RIFT > General Discussions > Topic Details
Rift is "free to play" and "pay to win"
Free-to-play refers to any video game or social or mobile application that has the option of allowing its users (players) to download or play without paying.

Games that let you buy better gear or allow you to make better items then everyone else at a faster rate and then makes the game largely unbalanced even for people who have skill in the game without paying.

Yes, it is free to play. However, the title "free to play" can be applied to demo's and games that allow you to play a limited version of the game. For example, World of Warcraft is free to play because it lets you download the entire game and play for free till level 20. That is by definition "free to play".

A little background story, skip to the next part if you don't want to hear my rant.

Some time between 2000 and 2010 some pathetic rich kids started getting the idea that buying gold and accounts just to feel like they are successful became popular. I think those are the worst types of people because they DO NOT play the game the way it is meant to be and just "Pay to Win". I remember, I sold my EQ account for $800 to some pathetic middleman just to resell it to some POS worthless kid for what I would expect over $1000.

These spoiled worthless dumb brats started to outnumber the actual gamers and created a new meta that game producers could use to make more money. These corrupt producers started creating a system that catered to the rich spoiled kids while not scaring the gamers away. This new system was the HORRENDOUS GRIND FOR EVERYTHING!! Yes, the way made games more about grinding than actual content. This evolution in gaming gave more power to cheaters and "pay to win" players.

If you've ever played any MMO, then you are very familiar with botters and gold sellers. This could easily be countered by capping the limit of gold one can grind per day, or giving everyone a limited number of ridiculous hours they are allowed to play per week(80hrs/week max). Isolate level 1 characters from advertising/communicating to random people. Another solution would be instead of selling warcraft accounts to Chinese/foreign players for 25 cents per account, make them pay the same amount as Americans or play on their isolated servers (did you seriously think majority of Chinese poverty could afford a $60-$120 Warcraft account with expansions?). It has been suggested, and the creators decided to just ignore any ideas to reduce botters or gold sellers. Possibly because the game companies have figured it produces more money by having "pay to win" customers. In my opinion; if Blizzard didn't want Gold Sellers, then they could have easily stopped them. In short, it's all about reducing these bad aspects, not removing them altogether because that would be impossible.

Ok, rant done.

Similar to Diablo 3, what Rift has actually done is create a RMAH.
That is, players can freely use real money to buy items or plats/gold in game.

So, the only way to play the game is to buy your stuff with real money; get carried; or don't expect to play in any end game content this century. This game is not as bad as Diablo 3, but it's similar.

Now, your objection is that these players can't buy the end game gear, and most end game players don't buy stuff from Rift Store. That is true and false at the same time. There are some end game gear parts that comes exclusively from the Rift Store. For example: Runes, Vials, Augments, and Recipe Reagents. The idea that any player started from scratch, earned 1000pp to trade for RX to use the AH, then farmed more plats to get the 3000pp SL Souls, then farmed more plats to get the rest.. Is kinda ridiculous, but possible...

Sadly for me, I am "pay to win". My gear, which I purchased, is on par with Raid T1 gear. After I hit 60, I had purchased gear good enough to break 10k dps and clear TDQ without anyone suspecting I was a fresh 60. It's kinda sad that my crafted blue/purple gear is better by a large margin than ALL of the Expert Dungeon drops.
(the idea that you can just buy your way into entry level raiding is a known fact)

To be honest, I like this game just enough to keep playing, just barely enough.. Lately, I came across upgrading my runes to the BiS, but the recipe's require mats that are exclusively from the Rift Store. Hrm... I thought all the BiS items were never going to be from the Rift Store?

links to:
and click on Runes tab

Most of the BiS runes require mats come from Rift Store. However, you can buy them from the RMAH for about $4 each. Since you have a lot of different types of armor, all requiring Runes... Then if you ever get upgrades, it costs $2 for a rift only item that removes the rune to be reused. I don't know anybody in game that doesn't use credits to buy rift store items.

In short, we are playing with a pure RMAH/"gold selling" system that is disguised as "free to play". If you are too ignorant to figure it out, then let me summarize: "Pay to Win" players are just paying for your accounts. So, the content is going to include tons of expensive rewards that nobody can realistically buy, but the "Pay to Win" players are going to have them just to show off our bling. Would you like to see my ferrari?


We could race, but we both know I have better skill than you and would win. Just like my new runes will give me the skill to beat you in dps too.
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Showing 1-15 of 192 comments
slothworx Jan 22, 2014 @ 6:33am 
Originally posted by charliechuckleberry:
In my opinion; if Blizzard didn't want Gold Sellers, then they could have easily stopped them.

Its not that easy I guess...
ItzCrooK2UxD Jan 22, 2014 @ 6:54am 
I LOL when I hear MMO players cry about P2W.

First off, I have yet to see so much as a "You Win" outside of a warfront or conquest. I have never seen anything that tells me I win when I run dungeons or raids, and thinking about it I don't think I've seen anything about winning when running quests or crafting either. So what is this "Win" that people cry about?

Runes, augments and vials are all available on the auction house (including those BiS runes), and are not exclusive to those who support development. The T1 raid gear that is for sale in the store is NOT BiS, and the best gear is not purchasable.

Lastly people who buy their gear generally speaking lack the skill or time to earn the gear, so go grab that Ferrari, and I'll teach ya to drive it. Til then if you want to talk about P2W check out some old Facebook/Myspace apps like Mobsters. You could literally buy 5k people to fight with (The limit was 500 to fight with but you can purchase more) and never lose a fight. Thats P2W. Rift is definitely not P2W.

Clockwork Jan 22, 2014 @ 7:58am 
You are complaining about a problem that you have helped prosper..... irony here? Also what is your point, you made a conclusion to your thread but didn't state having a stand on anything..? Anyone who spends more than 10 minutes looking at the cash shop can see Rift offers a pay to win selection of items and upgrades. Exp potions being one of them.
Last edited by Clockwork; Jan 22, 2014 @ 7:58am
ItzCrooK2UxD Jan 22, 2014 @ 11:05am 
XP pots aren't P2W, but pay to grind less. You do not NEED the pots to progress, or to be competitive.
Clockwork Jan 22, 2014 @ 11:27am 
well, lets say you start the game with a new character with 3 of your friends and they are either patrons or buying stuff from the store, what level will you be when they are 60. I wouldn't call that being very competitive.
ItzCrooK2UxD Jan 22, 2014 @ 11:34am 
The patron pot gives them +40% XP for 2 hours. My suggestion would be to play an hour a day longer than your friends if you are competitively leveling. But to most leveling is not a competitive thing, but a step towards becoming competitive. Now if you could buy +20% DPS/HPS pots that would be P2W, but selling pots so you grind less is far from P2W. Even then it won't make you a better player, just hide your deficiencies.
Last edited by ItzCrooK2UxD; Jan 22, 2014 @ 11:37am
SwobyJ Jan 22, 2014 @ 12:04pm 
What a bizarre thread.
Premium Jan 22, 2014 @ 2:02pm 
You can grind for plat to buy REX to get everything. You can get EVERYTHING without paying a cent.

Also you will play this game for hundreds of hours, if you cant afford to toss money at something you will spend hundreds of hours on TURN OFF THE GAME AND GET A JOB.

((I've spent 70 bucks this week and all of it was for vanity items and expansion souls - GET A JOB))
Jasperline Jan 22, 2014 @ 2:15pm 
Originally posted by Food Stamps:
You can grind for plat to buy REX to get everything. You can get EVERYTHING without paying a cent.

Also you will play this game for hundreds of hours, if you cant afford to toss money at something you will spend hundreds of hours on TURN OFF THE GAME AND GET A JOB.

((I've spent 70 bucks this week and all of it was for vanity items and expansion souls - GET A JOB))

Stop with the "GET A JOB" some people DO work, but don't have the availability to add extra expenses. You can spend the extra cash, congrats.

The game isn't P2W, otherwise I'd have the best gear available. I don't spend money in the Rift store, more because I can't afford the "extras" but if I want to get something I can GRIND the INGAME money to GET the SAME thing EVERYONE else has.
Clockwork Jan 22, 2014 @ 2:22pm 
either way, its an opinion as to wether or not to consider xp pots as a pay 2 win, on the other hand I will say that some of the microtransactions are a bit shady, the fact that gear of any type is even offered.

Anyways, bashing parts of Rifts Microtransaction store doesn't mean it reflects the game content or gameplay. I'm having a blast with Rift and I enjoy the game and would recommend it to others.

Do some of their Microtransactions effect gameplay? Yes, but at a very minimal level. Could they trim the fat inside their store"aka get rid of costumes with same skin as in game items, get rid of equipment."Yeah, they could stand to do that.

Biggest problem with free to play games is the ability to buy an item or currency with real money and trade it on the AH. This is a Real money sink for botters/multiboxers. In the end it will inflate the the cost of the Ah tradeable items and in turn inflate the economy. Meaning that rex will continually be worth less and less even though over time you will be able to get more Plats per rex. Thos plats will buy you less.

This method has been done in other mmos, and its usually a sign that there are a large population of botters in the game. Though it may have just been added as a premeasure or as an indusrty standard for F2P.

I would say that while you might not say Rift is "pay 2 win", you would be hard pressed to find a positive answer as to why the AH is half dead and the prices overly inflated....thank Rex for me.
SwobyJ Jan 22, 2014 @ 3:55pm 
AH is half-dead? Is that why it's actually overloaded on my server most of the time? haha. Those two things don't fit.

Any regular player would know that the prices on the AH have actually deflated since F2P and REX was introduced. Mucho undercutting.
Clockwork Jan 22, 2014 @ 5:41pm 
half dead refers to earlier levels. Any regular player would notice this. Deflation is impossible sorry bud.
SwobyJ Jan 22, 2014 @ 6:29pm 
Earlier level AH was dead for a couple years now. Nothing to do with F2P, but the vertical nature of progression and market.
Flavorburst Jan 22, 2014 @ 10:49pm 
Rift isn't pay to win, imo. If you want to consider buying things in order to speed up your progression towards end game content (xp pots, etc) "p2w", then I think that you are being petty and reaching pretty hard.
vellu Jan 23, 2014 @ 2:52am 
This is the only good mmo game with pvp ranks and good character customization after wow changed simple, tho this is heading to worse direction after removal of monthly fee.
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RIFT > General Discussions > Topic Details
Date Posted: Jan 22, 2014 @ 5:48am
Posts: 192