Novus Inceptio
Where the game becomes completely no fun.
Spent a few days playing this game and trying to decide if it is fun or not. The answer is yes, and no. Here's my explanation and the reason I will stop playing for now.

The crafting is interesting at first. Gather some stuff, make a few things, skill up. When I discovered the Character menu - bonuses tab, it became a little bit more interesting. I could get better gathered goods, better crafted items with the bonuses. Now I have T10 weapons, tools, buildings, crafting stations, but only T6 armor. The reason is why the game isn't as fun.

At first, it was necessary to explore, collect, and gather. But now that I have a few buildings gathering T10 goods for me, I don't need to explore collect and Gather so much, except for pelts. The best tier pelts I can get with maxed items and skills appears to be T4. But only when I use my bonus skills in harvesting basics. But crafting now takes HOURS because creating T10 everything is so time consuming. I have to use all of my bonus points into crafting or the crafting time would be ridiculous. So I queued up all the crafting that I would need for the near future, comes out to about 6 hours for wave one - base materials, then another hour or two for secondary materials and another hour or two for final materials. During this time, I cannot use my bonus points or the crafting time will become days... So I have to just run the game, and go do something else, while I wait for the crafting. In otherwords, not play the game.

How to fix this? Crafting should be instant, but you should not be able to craft items too far above your skill. Make the raising of your skills more important than the waiting for crafting. There should be NO wait for crafting. Making me wait for crafting is like telling me to stop playing the game and go do something else for a while. That is not fun.

Less waiting for crap. waiting 1 hour for 100 T10 planks to finish crafting or 100 T10 leaves to finish transmuting is ridiculous! Making it so that I just lose materials during crafting is even more frustrating! WAY too grindy. Just gate it so that I can only create tear items +2 more than my skill in that item, regardless of the tier of materials. Then make the crafting and transmuting instant. Also keep the chance for failure and destruction of the items. This will make it so I have to go play the game, explore and gather, instead of standing in my house with all my crafting stations waiting for the queues to finish.
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Showing 1-15 of 20 comments
1bigchef Nov 13, 2017 @ 7:24pm 
How do you balance waitng for things to craft or it will become no fun as oposed to"crafting should be instant" which is absolutely no fun at all.

If there is little or no investment then why play?
Last edited by 1bigchef; Nov 13, 2017 @ 7:35pm
GrinningStudios Nov 13, 2017 @ 7:57pm 
Originally posted by 1bigchef:
How do you balance waitng for things to craft or it will become no fun as oposed to"crafting should be instant" which is absolutely no fun at all.

If there is little or no investment then why play?

You can still create an investment. Creating items can still have a chance of destroying the materials if you fail. You can't create higher tier items unless you level up your skill in that discipline. Take a tip from decade long veterans of progression (WoW) - skill ups are more weighted than wait times. Wait times pulls people out of the game. Instead of telling people to wait for their stuff, make them go out and get more stuff - i.e. play the game.
fbspamme Nov 13, 2017 @ 8:36pm 
Originally posted by GrinningStudios:
Originally posted by 1bigchef:
How do you balance waitng for things to craft or it will become no fun as oposed to"crafting should be instant" which is absolutely no fun at all.

If there is little or no investment then why play?

You can still create an investment. Creating items can still have a chance of destroying the materials if you fail. You can't create higher tier items unless you level up your skill in that discipline. Take a tip from decade long veterans of progression (WoW) - skill ups are more weighted than wait times. Wait times pulls people out of the game. Instead of telling people to wait for their stuff, make them go out and get more stuff - i.e. play the game.


Originally posted by GrinningStudios:
Originally posted by 1bigchef:
How do you balance waitng for things to craft or it will become no fun as oposed to"crafting should be instant" which is absolutely no fun at all.

If there is little or no investment then why play?

You can still create an investment. Creating items can still have a chance of destroying the materials if you fail. You can't create higher tier items unless you level up your skill in that discipline. Take a tip from decade long veterans of progression (WoW) - skill ups are more weighted than wait times. Wait times pulls people out of the game. Instead of telling people to wait for their stuff, make them go out and get more stuff - i.e. play the game.

Actually, the transmute times have come down a ton. I seem to remember spending hours waiting for leave to transmute. Now I transmuted over 8000 in plant material in minutes. I believe it only take about a minute for me to transmute 200 leaves to the next level. It might take a bit longer if you have not maxed out the transmute time skill.

That being said I am not a big fan of grinding out tens of thousands of items to improve a skill either. If you think waiting for things to transmute is a pain, just wait till you try to increase your carpentary skills or firemaking skills or bladesmithing skill. I guess it should take about 7000 to 8000 more successful catches for my fishing skill to get to 350 (T9). The crafting skills can require about 100 to 300 items successfully crafted to get a 0.5 improvement. Is that your idea of fun?

That being said, there are tons of things that people can grind or collect. I am still in the process of trying to collect a few thousand scoropion pelts. There are the occasional special event coins to collect, and there are the items from the obelisks. I am trying to build a 12x12 castle (currently at 3 x 2 panels / per floor) and a 3x3 tower (currently at 16 floors up). I am tryin to see how high the tower can go.

In between working on my giant structures, I am growing crops for the different coloured dyes, fishing to get my fishing skill to 350, hunting in the desert anomaly for pelts, occassionally heading to the tropics for pelts (elephants, rhino and crocodile), building lights (casue the lights in the game give off very little light), trying to increase my skills in crafting, and from time to time trying to get to places on the map that I should not be able to go.

DId I mention that I am planing on putting a T10 land claim deed on all the buildable areas, just because I can.

PS. One can no longer go beneath the starting temple. I tried my hidden entry point by climing the mountain covering the temple from behind and heading to the side of the mountain and the edge of the map. I get stuck and cannot sink below the temple anymore. One of these days, I hope to find a way on to the plate or balancing scales on one of the giant statue in the game. I have not found a way to jump through the statue and land on it yet.

I have seen the top of the water falls and the areas behind the water fall, but I think those are legitimate places that anybody should be able to visit. It is interesting to note that the source of the water falls are not treated as water so it is not a swim. You can just walk around underwater and watch what looks like animated water falling over the edge.
Last edited by fbspamme; Nov 13, 2017 @ 11:45pm
GrinningStudios Nov 13, 2017 @ 8:56pm 
Originally posted by fbspamme:

Actually, the transmute times have come down a ton. I seem to remember spending hours waiting for leave to transmute. Now I transmuted over 8000 in plant material in minutes. I believe it only take about a minute for me to transmute 200 leaves to the next level. It might take a bit longer if you have not maxed out the transmute time skill.

All I am saying is that playing the game to get stuff is FAR more effective at keeping me playing the game and making the game interesting than waiting for queues to finish.

Originally posted by fbspamme:

That being said I am not a big fan of grinding out tens of thousands of items to improve a skill either. If you think waiting for things to transmute is a pain, just wait till you try to increase your carpentary skills or firemaking skills or bladesmithing skill. I guess it should take about 7000 to 8000 more successful catches for my fishing skill to get to 350 (T9). The crafting skills can require about 100 to 300 items successfully crafted to get a 0.5 improvement. Is that your idea of fun?

Both are a grind. One is grinding time, while playing the game and one is grinding time while NOT playing the game. It is important to always create mechanics that make people play your game and never create mechanics that make people leave your game or do something else while waiting for your game.

Originally posted by fbspamme:

That being said, there are tons of things that people can grind or collect. I am still in the process of trying to collect a few thousand scoropion pelts. There are the occasional special event coins to collect, and there are the items from the obelisks. I am trying to build a 12x12 castle (currently at 3 x 2 panels / per floor) and a 3x3 tower (currently at 16 floors up). I am tryin to see how hight the tower can go.

Grinding isn't something I want, unless it is there to make me go experience something in the game that I would not have experienced otherwise.


Originally posted by fbspamme:
In between working on my giant structures, I am growing crops for the different coloured dyes, fishing to get my fishing skill to 350, hunting in the desert anomaly for pelts, occassionally heading to the tropics for pelts (elephants, rhino and crocodile), building lights (casue the lights in the game give off very little light), trying to increase my skills in crafting, and from time to time trying to get to places on the map that I should not be able to go.

DId I mention that I am planing on putting a T10 land claim deed on all the buildable areas, just because I can.

PS. One can no longer go beneath the starting temple. I tried my hidden entry point by climing the mountain covering the temple from behind and heading to the side of the mountain and the edge of the map. I get stuck and cannot sink below the temple anymore. One of these days, I hope to find a way on to the plate or balancing scales on one of the giant statue in the game. I have not found a way to jump through the statue and land on it yet.

I have seen the top of the water falls and the areas behind the water fall, but I think those are legitimate places that anybody should be able to visit. It is interesting to note that the source of the water falls are not treated as water so it is not a swim. You can just walk around underwater and watch what looks like animated water falling over the edge.

That's cool. Good luck with your building mission. Kind of the only way to keep the game fun after you have maxed out all your gear and buildings.
fbspamme Nov 14, 2017 @ 12:13am 

Originally posted by GrinningStudios:
Both are a grind. One is grinding time, while playing the game and one is grinding time while NOT playing the game. It is important to always create mechanics that make people play your game and never create mechanics that make people leave your game or do something else while waiting for your game.

If I had to put up with grinding, I much prefer to be doing something else while the system grinds for me. I am not a big fan of repeitive grinding. Building a giant tower to experiment with different parts or lighting or storage; or a complex factory with many different parts that interact with each other is my idea of fun.

As I pointed out, there are tons of interesting things that can be done in the game that do not involve or require grinding ore nodes for a few thousand pieces of ore, or knocking down a few hundred trees for logs, or scraping a few thousand trees for bark and leaves.

I do not think it is fun to collect resources like somebody playing farmville. Even the mass farming games were coming up with machines to make it less of a time wasting click fest - to make it less carpal tunnel inducing. I hope the developers move in the direction of making complex interactions and designs as opposed to just mind numbing carpal tunnel inducing repetitive farming of resources several tens of thousands of times a month. I know because I have played 3 diferent farming games and played them for several hundred hours each.
Last edited by fbspamme; Nov 14, 2017 @ 1:18am
McMagic Productions  [developer] Nov 14, 2017 @ 1:17am 
Thank you very much for your knowledge!

But here is the encounter of two opposites - and we have to fight with it - somehow to tune the game for these two groups.

Something is on its way - but it will not be now - certainly not by the end of the year.
This requires a deeper analysis of all your knowledge from players, etc.

But from that early access is - collecting insights from the players and making the game so fun and playable for our players.

We know now that everything is too simple to one side and hard to the other side.
It will be hard and long work - which will take some time.
fbspamme Nov 14, 2017 @ 1:52am 
Originally posted by McMagic Productions:
Thank you very much for your knowledge!

But here is the encounter of two opposites - and we have to fight with it - somehow to tune the game for these two groups.

Something is on its way - but it will not be now - certainly not by the end of the year.
This requires a deeper analysis of all your knowledge from players, etc.

But from that early access is - collecting insights from the players and making the game so fun and playable for our players.

We know now that everything is too simple to one side and hard to the other side.
It will be hard and long work - which will take some time.

I agree that the right balance has to be found.

However, there is a reason why farming games are moving away from the mind numbing click fest of the past. If one really like mind numbing clicking, there is always the idle mouse clicking games. I have played a few of those too. They have some appeal, but even those games have short cuts like "Buy 10" or "Buy 100".

Ever wonder how they are able to engage their players while reducing the mind numbing grind? They do it with more interesting strategy and interactive game play. If a basic game like a idle mouse clicking game can be fun, then I am sure a game as complex as this can be just as engaging without having to rely on grinding out ore, leaves, crops, and so on ...
TCRGameTester Nov 14, 2017 @ 5:56am 
I think we should definitely figure out a way to increase the efficiency of the crafting, at this point in the game, we need to see this.. but in the future, I would think that having access to more quests, assigned by the computer, or perhaps more puzzles to solve. There is little to explore, and the multi player will surely increase the enjoyment, but this crafting thing has to be sped up a bit more. The results are seriously too difficult to enjoy after two days of grinding out 5000 leaves to make 150 tier 5 leaves, this is just a bit ridiculous.. and I know it will be improved, but that is about what this game seems to be so far. I have found no other parts of the game that is exciting beyond making a weapon a tier or two above your abilities. I think we need to have a purpose added to this game. I loved the purpose at first, and that needs to be upgraded. I would like to see shops added that have completed tier items. Something like a tier 5 iron ore already for sale. Or a public trade market if grinding out is the thing, but at this point, I do not see any other point to this game beyond making tier 5 to tier 10 stuff. What are your thoughts?
Last edited by TCRGameTester; Nov 14, 2017 @ 5:58am
GrinningStudios Nov 14, 2017 @ 8:24am 
Originally posted by TCRGameTester:
I think we should definitely figure out a way to increase the efficiency of the crafting, at this point in the game, we need to see this.. but in the future, I would think that having access to more quests, assigned by the computer, or perhaps more puzzles to solve. There is little to explore, and the multi player will surely increase the enjoyment, but this crafting thing has to be sped up a bit more. The results are seriously too difficult to enjoy after two days of grinding out 5000 leaves to make 150 tier 5 leaves, this is just a bit ridiculous.. and I know it will be improved, but that is about what this game seems to be so far. I have found no other parts of the game that is exciting beyond making a weapon a tier or two above your abilities. I think we need to have a purpose added to this game. I loved the purpose at first, and that needs to be upgraded. I would like to see shops added that have completed tier items. Something like a tier 5 iron ore already for sale. Or a public trade market if grinding out is the thing, but at this point, I do not see any other point to this game beyond making tier 5 to tier 10 stuff. What are your thoughts?

I think that each tier should be locked behind some acheivement. Want to make T1 Iron, then gather iron and smelt T0 to learn T1, Now T2 has more gathering, but also you have to smelt other metals, not just Iron. T3 requires that you make enough items with T2 ingots to learn. T4 Requires finding making steel. T5 Requires Making other alloys. T6 Requires making and using alloy weapons and tools. T7 requires transmuting the ores to T8 . . . This can go on, and they don't even have to be in this order. But some time should be put into the materials and their perspective tiers. Don't just make me wait to get high tier, make me go play the game to get high tier.
TCRGameTester Nov 14, 2017 @ 8:41am 
Originally posted by GrinningStudios:
Originally posted by TCRGameTester:
I think we should definitely figure out a way to increase the efficiency of the crafting, at this point in the game, we need to see this.. but in the future, I would think that having access to more quests, assigned by the computer, or perhaps more puzzles to solve. There is little to explore, and the multi player will surely increase the enjoyment, but this crafting thing has to be sped up a bit more. The results are seriously too difficult to enjoy after two days of grinding out 5000 leaves to make 150 tier 5 leaves, this is just a bit ridiculous.. and I know it will be improved, but that is about what this game seems to be so far. I have found no other parts of the game that is exciting beyond making a weapon a tier or two above your abilities. I think we need to have a purpose added to this game. I loved the purpose at first, and that needs to be upgraded. I would like to see shops added that have completed tier items. Something like a tier 5 iron ore already for sale. Or a public trade market if grinding out is the thing, but at this point, I do not see any other point to this game beyond making tier 5 to tier 10 stuff. What are your thoughts?

I think that each tier should be locked behind some acheivement. Want to make T1 Iron, then gather iron and smelt T0 to learn T1, Now T2 has more gathering, but also you have to smelt other metals, not just Iron. T3 requires that you make enough items with T2 ingots to learn. T4 Requires finding making steel. T5 Requires Making other alloys. T6 Requires making and using alloy weapons and tools. T7 requires transmuting the ores to T8 . . . This can go on, and they don't even have to be in this order. But some time should be put into the materials and their perspective tiers. Don't just make me wait to get high tier, make me go play the game to get high tier.


Absolutely! That makes the game progression more fun. I would love to be able to obtain this ability so we have somethign to strive for. But I think they have so many issues to resolve first. That trello page is quite in depth. I went an entire generation just crafting leaves to lvl 5
TCRGameTester Nov 14, 2017 @ 8:44am 
in fact, its running just transmuting - i have no point in playing the game during this process as its going to take all day to get this done. I have it sped up as well on my points for bonus. Just a sad thing that it takes so long to do something - its like a tablet game in this manner. I guess offer a solution to purchase diamonds with real money and you can have the item your trying to make.. ;) please do not do that. haha
eq_elyana Nov 14, 2017 @ 5:13pm 
I have to add my 2 cents. Like the OP I am against turning this game into "Evergrind". Quests, and crafting with purpose should be motivations to get materials, not just pursuit of the next tier. The natural progression in a game adds longetivity and interest. Games like the simple 2-D game Stardew Valley are excellent at that. Our personal droid could become a gateway to further knowledge by assigning us tasks which allow us to earn knowledge points, instead of just awarding them based on age. In addition we could "reverse engineer" to gain blueprints. Finally, being able to tame and domesticate animals would add additional things to do. Caring for them would become another task. Breeding them could be a way to improve quality. Just some thoughts!
TCRGameTester Nov 15, 2017 @ 11:27am 
Originally posted by eq_elyana:
I have to add my 2 cents. Like the OP I am against turning this game into "Evergrind". Quests, and crafting with purpose should be motivations to get materials, not just pursuit of the next tier. The natural progression in a game adds longetivity and interest. Games like the simple 2-D game Stardew Valley are excellent at that. Our personal droid could become a gateway to further knowledge by assigning us tasks which allow us to earn knowledge points, instead of just awarding them based on age. In addition we could "reverse engineer" to gain blueprints. Finally, being able to tame and domesticate animals would add additional things to do. Caring for them would become another task. Breeding them could be a way to improve quality. Just some thoughts!

I think you are on to something with the droid assigning tasks - it could pick up the daily log at a booth and give you the quests for the day or week.
fbspamme Nov 16, 2017 @ 2:26am 
Originally posted by TCRGameTester:
in fact, its running just transmuting - i have no point in playing the game during this process as its going to take all day to get this done. I have it sped up as well on my points for bonus. Just a sad thing that it takes so long to do something - its like a tablet game in this manner. I guess offer a solution to purchase diamonds with real money and you can have the item your trying to make.. ;) please do not do that. haha

I have no idea why you would stop playing just because something is transmuting or building. It is not like you have to stand in a particular spot while that is happening. I still remember waiting for 1000 to 2000 ore of different kinds to refine into ingots in front of the forge. In the past, there was nothing you could do while your avatar forged ingots in front of the forge. You were stuck there if you wanted the process to complete.

How about exploring the map? Trying to build something? Figuring out what you want to craft next? Or which skill you want to improve and improving it? Personally, I recommend trying to build a nice big building. It can get a bit painful, but after that you can try to fill it with furniture and lights.

I think the game has a lot of potential but there is still a lot of work that needs to be done. There are not a lot of parts that can be built. I'd like better windows with glass panes or wooden shutters that can open and close. Trap doors that swing up or down, so one can put an enterance or exit in a floor and so on. I would like to see more parts interacting with each other.
Last edited by fbspamme; Nov 16, 2017 @ 2:27am
TCRGameTester Nov 16, 2017 @ 9:50am 

I have no idea why you would stop playing just because something is transmuting or building. It is not like you have to stand in a particular spot while that is happening. I still remember waiting for 1000 to 2000 ore of different kinds to refine into ingots in front of the forge. In the past, there was nothing you could do while your avatar forged ingots in front of the forge. You were stuck there if you wanted the process to complete.

There is nothing to do except wait. Already have everything built. So, I figured what else can you do? I explored the map, nothing there really. No stronger creatures - so I just play another game while I wait for transmuting to be finished.
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