Fallout 4

Fallout 4

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mithraP Jan 20, 2016 @ 7:23am
+SPOILERS+ The lore is broken beyond repair, now.
Did Mister Emil Pagliarulo (Fallout 4's lead writer) actually play any previous Fallout game?
I've come to think that the answer is no. Or maybe he did, and didn't take them into account.

Listen, Fallout 4 is pretty much a good game. Ambitious, great atmosphere, pleasant gameplay, nice graphics, big map, etc, etc. I've had good times playing it, great times, even. The exploration is nice, some mods truly add something, the crafting system is well done etc. There are a few problems, sure, like for any other game... But there is a major flaw that cannot be skipped and that makes me wonder about the seriousness of the studio's writing team.

We already know the weaknesses of the main storyline and how it falls flat in its core elements (no choice at all, no consequences and forced, awkward emotion moments that didn't work well). Writers are supposed to be familiar with storytelling structures that can avoid these kinds of immersion breaking moments. I'd suggest to read "hero's journey" by Vogler, the various studies from Joseph Campbell or "Story" by Robert Mckee. But beyond the storytelling, we should be worried about the lore breaking elements.

Now, what is lore ? (baby don't hurt me) it's a series of facts, an established timeline, a recurring theme and a story structure introduced by the first game. Adding things to them is fine, it's actually what we wish a new episode has. But removing, ignoring or changing these core elements is what makes a lore breaking moment.

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1 : The Institute is made of the greatest minds of the wasteland. The future of mankind, where the greatest scientific discoveries are made.
Contradiction with : the whole franchise

Except for synths, the Institute hasn't invented or improved anything. Most of their "discoveries" have been around for two entire centuries, and the Institute didn't even improve them in any way.

-About the energy. The Institute's greatest accomplishment is a 1942 technology : a nuclear reactor. They don't believe in fusion energy, you know... the energy that powers the vaults.
-They say that their motto is « humanity redifined ». West Tek made it two centuries before with embedding DNA with FEV, allowing mutation and evolution to happen way, way faster. Even the master's scientists debunked this idea, because humans WERE evolving ultra fast to match the fauna and flora that West Tek infected.
-A synthetic army ? Assaultrons and Securitrons are way deadlier than any of the Institute's synths and they were made by an Institute's student 200 years ago. A faction with zero military advancement in two centuries isn't exactly threatening or believable.
-Cyborgs ? A century old technology, mastered by a secluded religious order with far less resources, in California. It was working perfectly well. Improved lifespan, made people stronger, smarter etc. Shaun cancelled this program for no reason.
-Synths ? Yes, it's quite a feat, except that the Institute fails to recognize their obvious sentience, while at the big MT, their great minds acknowledged sentience in synthetic organisms a long, long time ago.
-Teleportation ? Pretty cool, except that big MT discovered this technology long before the institute and it worked way, way better.
-Weapons ? Which are worse than laser weapons invented two centuries before them.
-Agriculture ? Food replicators were invented two centuries before the events of the game, as per the GECK. And they were powered by portable cold fusion reactors, a technology our real life scientists only dream of while the Institute has trouble paying its energy bills.
-Bioscience ? Zero advancement, while the Shis in San Francisco actually made a plant that eats radiation and scrubs the land to make it livable. They can make synthetic oil out of seaweed and are on the verge of building their own nuclear reactors, plus their own power armors, their own gauss rifles etc. And they had way, way less resources than the Institute.
-Medecine ? Zero progress. They get outsmarted by a mark I Mrs.Nanny whose design was already half a century old by the time the bombs fell. They have a litteral cure for cancer in their vats and don't even think about refining it when their own leader gets sick.
-Oh, the institute can cure Super Mutants. Great. West Tek already knew how to make the same cure back in 2077. In Fallout 1, Zax even says that anyone who keeps a sample of their original DNA can be turned back into a human. In other words, the institute took two centuries to discover something that West Tek figured out in one single year.
-The Institute even gets outsmarted by one of their own fellow student, Mr.House, who managed to achieve immortality by himself, with makeshift technology. A technology he intends to sell to the NCR, with whom he makes business.
-Artificial Intelligence ? Invented and sold to the military two centuries ago, as proven by Skynet in the Sierra Army Depot.


2 : Jet is presented as a pre-war drug, shipped to vault 95 before it was sealed.
Contradiction with : Fallout 2.
In F2, you get to meet Myron, who created the Jet almost two centuries after the apocalypse. He clearly states how he made it (with Brahmin's excrements), how many slaves died during the tests, who ordered the drugs (The Mordinos) and why (to seize control of Redding).
"He could have lied, or he could have been inspired by an old drug", would you say. True indeed. However, every chemist is inspired by old drugs at some point. Doesn't mean that the creations share this nature. Also, Myron was a chemist genius, able to build chems at will, and never lied to the player about it. Confronted with his skills or the recipes of chems, you never see him talking nonsense, he actually proves that he has a great knowledge on the production process. "Derivatives of lysergics acid diethylamide and psilocybin" is an actual line from Myron, if your science skill is high enough to talk about chemistry with him.
The boy was also begging you to spare him when you first met him. So he was a coward. So can you imagine him lying to Big Jesus Mordino's face ? Remember how the man has a surprisingly good empathy and actually murders the player, a rough tribal wastelander, at the second he notices chit chat or insolence. Here, this is Myron we talk about. A skinny kid. Finally, the said kid killed between 100 and 200 slaves to get the jet "working". Now, let's do the math.

When you meet Metzger, the ruler of the slaver's guild, he sells Vic for 1000 dollars. An old, crippled, useless repairman. Not a young male tribal warrior in his prime, no, no.
Metzger buys Sulik for 1200 dollars, and pays each slaver 800 dollars for a run. Which means that a man like Sulik must be sold between 4000 and 5000 dollars for Metzger to make a profit. Now, look : the Mordinos, intelligent, drug knowing warlords who wouldn't spend a cap for nothing, bought 100 to 200 slaves so that Myron can kill them, and it's no big deal. Do you think that they would have spent such a fortune if Jet was actually a pre-war drug that any chemist could remake ? Remember how advanced was Myron's lab ?
No matter how you put it, Jet is not a pre war drug. Maybe it's inspired by pre war chems, but it's not one of them. And it couldn't possibly be an easy to make drug, as per the Mordinos' investments. It's not a big deal, but when you manage a huge franchise which was defined by its details, you can't just ignore the little things which make the whole hold together.

3 : Again, Super Mutants are all idiots (except for Virgil).
Contradiction with : Fallout 1, 2, tactics.
First of all, why are super mutants even agressive ? F1, F2, Ftactics' super mutants were agressive because they were brainwashed by the children of the cathedral to see humanity as the enemy. And yet, hundreds of them were already starting to see their errors and integrated themselves into society. FEV doesn't turn people into racists for no reason. Yeah, except Vault 87's for some reason, but F4's super mutants aren't from there.
Is there even a reason for them being so aggressive and not simply try to form a society, like all the super mutants who weren't brainwashed ?

Now, about their intelligence. FEV Doesn't turn humans into imbeciles. Most Super Mutants are actually very smart ; we know for a fact that Broken Hills is populated by hundreds of them (as per the Vault City's guide for travellers, which has the place's demographics), and they are smart enough to sign peace treaties, sign business deals, understand the interest of hiring private companies for their supplies, write down laws and obey them, run a successful mine etc. The lieutenant (just a lieutenant, not a high ranked officer) is actually one of the most eloquent NPC of the entire franchise.
Even the super mutants warriors of the midwest are actually smart. Brutal, yes, but smart enough to actually enroll in various BoS tactical squads.

The only dumb ones we ever see are door watchers. They are not core of the Unity's army, they are left behind to watch doors in secluded cities.

Some would say "hey ! Wasn't Fallout 1's main quest revolving around the fact that the Master couldn't raise smart mutants ?"
Nope. It's a myth. Check again, the master NEVER even mentions the mutant's intelligence, since he already has hundreds and hundreds of smart mutants in his army. He wants the vault dwellers for a totally different reason. He knows what happens with pure DNA, since he already made an experiment with a vault 13 citizen before the events of Fallout 1.

It makes a creature like himself. Which is all he wants : unity.
There's zero mention of mutant's intelligence, since their intelligence has never been a problem.

What about the Institute's ? They are all dumbs because FEV.
What about Vault 87's ? They are all dumbs because FEV.

I say this again : the FEV doesn't affect intelligence. At all.

4 : The base money is caps.
Contradiction with : Fallout 2.
Caps were only used during the first years after the war, as "farmer's money", as a currency indexed on the water value : one cap = one bottle of water.
Yeah, yeah, I know, caps were on the west coast, Fallout 4 takes place in the east coast, things can be different etc. I know, bear with me :

Diamond City is a trading hub, which means that there are caravans stopping by. Caravans from places where there are other currencies (their diversity is quite well established in all the previous titles) These caravaneers' employers want their share on the transactions, for obvious reasons. And by share, I don't mean barter of goods, I mean cash. Money. So, for Diamond City to actually exist as a city, there needs to be an exchange currency, aka, a bank. Baseball cards, game tickets, printed money... PRINTED money ? Now, that would give Piper way more importance, given the fact that she holds the printing machine. Her conflict with the mayor would have another dimension, as we'd witness not only a clash of convictions, but of pure, raw, political power. The game actually tries to take that direction, but falls flat on it. And here's a perfect example of a current, ingame dramatic situation that would have been greatly enhanced by a more serious approach on the established lore. Realism wouldn't change the current setting and drama, it would actually enhance it.

« No, no, you can't touch caps, they are a part to Fallout's identity » some might say. Wrong. Fallout 1 may had caps, but Fallout 2 had NCR Dollars backed on Redding's gold, issued by the Republic Reserve located in Angel's Boneyard. Mining communities use mine scrips. The Mojave accepts another currency, the Sunset Sasparilla caps. The whole midwest tribes uses ring pulls and Brotherhood printed scrips. The Legion's turf, which is insanely huge, uses Denarius and Aureus.

How exactly does it make sense for the east coast to use a Californian money abandonned since almost a century, and was backed by water in an arid environment, especially considering that there are six other kind of currencies between the HUB and the Commonwealth ? Considering that there is water EVERYWHERE in the commonwealth, and yet, caps have the exact same value as thousands of miles away, where it was used in an arid, desertic setting a century ago. Now, how long after the black plague did the European banks started to make loans and make money, again ?

Fallout's lore established a realistic economy, as part of its main thematic : "how do new societies deal with the errors of the past ?" removing any part of that, even for fun, nostalgia or fanservice, is removing a part of the central thematic. In other words, it's breaking the lore.
There are numerous ways to keep the lore up and kicking, yet still inventing new, original concepts. Among them, let's imagine... I don't know, let's imagine that the BoS wishes to extend his power through political and economical management. They'd basically turn into medieval templars (the bank templars, not the assassin's creed gymnasts), which would be as lore friendly as original. After all, they control the water purifier, and for many years, the currency was indexed on the water prices. What if they tried to extend that currency to the commonwealth, and encounter a suspiciously lawless state, with a shadow government opposing this new foreign currency ? Wouldn't that be the first hint of the institute's motives ? Wouldn't this economical takeover be a way to enhance the actual, current arrival of the Prydwen ? When you know that the BoS not only comes for the institute, but also to implement their power in this new land, that's double the intimidation potential of the scene.

Listen, I'm a random idiot, not a writer. And here are already two basic ideas to justify an economical situation that would fit the lore and the current storyline. Any competent writer could find dozens of other, better scenarios. And as proven, realism and lore fidelity wouldn't require to rewrite the game from scratch. It can enhance the current storyline and setting, which is actually good and wouldn't need a lot of duct tape to actually hold still.

05 : The Californian Brotherhood of steel approved Maxson's rise to power.
Contradiction with : fallout bible, Fallout 2, Van Buren, Fallout New Vegas.
When Fallout 4 takes place, the Californian Brotherhood doesn't "exist" anymore. It has been annhilated, smashed, destroyed, and everything in between... NCR kicked them when they were down, just like John Wayne would have done. The BoS is currently making a last stand to defend Maxson's State underground, and are getting ready to face the invasion of the NCR force, that CANNOT lose at this point. Even the Mojave Chapter cannot get in touch with HQ, so how would the elders approve Maxson's rise to power ?

06 : The BOS blows up the Institute.
Contradiction with : all of Fallout's lore.
Now, let's imagine a medieval knight. Brotherhood soldiers are basically that, in sci fi.
Would a knight kill a heretic holding the Graal ? Sure.
So, the BOS would destroy the members of the institute and their synths.
But then, would the knight melt the Graal and pretend he did some good work ? Hell no!
So why would the BOS nuke their Graal, their cathedral, their biggest resource of technology (something that they actually worship and swear to PROTECT) ?
Just look at all the technology inside the Institute. Microscopes. Bulletproof glass. Speakers and security cameras. LED lights. Automated doors which suggests the presence of pneumatic or hydraulic engines. A functional nuclear reactor. Computers. Digging machines somewhere. Humidifiers. Carbon filters in the ventilation systems. Functional coffee machines. Thousands of energy cells used by the synths which would be VERY usefl for the brotherhood soldiers in constant needs of supplies. Ovens, microwaves, circuit boards, wielding machines, washing machines, industrial arms, UV lamps to grow food underground. Water purifiers. Whatever technology used to make synthetic food.

« The brotherhood doesn't care about post war technologies », you might say. Except that they totally are pre war technology. 75% of the institute's gizmoes exist in our real world, including the nuclear reactor. Also, nobody ever said that the Brotherhood only focuses on pre war technology. Ever. It's a common myth backed by litteraly nobody in the games. Sure, they MOSTLY hoard pre war tech in order to preserve it, but they never limited themselves to that. Every single Fallout title shows the brotherhood having interest in post war tech.

In Fallout 1, the brotherhood clearly uses weapons manufactured by the gun runners, such as the ripper. Doctor Lorri enhances soldiers with bionic implants, turning them into cyborgs, which are clearly post war technology.
In Fallout 2, the brotherhood asks you to find the blueprints of vertibirds so that they can make their own. Vertibirds are post war technology. The chapter also uses ACE, which is an artificial intelligence who became self aware after the war.
In Fallout tactics, Paladin Dos is a cyborg. Post war technology. Several endings of Fallout tactics feature the brotherhood relying on an self aware AI to establish themselves in the midwest. These endings are noncanonical, sure, but still.
In Fallout 3, the Citadel's terminals mention the lead scribe building a post war technology called an « Accelerated Vector Fusion module » to take control of Liberty Prime's artificial intelligence.
In Fallout 4, the Prydwen itself is a post war technology and it serves as the brotherhood HQ. And Proctor Ingram uses bionic implants to cope with the loss of her legs.
Remind me again : what use do the BOS scribes have ? Studying the ashes left behind by the paladins ? Fallout 4's writer seems to think that the answer is yes.

07 : There's the Enclave armor in the wild, untouched for centuries and rusty :
Contradiction with : Fallout 2
The Enclave Armor was developped by the Enclave on the Poseidon Oil Rig AFTER the war and would have NEVER found its way in this basement. Ever. Also... Is that rust on it ? But... But the X-01 is made of advanced polywers and not of METAL, which makes it lighter than its counterparts.

08 : A ghoul stays locked in a fridge for two centuries, without food or water.
Contradiction with : every fallout.
If radiation is all it takes to keep a Ghoul kicking, then why did Necropolis Ghouls died of thirst if you took their water chip, in Fallout 1 ? This is a major, important plot element of the story, since it defines the hero's journey as morally grey, as communities are ruined to save vault 13.
Why do Harland in New Vegas clearly states that he had to eat radroaches and drink water from the condensation on the pipes not to die of hunger and thirst ?
Why do Slog Ghouls even grow food ? For money ? Come on. They are so broke they can't even pay attention.

09 : Ghouls can run/charge.
Contradiction with : Fallout 1 and 2.
In Fallout's lore, there are three « races » of Ghouls : Crazies, Scavengers and Mindless Ones. The only ones who went feral were the Mindless Ones or "Zombies" and they were frail, they were few, slow, they were weak and the only place I remember ever seeing them was around Necropolis. I don't even remember seeing any in Fallout 2. Why's that? Cause they've long since died off. Why? Darwinism, that's why. Survival of the fittest. And they disappeared while being protected by the crazies and scavengers, because they knew they needed protection and couldn't survive on their own longer than a single generation.

A single charge, and they'd break their legs. For how long would they be crippled ? All their life. So, logically, they don't run. It's actually a pretty important plot element in Fallout 2, as demonstrated by Lenny.

He, a medic ghoul (not a redneck zombie but an educated doctor) clearly states that Ghouls can't run. This is actually why he feels so sorry for himself and joins Fallout 2's hero, as an atonement act : he couldn't run after the hero's ancestor and help him with his quest. FO1 and 2 made a big deal of showing that Ghouls are easily scared by danger and stay away from trouble because of their fragility... they have advanced atrophy and a skeletal structure that is quite bad at even holding things in place - as we learn from the dialogue in FO2 talking with Harold, and in Fallout Tactics dialogs with the Ghouls who seek the protection of the Midwest Brotherhood of Steel. The bravest Ghouls actually enlist in the brotherhood ranks, but their agility is limited to six points and they can't run. They can only do an awkward, twisted trot.

In Fallout 4, Ferals are rotting corpses who have survived 200 years in a hostile/racist environment, without any protection, some of them without even eating anything, and they are able to run faster than humans, LITTERALY avoid bullets, charge and inflict massive damages. You can see the problem here.

10 : There are super mutants at Boston.
Contradiction with : all fallouts.
Fallout 1 ends with the destruction of the FEV base, which was used to create mutants... And let me tell this again : pure, raw FEV doesn't produce super mutants, but monsters like Harold or the master. To engineer Super Mutants, the greatest mind of the wasteland had to grow psychic powers, unite itself with a computer and spend years of failures before even making his first super mutant. The destruction of his labs mean only one thing : that this knowledge is lost, possibly forever. There isn't a single plausible, lore-friendly scenario that explains how dumby dumb super mutants could create new soldiers on their own.
Fallout 2, which happens many decades after, actually confirms that the super mutants are almost all dead.
Fallout Tactics sees the midwest brotherhood stop the lat Super Mutants wave pretty easily. Depending on the ending, they end up enlisting for the Brotherhood of steel or exterminated in camps.
Fallout 3 ends with the Brotherhood seizing Washington D.C., Liberty Prime, Enclave technology and choppers. If there are still super mutants in the perimeter six months after that (logically, there shouldn't have been any in the first place, but well), then it would mean that the Brotherhood has officially retreated from the east coast. Which it hasn't.

11 : Robots have personnalities.
Contradiction with : all fallout games.
Speaking about Codsworth, why does he has a conscience ?
Listen, I love codsworth just as the next guy. He's a really cool character, probably one of my favorite. I wouldn't mind if he was a broken toaster randomly blattering nonsense and movie quotes like he did in the pre war intro. But it's one thing to have a personable toaster. It's a different matter all together when my toaster starts to pass moral judgements, like when Codsworth « Likes » or « dislikes » my actions or start crying about his boredom, developping loyalty towards Paladin Danse or expressing grief for my family. Or even straight up hating me.

Listen, he's a prewar domestic robot, made available to the middle class. He's not exactly the definition of an advanced, military AI, right ?
Well, that's a shame, because military Ais are the only ones who developped a personality, in Fallout's history, and this process only took place years AFTER the war. And let's look at them : they're huge. We are talking about a building sized terminal using a ridiculously powerful CPU to even function. If an IA needs to move, it needs a human brain to do so. A human brain. You know, a CPU so powerful that even our own engineers cannot even imagine a computer that would come close to it.

These intelligent machines are ZAX 1.2, a huge computer located in the glow who plays chess with himself. There is Skynet in the Sierra Army Depot, whose personality is very cold and limited. There are the robobrains and the Think Tank variants, who use human brains to feel emotions. And there's John Henry Eden in Fallout 3. And that's it. These are the only machines with a personality in the entire Fallout universe. Even the calculator, which is the most advanced robot of the whole pre war era, has the mind of an excel sheet.

And yet, a domestic, cheap robot, has developped WAY more sentience and personality than anyone of these artificial intelligences. Does Codsworth use a human brain ? No. Does his CPU has the size of a building ? No. Does his OS is as advanced as a military IA ? No. Then how has he become sentient enough to developp a moral compass and emotions ?

« Eyebots » were sentient too, you may say. Remember how Ed-E showed grief in Lonesome Road everytime you mention its creator. True enough. And true, eyebots were indeed a pre-war invention.
But Ed-E was a post-war prototype, which, unlike its little floating comrades, was built using transistors, a technology that didn't exist when Codsworth was made, and the very POST WAR engineers were ASTONISHED at Ed-E having a personality. Which means that even the greatest minds of the post war Enclave viewed an intelligent robot as something rare, extraordinary and unexpected. How to explain that, if a domestic, cheap butler was way more « sentient » than Ed-E before the war ?
Last edited by mithraP; Jun 22, 2018 @ 4:14am
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Showing 1-15 of 2,735 comments
If it is broken beyond repair you might as well give up on it then.
Frostbringer Jan 20, 2016 @ 7:32am 
Damn dude,

Great write-up. I do hope your profession relates to maintaining historical references, or at least you need to start exploring that field as a profession.
JocularJosh Jan 20, 2016 @ 7:34am 
I just read a few of them, while ALOT of them are pointless anyway number 19 was the best.
That is not a contradiction with anything.
Your argument is that because the other guys don't have a teleporter the institute can't have one either.
What kinda logic is that?
Patrykblack7 Jan 20, 2016 @ 7:37am 
Well preety much about FEV was broken in FO3
mithraP Jan 20, 2016 @ 7:42am 
RacistCoffee : no, no, I may have expressed the point badly... It's the exact contrary. I mean that if the institute has a teleporter, any faction as advanced as they are (such as the enclave, the Shis, Hubologists or the calculator) would also have had one at some point, which would have changed the whole fallout history. Which means that the lore is pretty much twisted by this litteral "deus ex machina". As for the rest, my points may seem pointless, but they are still fundamental to the older fallouts, which Bethesda pretends to know (enough to produce a prequel). They don't make fanfiction, they decide of the franchise's future. It would require a basic understanding of the said franchise's lore, even if it consists in "pointless" things, don't you think?

Jack Frost : thanks ^^ no, I'm just a regular fan, who casually played the first Fallouts. And this is the problem : Bethesda claims to be made of fans such as myself, and yet, they managed to simply forget all these basic lore elements, despite having the money to hire professional writers. This is pretty scary, in fact.
Atma Jan 20, 2016 @ 7:44am 
It seems like your real issue is w/ Fallout 3, as the vast majority of your list talks about things that were derived directly from Fallout 3 and continued in 4.

Also, Bethesda isn't Black Isle. Now they are creating their own lore and that is just how it is when you own the rights.
JocularJosh Jan 20, 2016 @ 7:49am 
Originally posted by mithraP:
RacistCoffee : no, no, I may have expressed the point badly... It's the exact contrary. I mean that if the institute has a teleporter, any faction as advanced as they are (such as the enclave, the Shis, Hubologists or the calculator) would also have had one at some point, which would have changed the whole fallout history. Which means that the lore is pretty much twisted by this litteral "deus ex machina". As for the rest, my points may seem pointless, but they are still fundamental to the older fallouts, which Bethesda pretends to know (enough to produce a prequel). They don't make fanfiction, they decide of the franchise's future. It would require a basic understanding of the said franchise's lore, even if it consists in "pointless" things, don't you think?

Jack Frost : thanks ^^ no, I'm just a regular fan, who casually played the first Fallouts. And this is the problem : Bethesda claims to be made of fans such as myself, and yet, they managed to simply forget all these basic lore elements, despite having the money to hire professional writers. This is pretty scary, in fact.
Oh, that explains that, sorry for the confusion there :D


Originally posted by Atma:
It seems like your real issue is w/ Fallout 3, as the vast majority of your list talks about things that were derived directly from Fallout 3 and continued in 4.

Also, Bethesda isn't Black Isle. Now they are creating their own lore and that is just how it is when you own the rights.
This is the "pointless" part.
Bethesda is building their own lore now.
Patrykblack7 Jan 20, 2016 @ 7:51am 
Also some points are wrong (in my opinion)
With Caps have in mind that NCR was producing their money BUT its dont get popular outside California (in New Vegas one of Sloan miner says that the exchange caps for NCR money isnt good idea) and since in Commonwealth isnt such a faction like NCR they still used Caps
Also when MAxson get possition was before Fallout;NV I think (can by wrong)
With FEV its somekind funny cuz
All East supermutants are 100% idiots which means that East FEV makes people idiot unlike West FEV which makes supermutants like normal people
I agree in point of jet
I can understand that they could trade and have recipe of it
But Pre-War drug?
mithraP Jan 20, 2016 @ 7:56am 
Atma : sure, and it would be fine. I have zero problems with Bethesda, or any studio, taking over a franchise a giving it a new direction. That's actually the best thing that can happen to an old game/movie/book etc. In fact, I was eager to discover the new things Bethesda added to the lore (I may don't like the elder scrolls game, but I find their universe interesting, so why not?). But their only original creations (such as the institute) rarely make sense, and for the rest, it's awkwardly put together for nostalgia, even if it completely breaks the universe's logic. They don't comprehend the lore they now control (despite being simple), and this is what saddens me.
Atma Jan 20, 2016 @ 7:58am 
Originally posted by mithraP:
Atma : sure, and it would be fine. I have zero problems with Bethesda, or any studio, taking over a franchise a giving it a new direction. That's actually the best thing that can happen to an old game/movie/book etc. In fact, I was eager to discover the new things Bethesda added to the lore (I may don't like the elder scrolls game, but I find their universe interesting, so why not?). But their only original creations (such as the institute) rarely make sense, and for the rest, it's awkwardly put together for nostalgia, even if it completely breaks the universe's logic. They don't comprehend the lore they now control (despite being simple), and this is what saddens me.

Oh, I understand the frustration when something you love is constantly being ret-conned, but when there are lores like Star Wars, Warcraft, etc out there that've been retconned into an almost indistinguishable mess from the originals, I guess I'm just getting used to it.
I can forgive a lot of these really. Caps I can forgive simply because of the backlash there would be if caps -weren't- the currency. If Bethesda made a new money system for Fallout 3 or 4, all of the old fallout fans would be screeching about their currency making no sense, just like they do now. There's really no pleasing people with that one.

As for Jet, Chris "I don't like kids in my playground" Avellone claims it was a typo cause it goes against his bible, but there is a bit in Fallout 2 where it suggested Jet is pre-war, and that Myron is basically remaking the recipe. The Khans made a nw Jet in NV as well.

Ghouls I cannot forgive. I had no idea they couldn't run, but their immortality, lack of needs from basic human functions, the fact they can have hair now, all irks me. That and the fact that ferals are now just zombies.

The only lore I know of with Deathclaws is that they were a pre-war experiment like Mole-rats. It makes sense for them to be everywhere, for there would have been multiple labs racing one another to make these bio-weapons. Talking deathclaws were an enclave experiment and were wiped out.

The lore for why radscorpions are everywhere, is that emperor scorpions were very popular pets pre-war. What I wanna know, is why cats exist again? What next, horses?

As for Super Mutants, the east coast are made with a different FEV strain. While it makes no sense at all for the Institute to make Super Mutants and then throw them out into the wasteland, it makes sense that MIT would have their hands on the FEV virus. Hell, it'd make sense for any major lab to have it really. IIRC they were trying to find a cure for it after it got out and was effecting civilians.


As for the irradiated GECK in Florida, IIRC that only effected Florida, not the entire east coast. DC's geck was fine, DC, as much as a hellhole it is, has a giant source of pure clean water that the Brotherhood controls. Honestly, with all of that water, Bethesda could have made the BoS have their own currency backed by the water, or their own tech vaults. Or at least had the water backed caps system the old fallouts had, instead of just 'everybody just uses caps'.
mithraP Jan 20, 2016 @ 8:03am 
☭Patrykblack7☭: yeah, but still using caps after two centuries ? Fallout isn't about struggling for survival, it's about how a civilization deals with the problems of the past in a new context. If the series was in the hands of a professional writer who values lore and realism more than fan service, there wouldn't be caps anywhere. There would be a central bank. I mean, how long after the plague did the banks started to make business again ?

Yeah, but the BOS is destroyed way before New Vegas. Maxson could have never received approval from the main chapter, even as a teenager.

Yeah, you can actually find jet in pre war stashes and in vaults. Also, a monitor somewhere mentions a delivery of psycho and jet, before the bombs fell. Which is... well. If that happened in the movie business, the writer would have trouble finding work again. Unless he's the writer of LOST or promotheus.
Rambo First Blunt Jan 20, 2016 @ 8:05am 
Just enjoy the game. Jesus Christ.
Stanley Jan 20, 2016 @ 8:06am 
Pretty good points altogether. Hopefully Bethesda tones down the exaggeration of star trek sci-fi and stick to the main plot. Black isle had it all tidy and coherent and in the same time rational and quite logical.

then again black isle aimed for a certain audience and I don't think Bethesda has the balls to do the same.
Patrykblack7 Jan 20, 2016 @ 8:09am 
Originally posted by mithraP:
☭Patrykblack7☭: yeah, but still using caps after two centuries ? Fallout isn't about struggling for survival, it's about how a civilization deals with the problems of the past in a new context. If the series was in the hands of a professional writer who values lore and realism more than fan service, there wouldn't be caps anywhere. There would be a central bank. I mean, how long after the plague did the banks started to make business again ?

Yeah, but the BOS is destroyed way before New Vegas. Maxson could have never received approval from the main chapter, even as a teenager.

Yeah, you can actually find jet in pre war stashes and in vaults. Also, a monitor somewhere mentions a delivery of psycho and jet, before the bombs fell. Which is... well. If that happened in the movie business, the writer would have trouble finding work again. Unless he's the writer of LOST or promotheus.
Well Bethseda have problem with one part
"rebulding civilazation"
Since Fallout 3 they spawning in the centre of Washington and Boston
Raiders,supermutants and addding 2,3 cities
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