines are completely OP

[Nechlord]

Playing as a facist dutch in multiplayer vs usa, france britain and rest of the allies, we don't attack france we sea lion britain, the dutch submarine fleet of 50 kills the entire british army and most of their navy solo. Current issue is that the subs are literally too fast for the destroyers to fight so they do a ton of damage then just retreat from the destroyers before the subs are destroyed. Its op as hell.

[Shiro]

Well my first MTG game went something like this (Singleplayer):
1. Playing as Japan
2. Sucessfully invade China
3. Build a strong balanced navy
4. Declare war on the US in 1942
5. Lose 1k Convoys in a few months and have a deficit of 300 iron
6. Cry in a corner

Your observation of the problem is correct. Subs just go into the battle, torp everything, and then retreat with none or very little casualities.

[Tram]

Try to create destroyers whose sole role is to hunt subs, probably wont work as intended because para--- the hoi4 dev team seriously cant develop their game properly without screwing up everything.

[Shiro]

Originally posted by Tram:

Try to create destroyers whose sole role is to hunt subs, probably wont work as intended because para--- the hoi4 dev team seriously cant develop their game properly without screwing up everything.

Well i sunk like 50 Subs with super anti-sub destroyers, but it just isn't enough because subs get produced way to fast and it doesn't help protecting your convoys.

[Tram]

Honestly, wait till mods, vanilla have always been trash. Now however its an update that you cant avoid and if you dont use MTG you get screwed over either way.

But as the dev team continue to show, they can neither balance focuses, units, program the ai so its not ♥♥♥♥, or just not break their game whenever they stroke it.

[Shiro]

I just don't get how they did not see this while playing themselves, it literally took me ONE game to realize subs are busted.

[Tram]

You make it seem like they actually played it, and just didnt go "Yeah this seems like what happened during WW2, totally reasonable"
Also heres something from one of my friends with the US of Interventionist A.

"removed the depression by 1938
>congress
>has435 reps supporting
>63 senators supporting
balanced"

[𝐬𝐭𝐞𝐠𝐞]

Yep, UK is kaput in multplayer games ^^

[Damedius]

Really? Did they get buffed?

I found pre patch carriers were OP. 2 Carriers with a couple screens could wipe entire fleets.

[salad fork]

You need dedicated sub hunter ships with maxed detection and speed. You can manually set trade and transport routes away from Deep Oceans where subs get bonuses and drop loads of mines there which will annihalate the subs.

[Shiro]

Originally posted by Damedius:

Really? Did they get buffed?

I found pre patch carriers were OP. 2 Carriers with a couple screens could wipe entire fleets.

Carriers always were kinda op, but they had some limitations like max. 4 per battle and high building costs, Also they could be countered by enemy carriers which every big nation should have. historically carriers ARE supposed to be really strong because thats just how it is, this usually didn't autowin you the game though just because you had naval dominance.

The problem with submarines atm is that they are to good overall and have no real downsides. Also keeping countries from vital ressources via raiding does in fact make you lose the game.

[velasquezt43]

So, submarines are useful now? They just don't get slaughtered as fast as you can make them? Well, they often go too far the other way when fixing something so maybe they'll balance it in the coming weeks.

[GoldenTalon]

So subs went from being useless pre-MtG to completely OP. Classic Paradox!

[Captain of the 4th Company]

Originally posted by GoldenTalon:

So subs went from being useless pre-MtG to completely OP. Classic Paradox!

What did you expect? Thats just how they work. I wonder if they played the game before release at all...

[Bravo]

I didn't build a single ship until like 1943 as Britain (I was messing around with a pacifist approach whilst Federalising) Japan had around 400 ships when they declared war on me, by the end of 1943 my submarines had sunk every single one of them for the loss of literally 3 (maybe a couple of old DDs etc as well, didn't pay attention to non-subs).

Then you can factor in the ability to build a submarine what, every 6 days or something? There is nothing else worth building right now, you spit out subs so fast even if someone dedicated anti-subs you, you're still going to sink most of his ASW and have a massive surplus of subs.

[GoldenTalon]

Originally posted by Captain of the 4th Company:

Originally posted by GoldenTalon:

So subs went from being useless pre-MtG to completely OP. Classic Paradox!

What did you expect? Thats just how they work. I wonder if they played the game before release at all...

They usually don't.

Originally posted by Bravo:

I didn't build a single ship until like 1943 as Britain (I was messing around with a pacifist approach whilst Federalising) Japan had around 400 ships when they declared war on me, by the end of 1943 my submarines had sunk every single one of them for the loss of literally 3 (maybe a couple of old DDs etc as well, didn't pay attention to non-subs).

Then you can factor in the ability to build a submarine what, every 6 days or something? There is nothing else worth building right now, you spit out subs so fast even if someone dedicated anti-subs you, you're still going to sink most of his ASW and have a massive surplus of subs.

What a mess.