Sid Meier's Civilization III: Complete

Sid Meier's Civilization III: Complete

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kennycjr Feb 24, 2014 @ 5:02am
No ptw.exe included? And just what are all the benefits of Love the Ruler Day?
I'm wanting to particapate in a civ3 competition, the GOTM on civfanatics, only they require use of the ptw.exe, which seems to not have been included in the steam version?

Still getting my handle on how different Love the Ruler Day is in civ3 than it was in civ2. Seems it just brings lower corruption? Though the manual does seem to allude to it having different effects according to government, but doesn't seem to go into detail anywhere.
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Showing 1-10 of 10 comments
MemaBD Feb 24, 2014 @ 7:21am 
The benefits of having a "We Love the __ Day":

- The chance of the city converting to another civ is halved
- Waste in the city is reduced, and
- The effectiveness off enemy spy propaganda missions against the city is reduced
Dutchgamer1982 Feb 24, 2014 @ 4:11pm 
That lower corruption effect can matter a lot.

I have an empire with 300 city's, running under communist goverment, owning botth the secret police HQ and the forbidden palace.

If I pick 2 fully developed city's (all buildings in them) of size 13 in my realm.
Both with 20 shields from worked tiles, both increased to 60 shields, for having nucleair plant, manufactoring plant and factory.
Both have no specialist working in them, and exactly 0 growth.

now the one that has "we love the city"has only 3 waste (5%) (still 57 left for production, enough for 1 mech infantry per turn )
while the one that does not have "we love the city" has 12 waste (20%) (only 48 left for production, only enough for 1 calvery per turn)

I have not seen any city with "we love the" completely lose it's waste.. (though that last waste could be compensated with police officers if you happen to have food-surpluss)

So essentially it reduces waste by 75% (rounded up)


City spionage options are usueless.
-the only real use I'll ever use for it is "incide revolution", but thats so expensive, the AI will hardly ever use it (so more protection against that is useless.
-in earlier game it can be used to investigate city/sabotage production to snatch a wonder away, still VERY pricy so not often used either.

The only thing I notice the Ai uses spionage for (and effectively, is to steal your technology.)
and since thats not city speciffic, the best way to protect against that is just make sure the AI does not have any money (sell them your techs, rather than have then spionage-take them from you)
Dutchgamer1982 Feb 24, 2014 @ 4:13pm 
and about the .ptw file aye, I miss it too, it SHOULD be inluded, but both the ptw.exe and the ptw-worldeditor.exe are missing, as well as certain special files (such as the dinosaur unit skins) not sure why but we paid for the full deal, we should get them!
kennycjr Feb 24, 2014 @ 9:31pm 
K, thanks much for the heads up for the Love the Ruler Day, I surely didn't realize it reduced corruption anywhere near that much. I thought it needed a closer look, seems I was right about that. So I take it that the allusions to varying effects with different governments just has more to do with those same governments having different levels of corruption to begin with. So it's some sort of: the effect is the absolute same, but since the start absolute differs, then so does the end absolute, it's just that it appears to be otherwise relatively different. Sometimes I wonder about the pscyh profiles on these manual writers.

Don't we have the ptw-worldeditor.exe? There's a civ3xedit.exe in the pts subfolder. Do you have a complete list of the missing files? Does steam not look happily upon community posts centered on rallying support about missilng files from their games? I'm guessing the proper channel would be to deal directly with steam support?
Dutchgamer1982 Feb 25, 2014 @ 2:58pm 
Originally posted by kennycjr:
K, thanks much for the heads up for the Love the Ruler Day, I surely didn't realize it reduced corruption anywhere near that much. I thought it needed a closer look, seems I was right about that. So I take it that the allusions to varying effects with different governments just has more to do with those same governments having different levels of corruption to begin with. So it's some sort of: the effect is the absolute same, but since the start absolute differs, then so does the end absolute, it's just that it appears to be otherwise relatively different. Sometimes I wonder about the pscyh profiles on these manual writers.

Don't we have the ptw-worldeditor.exe? There's a civ3xedit.exe in the pts subfolder. Do you have a complete list of the missing files? Does steam not look happily upon community posts centered on rallying support about missilng files from their games? I'm guessing the proper channel would be to deal directly with steam support?

To answer your latest question shortly : sadly no I have not such a complete list of missing files, I happen to know these miss, there may be more I have not noticed as of yet.
We have 2 world editors one for the basic game, one for conquest, PTW has it's own editor (as mechanics of PTW differ slighly from conquests) but since we have no PTW.exe, there would be no way to play such scenario's even if we could make them.

Now I noticed you made a comment about corruption, a well know mistake :
There is in civ 3 a difference between corruption and waste.
Corruption is loss of gold (less money in your pockets)
Waste is loss of production (slower building speed)

Love the ruler does reduce Waste by a lot, it has no effect on corruption.

Waste & Corruption in your city occurs based on 2 factors :
one factor is : whenever your realm exceeds a given number of optimal city's
one factor is : distance of city to capitol

Optimal city's :

The base number for this optimal number of city's is given by the map size you play at (you can increase/decrease this number in the editor for a custom scenario if you'd like)

This number may next be increased or decreased by a given multiplier, as determined by your difficulty setting (againt his multiplier can be changed in the editor for a custom scenario)

This number next may be doubled, or tripled if you happen to have anywhere in your empire a Forbidden Palace and/or a Secret Police HQ (under communism)
-> one may only build a Secret Police HQ under communism, and while it will remain in place when you switch to oneother goverment type, it will lose that "tripling" effect unless you switch back to communism.

Having a "commercial" civilization also increases the optimal number of city's slighly.

The last factor would be the goverment type you've selected.

This city number effect is ranked, year of founding matters here, a city thats older, has a higher ranking. meaning exceeding the optimal number of city's causes most ranked corruption in the youngest city's and near to none in older city's.

-> it is this "optimal city number waste" that WLTKD counters.
-> police station and city hall counter corruption caused by exceeding optimal city numbers.

=> notice that unless your exceedint the optimal number of city's you would experience no ranked waste or corruption and WLTKD has no effect.
(so it would have no effect on small empires)

The other side of the equasion, city distance is rather simple :
the further away a city is from your capitol, the higher the distance-based corruption and waste it suffers.

Your goverment type does influence this kind of corruption and waste.

Forbidden palace and secret police HQ DO count as "points of origine" for corruption, reducting distance based corruption byt they do NOT reduce city distance based waste.
(but by increasing the optimal number of city's they do reduce ranked waste)

The buildings police station and court house alse help to reduce corruption caused by distance to capitol.

So in short there is NO way to reduce waste caused by distance to captol.

Last thing I say about it : communism fixes the distance to capitol for all your city's as an equal number (thats why they suffer the same effect) while other goverments increase/decrease the itensity of this waste&corruption.

Also corruption and waste influences shield and money BEFORE production.
(so 1 shield saved from waste, in a city that has a factory, a nucleair powerplant and a manufacturing plant (+200% production in total) means the neth outcome will rise by 3.
same for money, 1 gold saved from corruption in a city with a marketplace, a bank and a stock exchange, means your neth income will rise by 2.5)

The last way to fight back corruption and waste is by adding police officier specialts.
every politce officer prevents 1 (unmodified) waste AND 1 (unmodified) corruption.
with the right buildings in town that can add up to +3 shields, and +2.5 wealth, making such an police officer a far better pick in a city that suffers from waste and corruption, than the specialist.

The actual formula's are a bit more complex than above, and there IS a difference in how "we Love the Leader" works in Conquest and how it works in PTW&vanilla , if you want to read deeper into that (and into corruption and waste in general) :
http://www.civfanatics.com/civ3/strategy/corruption_c3c.php
http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=19922&s=99beb310655def849c16244a9de3440f
Dutchgamer1982 Feb 25, 2014 @ 3:04pm 
so to put that in shorter writing :

There is a difference between waste and corruption, WLTKD does prevent waste, it has no effect on corruption.
The waste you notice in a city is caused by 2 factors, number of city's in your empire and distance to capitol.
WLTKD does prevent waste caused by having to many city's in your empire quite well, but is has no effect what so ever on waste caused by distance to capitol.
The beneficial effect of WLTKD therefor differs greatly, depending on what is the main cause of the waste in the city in concideration.
kennycjr Feb 27, 2014 @ 12:14am 
Thanks much, wasn't aware there even was a difference between waste and corruption. And I'm glad you added that last bit about police officers effecting both, I was beginning to wonder whether it was completely useless to use them.

Ya know, I keep looking for like buttons on the forums here, ;o)
Dutchgamer1982 Feb 27, 2014 @ 9:30pm 
Originally posted by kennycjr:
Thanks much, wasn't aware there even was a difference between waste and corruption. And I'm glad you added that last bit about police officers effecting both, I was beginning to wonder whether it was completely useless to use them.

Ya know, I keep looking for like buttons on the forums here, ;o)

Lolz, you must be spending to much time on facebook;)
You can always buy this emoticon to "solve" that problem;)
http://steamcommunity.com/market/listings/753/207890-%3Athumbs%3A?filter=thumb
(but to pricy to my taste)

Some more game data :
MONEY :
in a city first the "raw income" (based on what you get from tiles) - corruption is taken.
this is divided regarding your sliders (so a percentage goes to science, a percentage goes to wealth) -> I presume you don't use the happyness slider, that one is only needed at the high difficulty settings,

I will say what that happyness slider does :
For evert 10% of the happyness slider, 10% income will be gone in exchange for +1 happyness in every city, it does not matter if that city earns 1 gold or 100 gold, effect would be the same, price would only go up -> thats why you will use every other happyness option available before resorting to using this happyness slider, at lower to medium difficulty levels your city's are happy enough to never ever needing that slider.

Say your raw income from tiles is 22, corruption is 2 than 20 is left to divide.
(if you'd have any wonders in this city with income from tourism, that income caused by those wonders would be added to this raw income after corruption)
Say your current science rate is 70%
that 14 will go to science, 6 to wealth.
-> if this division was less even, say we had to divide 17, not 20, than normal rounding rules will be aplied. (.5-.9 will go up, 0.1-.4 will go down)
it IS possible to gain 1 extra coin this way if the division is EXACTLY even.
(divide 17 with a sciencerate of 50, and both will end 8.5 and be rounded up)
there are 5 science percentages at wich this effect can occur :
At a science rate of 50% this -1 bonus gold per city- effect will occur iin all city's that have an uneven number for income after corruption, roughly halve your city's will have this (so it is VERY economically to have science rate set at 50%)
At a science rate of 10%, 30%, 70% or 90% this - 1 bonus gold per city - effect will occur in all city;s that have an income that can be divided by 5, after corruption. (this will occur in about 1 in 5 of all your city's so still a good science rate)

(when selecting a science rate, certainly in early game when income is low, you'd be wise to select a science rate of one of these percentages to get this bonus, it is this kind of little tricks that give one the upper hand in civ)

Keep in mind thats +1 RAW gold, because after this, division the effect of buildings and wonders will add up :

that 6 than will be increased by the effect of your marketplace, bank and stock exchange :
each of those 3 will add +50%, so with one of those buildings this city will earn 9 gold, with two 12, and with all three 15 gold.
->the marketplace and bank have an upkeep cost of 1 (so earn us 2 gold each)
->the stock exchange however, has an upkeep cost of 3 (so it earns us nothing, but costs us nothing either)

Also special notice -> the outcome of what a marketplace,bank or stock exchange does will ALWAYS be combined first, and than rounded up, since they all add 50%, if you have only the marketplace, or all 3 of them their outcome will be either x.5 or x.0, where x.5 will be rounded up to x+1 (giving extra gold in halve your city's) where if you have 2 the only possible outcome can be x.0, and no rounding up will occur, this DOES add up.

say that you have that city with 17 gold, with techrate 50.
giving you 8.5, rounded up to 9 gold.
add the +50% effect only having ONLY a marketplace in town, will make that 13.5, that will be rounded up to 14.
If you add a bank to that, their COMBINED effect is +100%, so together they will result in 18 gold
if you add a stock exchange to that their COMBINED effect is +150%, so together they will result in 22.5, rounded up to 23.
=>
so even while the marketplace and the bank both have 1 upkeep and both have +50% to wealth, the effect of the bank in halve of your city's will be 1 gold lower, than the effect of the marketplace, where the stock exchange, while costing 2 gold more, counters that by re-adding this effect, effectivly making the upkeep of the stock exchange only 1.5 more than a bank, but still 2 more than a marketplace..

=To know the RAW income of a city, count number of gold pieces on the worked tiles and deduct money lost to corruption and add eventual income from tourism, the income depicted in city's ingame is the income increased by building and wonder effect=

**keep this in check**
I give you this table for your assistance (to know where to build what)
(if you DO use the happyness slider, please add it's percentage to your techrate to read the correct value in this table)
MARKETPLACE :
Marketplace is profitable and MUST be build in a city that has at least :
*25 gold after corruption at techrate 90%
*13 gold after corruption at techrate 80%
*9 gold after corruption at techrate 70%
*7 gold after corruption at techrate 60%
*5 gold after corruption at techrate 50% or 40%
*4 gold after corruption at techrate 30% or 20%
*3 gold after corruption at techrate 10% or 0%
Marketplace is break-even and COULD be build and MUST be kept in a city that has between :
*15-24 gold after corruption at techrate 90%
*8-12 gold after corruption at techrate 80%
*5-8 gold after corruption at techrate 70%
*4-6 gold after corruption at techrate 60%
*3-5 gold after corruption at techrate 50% or 40%
*3-4 gold after corruption at techrate 30%
*2-3 gold after corruption at techrate 20%
*2 gold after corruption at techrate 10% or 0%
==============================================
*techrate 100% is not listed, as at that techrate you won't have any raw income going to wealth, and this building has nothing to multiply, and will ALWAYS lose you money and should be broken down, regardless how big the raw income is.
*at break even the marketplace generates no income but no loss either, it still has happyness effect though, if you need more happyness, build it even at break even levels, if not, better produce something more usefull, if it's already in that city it does no harm, leave it be.
*At values below break-even the marketplace will cause you to lose 1 gold per turn, if you don't need the happyness effect of the marketplace, break it down.
===============================================
BANK
Bank is profitable and MUST be build in a city that has at least :
*35 gold after corruption at techrate 90%
*18 gold after corruption at techrate 80%
*12 gold after corruption at techrate 70%
*9 gold after corruption at techrate 60%
*7 gold after corruption at techrate 50%
*6 gold after corruption at techrate 40%
*5 gold after corruption at techrate 30% or 20%
*4 gold after corruption at techrate 10% or 0%
BANK is break-even and SHOULD NOT be build, but COULD be kept in a city that has between :
*15-34 gold after corruption at techrate 90%
*8-17 gold after corruption at techrate 80%
*5-11 gold after corruption at techrate 70%
*4-8 gold after corruption at techrate 60%
*3-6 gold after corruption at techrate 50%
*3-5 gold after corruption at techrate 40%
*3-4 gold after corruption at techrate 30%
*2-4 gold after corruption at techrate 20%
*2-3 gold after corruption at techrate 10% or 0%
==============================================
*techrate 100% is not listed, as at that techrate you won't have any raw income going to wealth, and this building has nothing to multiply, and will ALWAYS lose your money and should be broken down, regardless how big the raw income is.
*At break even leven, the bank does not gain not lose you anything, don't waste building time constructing them at break even, if it is already in place, leave it be.
*At values below break-even the bank will cause you to lose 1 gold per turn, break it down!
*Effects of bank in this table are ADDED to marketplace effect.
Always build and keep a marketplace before you keep or build a bank, if you happen to conquer a city that has a bank but not a marketplace, and is not profitable to build both, you must break down the bank and build a marketplace instead.
*do take notice the minimal raw income needed to make profit with a bank is higher than for a marketplace, but the minimal raw income needed to break even is the same. => this has in effect you may keep both buildings in the same city's, but may prioritise other buildings/units than the bank in small or poor towns, or when your techrate is high, even when such towns do profit from having a marketplace.
==============================================
STOCK EXCHANGE
Stock Exchange is profitable and MUST be build in a city that has at least :
*75 gold after corruption at techrate 90%
*38 gold after corruption at techrate 80%
*25 gold after corruption at techrate 70%
*19 gold after corruption at techrate 60%
*15 gold after corruption at techrate 50%
*13 gold after corruption at techrate 40%
*11 gold after corruption at techrate 30%
*10 gold after corruption at techrate 20%
*9 gold after corruption at techrate 10%
*8 gold after corruption at techrate 0%
Stock Exchange is break-even and SHOULD NOT be build, but COULD be kept in a city that has between :
*45-74 gold after corruption at techrate 90%
*23-37 gold after corruption at techrate 80%
*15-24 gold after corruption at techrate 70%
*12-18 gold after corruption at techrate 60%
*9-14 gold after corruption at techrate 50%
*8-12 gold after corruption at techrate 40%
*7-10 gold after corruption at techrate 30%
*6-9 gold after corruption at techrate 20%
*5-8 gold after corruption at techrate 10%
*5-7 gold after corruption at techrate 0%
=================================================
*techrate 100% is not listed, as at that techrate you won't have any raw income going to wealth, and this building has nothing to multiply, and will ALWAYS lose your money and should be broken down, regardless how big the raw income is.
*At break even leven, the stock exchange does not gain not lose you anything, don't waste building time constructing them at break even, if it is already in place, leave it be.
*At values below break-even the stock exchange will cause you to lose 1-3 gold per turn, break it down!
*Effects of stock exchange in this table are ADDED to marketplace and bank effect.
Always build and keep a marketplace and bank before you build a stock exchange. If you happen to conquer a city that has a stock exchange, but not a marketplace and bank, and it is not profitable to build all three, break it down and replace it.
*do take notice both minimal raw income needed to make profit as well as minimal raw income needed to break-even with a stock exchange is a lot higher than for a marketplace or bank. => this has in effect that u nless you operate at very low tech rates, only the wealthiests and biggest city's in your empire will profit from having one.
====================================================
Dutchgamer1982 Feb 27, 2014 @ 9:30pm 
SCIENCE

Now science is the other side of this equation, after raw income is converted to science 1 on 1 it than is multiplied by your science buildings, just the same as commercial buildings do.
but reverted, where commercial buildings are more efficient with a low tech rate, science buildings are more efficient with a high tech rate.

The same tricks apply, namely that a techrate of 50% adds 1 raw tech in 50% of all city's because of double rounding up.
and that a raw techrate of 10%, 30%, 70% or 90% adds 1 raw tech in 20% of all city's because of double rounding up.
and that 1 or 3 buildings has a slight advantage over having 2, because of rounding up.

But there are a few tech only tricks :
*there is hard coded a MAXIMUM number of 50 turns any tech may take to research.
(this limit may be changed in the editor for a custom scenario but cant be changed for normal gameplay)
However if your national tech output = 0, than that maximum wil be not activated.
When you set your science rate at 0% it is therefor smart to select 1 specialist as a scientist. while his output is only 3 science 2% of the price of any tech is usually a lot more and may be a wise thing to do if you look to save money!
(ofcourse for this to be profitable the base price of the tech needs to be 150 or higher, I will list more detailed tech prices below)

*Technology's have a set price, all excess tech research you've put in this tech will go to waste. (this also means that if you trade for a tech or get gifted a tech that you already partially researched will go to waste, try to prevent that!) whenever you have a technologt that will be ready in 1 turn, money can be saved using either of these 2 methods :
A (fast, easy but less precise) : turn back the slider for as much as still will give ready in 1 turn, turning that otherwise wasted science into good hard cash.
-> think of this as you are at techrate 80% producing 32 science a turn for a tech that is priced 110. it will read as "takes 4 turns to complete"
However when 3 turns have passed you are actually at 96/110, and only need 14 more tech to complete. if you leave the slider as it is, you will be wasting 18 science!
you can tune down the sciencerate in thist last turn back all the way to 40%, now producing 16 science, you'll still will be wasting 2 science that way, but you prevented the the loss of 16 sciends that now will go as gold to your treasury. (you did not before because at start that would read needs 7 turns to complete)
B (slow, harder but far more accurate) like method A, wait till a tech reads "1 turn needed to complete" but instead of lowering the techrate to the lowest setting that still gives "1 turn to complete" lower it 10% more than that. now use add exactly enough science specialist till it reads again "1 turn needed to complete"
this way the maximum of science you'll be wasting is 2, far more accurate.
*you'll most often be using method A, as managing that many specialists manually is madness, and where do you need to take them from?
**I will go into more detail on the usefyllness of different types of specialist later.

*techs have a price that is calculated by this forumla :
Map size multiplier * base cost of tech * (number of civ's that do not have the tech / number of civ's that started this game)
=> this means that player number 2 needs less beakers to complete given tech, and number 3 less than him, and so on. It also means that if a lot of civ's are defeated in early game (and will no longer advance) techs will remain more steaply priced.
you can take advantage of this fact.
say your empire has an potential output of 50 science/turn and your oponents empire has as well, and your both looking forward to research a tech that is priced 1000 science.
say you play with 4 players, and none of you has this tech, and all produce 50 science/turn.
the first one will has to pay the full 1000*4/4=1000 science for this tech, or 20 turns.
now what you did was research this tech for 10 turns, and than turn your science rate to 0% (with only 1 token science specialit, to get that 2% of 1000=20 per turn)
when that oponent completed that tech's research, the price now drops to 1000*3/4=750 science. since you already have made 700 tech progress by now, you can now tune your science rate back up to 50, and grab that tech just 1 turn later than your oponent, but having saved yourself 10/21 turns of tech expenses where you otherwise need to have paid 20/20.
-> this mechanic must be used in tech trading also.
for starters-if you trade a tech to 1 oponent, ALL other oponents can now research that tech a lot faster. (add to this the civ you just traded that tech to may trade it to them, even if you did not want to do that for strategic reasons)
maximum price any AI will pay for any tech is based on it's CURRENT price in science AND how much progress he already made in that tech. (if he did 400/1000, he will pay less than if he did 0/1000) Likewise, you can buy a tech you already partly completed for less gold, than one you have not started on.
for AI players there is also a multiplier by difficulty setting, making technology at chieftain 3 times as expensive for them (meaning it would cost them 3000-2250-1500-750 to research given tech) and at deity only 0.6* what it costs us (meaning it would cost them 600-450-300-150) where for us that tech would always cost 1000-750-500-250 regardless of difficulty setting.
This is important when selling or buying techs, as the AI values a tech at it FACE value.
say we research any tech for 1000 research.
Say our oponents have not made any progress in that tech and we are willing to sell.
Because WE already have it, that tech now lost 1/4 players of it's value (or 1/8 or 1/2, or whatever the number of players is we started this game with)
so the AI values it at 750, even when we just spend 1000 research discovering it.
At chieftain however it would value 2250, while at deity only 450.
The Ai uses both the value to you and the value to him, to determine how it will consider trade deals. Causing you to get better deals at lower difficulty levels.
*
there are complex factors added up after this, that I have not figured out precicely.
One is a multiplier because of difficulty setting, determinening the percentual gain an AI opponent wants to get from you with any trade deal. One other is your current reputation and/or trade reputation, and one factor are certain "marked" techs, the AI seems to value speciffic techs HIGHLY, and if it has gotten a headstart on them, is not willing to let go of them for any reasonable price though I have no clear reading on what those techs are.
***
but I can list as a general rule the AI pays 50% of your tech value in gold.
so that 1000 science tech, could be sold first for 750/2 = 375 gold.
next for 500/2=250 gold
and finally for 250/2=125 gold.
You have now sold this tech to all players and recieved 750 gold in total. (less than the 1000 this tech did cost us, but still better to sell to all at once and grab that gold, than to have them get it for free by now being able to research it really fast. or worse having other AI's selling it to them.
with larger player numbers this could however become quite profitable.
if you'd play with 8 players instead of 4, you could sell this same tech for added together 1750 gold. (so it could actually be profitable to put 100% to science rate, and not build commercial buildings, and sell the techs if you have enough oponents)
**remember the rule : if you sell a tech, sell it to everybody, starting with those willing to & able to pay the most.
**if you own a tech and see any other AI gets it too, sell it to everybody, before they do!
=> when buying techs, keep in mind they will let you pay trough your nose if they are the only one having that tech (you still can make up for that by selling that same tech to all the others once you've got it) while it will be FAR cheaper buying it than researching it yourself if most players already have it.

*there is also a hard coded MINIMUM number of 4 turns for tech, if you research tech in 4 turns, the science wasted is not reserved for the last turn, but occurs every turn.
If you have that 1000 science tech, you cannot research more than 250 a turn, everything over that number will go to waste, lower your sciencerate and/or use science specialists wisely to prevent this form of loss.


Because of different upkeep cost (a university is more expensive with an upkeep of 2, compared to a bank's 1, and a research lab is cheaper with an upkeep of 2, compared to stock exchange's 3) the science table for when to build city's is not the reverse version of the commercial table, and I list it therefor separately.

Now its time for the science BUILDINGS.
For the following table I use the convertion rate of 1 gold = 1 science
LIBRARY
Library is very efficient and MUST be build in a city that has at least :
*25 gold after corruption at techrate 10%
*13 gold after corruption at techrate 20%
*9 gold after corruption at techrate 30%
*7 gold after corruption at techrate 40%
*5 gold after corruption at techrate 50% or 60%
*4 gold after corruption at techrate 70% or 80%
*3 gold after corruption at techrate 90% or 100%
Library is break-even and COULD be build and COULD be kept in a city that has between :
*15-24 gold after corruption at techrate 10%
*8-12 gold after corruption at techrate 20%
*5-8 gold after corruption at techrate 30%
*4-6 gold after corruption at techrate 40%
*3-5 gold after corruption at techrate 50% or 60%
*3-4 gold after corruption at techrate 70%
*2-3 gold after corruption at techrate 80%
*2 gold after corruption at techrate 90% or 100%
==============================================
*techrate 0% is not listed, as at that techrate you won't have any raw income going to science, and this building has nothing to multiply, and will ALWAYS lose you money and should be broken down, regardless how big the raw income is.
*at very efficient level the library generates 2 or more science for it's 1 gold upkeep, making it very efficient, build it and keep it.
*at break-even the library generates 1 science for it's 1 gold upkeep, making it a clean swap, If you have no very efficient or efficient building options left in your empire and need more science, it's a good option, if not break it down.
================================================
UNIVERSITY
University is very efficient and MUST be build in a city that has at least :
*75 gold after corruption at techrate 10%
*38 gold after corruption at techrate 20%
*25 gold after corruption at techrate 30%
*19 gold after corruption at techrate 40%
*15 gold after corruption at techrate 50%
*13 gold after corruption at techrate 60%
*11 gold after corruption at techrate 70%
*10 gold after corruption at techrate 80%
*9 gold after corruption at techrate 90%
*8 gold after corruption at techrate 100%
University is efficient and COULD be build in and SHOULD be kept a city that has between :
*55-74 gold after corruption at techrate 10%
*28-37 gold after corruption at techrate 20%
*19-24 gold after corruption at techrate 30%
*14-18 gold after corruption at techrate 40%
*11-14 gold after corruption at techrate 50%
*10-12 gold after corruption at techrate 60%
*8-10 gold after corruption at techrate 70%
*7-9 gold after corruption at techrate 80%
*7-8 gold after corruption at techrate 90%
*6-7 gold after corruption at techrate 100%
University is break-even and COULD be build and COULD be kept in a city that has between *35-54 gold after corruption at techrate 10%
*18-27 gold after corruption at techrate 20%
*12-18gold after corruption at techrate 30%
*9-13 gold after corruption at techrate 40%
*7-10 gold after corruption at techrate 50%
*6-9 gold after corruption at techrate 60%
*5-7 gold after corruption at techrate 70%
*5-6 gold after corruption at techrate 80%
*4-6 gold after corruption at techrate 90%
*4-5 gold after corruption at techrate 100%
University is inefficient and SHOULD NOT be build and SHOULD be broken down at :
*15-34 gold after corruption at techrate 10%
*8-17 gold after corruption at techrate 20%
*5-11 gold after corruption at techrate 30%
*4-8 gold after corruption at techrate 40%
*3-6 gold after corruption at techrate 50%
*3-5 gold after corruption at techrate 60%
*3-4 gold after corruption at techrate 70%
*2-4 gold after corruption at techrate 80%
*2-3 gold after corruption at techrate 90% or 100%
==============================================
*techrate 0% is not listed, as at that techrate you won't have any raw income going to science, and this building has nothing to multiply, and will ALWAYS lose you money and should be broken down, regardless how big the raw income is.
*at very efficient level the univerisity generates 4 or more science for it's 2 gold upkeep, making it very efficient, build it and keep it
*at efficient level the university generates 3 science for it's 2 gold upkeep, making it as efficient as specialists are (science specialist produces 3 science, wealth 2 wealth, making the exchange rate 2:3, same as efficient level university) build it when in need of more science, but not if there are still very efficient building spots available elsewhere, if not break it down.
*at break-even the university generates 2 science for it's 2 gold upkeep, making it a clean swap, If you have no very efficient or efficient building options left in your empire and need more science, it's a good option, if not break it down.
*at inefficient level the university generates 1 science for 2 gold, making it the most inefficient trade in of them all. only build this if in VERY dire need of more science, and all very efficient, efficient and break even build options are already used.
*below inefficient the university generates no science what so ever, break it down!
*Effects of university in this table are ADDED to library effect.
Always build and keep a library before you keep or build a university, if you happen to conquer a city that has a university but not a library, and is not efficient to build both, you must break down the university and build a library instead.
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Last edited by Dutchgamer1982; Feb 28, 2014 @ 1:52am
Dutchgamer1982 Mar 1, 2014 @ 9:16am 
-need to complete rest of this soon-
laptop battery feell down, not feeling in the mood to redo all the work right now.
Last edited by Dutchgamer1982; Mar 1, 2014 @ 9:16am
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Date Posted: Feb 24, 2014 @ 5:02am
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